Being "discreet" and "sheeple friendly" is part of the problem

[mikemck]

Why bother being "discreet" if what you are carrying is legal?

I read things like the following all the time:
"I need a sheeple friendly knife", or "I need something discreet", or some such, and I am beginning to understand that this kind of thinking is part of the problem that we knife owners face today.

Of course the general public is going to cringe when they see someone pull out a fixed blade knife, because it's very unusual these days! It's something they don't see, even though it might be perfectly legal to carry one. Of course they get bug eyed when you pull out your "tactical folder", because the knife owning segment of the population, in general, is very careful to sheild the "sheeple" from such things. Several people even carry several knives, and which one they use depends on where they are! Never mind that all of the knives they are carrying are perfectly legal...



If "sheeple" are most of the problem, the people that pander to them are the other part, it would seem to me.

While it may be the general population that has made it taboo to carry a knife, it's the knife owners who have not only let it happen but continue to perpetuate the belief that people who do carry knives are whackos or some such. This being the case, maybe the term "sheeple" needs to be more clearly understood.

Understand, I myself am also guilty of this behavior, but I think it's about time to put and end to it now, while there is still time.

 

[92degrees]

Ummm, I see your point, but I usually carry more knife than I would need. A few weeks ago I took out a 3.6" custom to open a box and a coworker (who's usually quite casual about my knives) made a big point out of asking if I thought that knife was big enough for the job. It drew a lot of unwanted attenion. I get a lot of pleasure out of carrying that knife, but I can see why someone would also have a small slipjoint or such to use in front of people.

I really have no idea what my employers policy is on blade length. I don't want to find out or create a situation where they have to scratch their heads and create a policy. I'd rather be discreet.

I've slowly "educated" the people around me and they really don't even blink at anything I carry, but it's the bystander walking by that could make things difficult for me.

 

[SDouglas]

There is a difference between pandering to sheeple and avoiding needless antagonism of them.

The fact is that most laws and policies restricting knives are born out of Fear. Unfortunately fear is irrational.

If you point out to someone who is afraid that the knife you are carrying is legal they will react by trying to get it made illegal.

On the other hand if you try to be discrete and they know you they will forget that you have a knife that scares them.

 

[Jameson]

Originally posted by 92degrees:
If "sheeple" are most of the problem, the people that pander to them are the other part, it would seem to me.

While it may be the general population that has made it taboo to carry a knife, it's the knife owners who have not only let it happen but continue to perpetuate the belief that people who do carry knives are whackos or some such. This being the case, maybe the term "sheeple" needs to be more clearly understood.

-----------------------------------------------

Well said here. Guilty as charged.

JC

 

[OwenM]

I actually started writing a detailed response (rant), but realized it would take at least an hour, and gave up.
I could write a book on how much I agree with you, Mike.

 

[Starfish]

Originally posted by 92degrees
I really have no idea what my employers policy is on blade length. I don't want to find out or create a situation where they have to scratch their heads and create a policy. I'd rather be discreet.

Same for me here - actually, I believe my employer has no policy on blade length, just a general policy regarding weapons. But, as you say, I don't want to create a situation where they have to make new policy

I do have to say, however, that the people I work with are pretty good about it - except when I start flipping the balisong. That clicking-clacking tends to annoy them

Matthew

 

[mikemck]

Originally posted by 92degrees
Ummm, I see your point, but I usually carry more knife than I would need. A few weeks ago I took out a 3.6" custom to open a box and a coworker (who's usually quite casual about my knives) made a big point out of asking if I thought that knife was big enough for the job.

There is your problem right there! Do you really not see it? It's not a question of how much knife you need, yet you have let them foster in you the mindset that it is a question of need.
Does your coworker need the gas guzzling SUV he problably tools around town in? Does he need the expensize watch he wears? In short, does he actually need everything that he owns, or does he just like to have it?

It drew a lot of unwanted attenion. I get a lot of pleasure out of carrying that knife, but I can see why someone would also have a small slipjoint or such to use in front of people.

It draws attention because it's unusal...It's perfectly legal, and yet you have let the "sheeple" in your workplace dictate what you do.

I really have no idea what my employers policy is on blade length. I don't want to find out or create a situation where they have to scratch their heads and create a policy. I'd rather be discreet.

First, you should be well aware of ANY policies concerning knives in your workplace. If you disagree with the policies, you should work to change them.
If there are no policies, you should carry and use whatever knife you want, and if the opportunity arises you should seek to make yourself part of the decision making process concerning policies in regards to knives.

If you do not excersize your rights, you will find that they will quickly atrophy, and then you won't have to worry about carrying a knife at all. You will also find that it is much easier to retain a right than it is to get it back once it's gone.

I've slowly "educated" the people around me and they really don't even blink at anything I carry, but it's the bystander walking by that could make things difficult for me.

Educating the people around you is good, but why should you care if they do "blink" at what you are carrying? Do they care what you think about what they drive, or where they live, or what they wear?
Yeah, maybe things could get difficult for you, but damn, you make it sound like the earth will tilt on it's axis if you experience a bit of discomfort! It's your right to carry a knife! And you most certainly don't have to justify it to the people around you.

If we let the "sheeple" herd us around, it's time to question who the "sheeple" really are.

 

[Richard]

Im with Owen on this, I could also have written a long post on how much I agree with you Mike, but you said it so well.

 

[mikemck]

Originally posted by SDouglas
There is a difference between pandering to sheeple and avoiding needless antagonism of them.

Needless antagonizing? By simply using your knife? I don't think you are ever going to get the point of this thread, honestly.
I'm not trying to belittle you, but if you think using your perfectly legal knife around someone is "needlessly antagonizing" them, there is just no hope.

If you point out to someone who is afraid that the knife you are carrying is legal they will react by trying to get it made illegal.

And you can then work to stop it from becoming illegal. It's called standing up for your rights. The only reason it will become illegal is if just sit back and let it happen.

Much better to use your knife in secret, and constantly worry that you will be "outed", right?

On the other hand if you try to be discrete and they know you they will forget that you have a knife that scares them.

Again, who are the sheeple? Who is living in fear here?

 

[mikemck]

Again, I myself have been guilty of being discreet, and not wanting to call attention to myself.
Hell, for the longest time, I had no interest in fixed blade knives, because I would not feel comfortable using them around anyone...They might look at me strangely, or ask me why I had it, or some other nonsense. I might have to actually defend my right to own and carry one.

If the right to own and carry knives is important to you, it's time to excersize that right, and quit letting the sheeple herd you around.

I can promise you that they won't be herding me anymore.

 

[92degrees]

It's not that I disagree with you in theory, it's that I disagree with you in practice. While it may well be my right to carry whatever I want, I positively guarantee you that if I made a habit out of making other folks ("sheeple" if that term makes you happy) uncomfortable, then the rules around here would be changed to make sure that the masses were comfortable and my "rights" were curtailed.

Don't believe it? I work on a campus in Massachusetts -- believe it. They can tell 21-year-olds that they can't drink in their private rooms. They can tell folks that they have to be 25' from a door or window to smoke. They can tell me I can't carry a "weapon" to work.

Hey, I'm Union and so is my staff. Our contract gives us the "right" to two breaks a day. We used to take our breaks on the front steps of the building -- hey it was our right, and there were no rules against it. We had a great time. Conspicuously. Well, folks got to talking about us sittin on the steps. Guess what, we were told to move it inside. We had a hoot inside the lobby. Folks walking through got to talking. Now we break in a dark little room in the basement. That's what was strongly suggested, and hey, layoffs are coming.

You don't think the administrators here would respond if someone said they saw me tearing through mail with a big knife? You're wrong. While it may be my right, it would of course be their right to tell me they didn't think it appropriate and I should "do what I think is best." Wink, wink.

I LOVE AND CHERISH KNIVES.

As a kid I was never without one, including school. Try that now. I'm never without one as an adult. But I know full-well that there is no way I could convince folks at work that I need to carry a fixed blade on my belt. Box-cutters open boxes, letter openers open letters, and kitchen knives cut fruit.

I carry a knife for personal pleasure, convenience, and pride of ownership (there are many other reasons) and don't expect on-lookers to care about any of those things.

I applaud you for fighting the good fight the best way you see fit. My choice is to be responsible, share information about knives with people I interact with, and to get through every day using my tools without getting in anyone's face about it.

 

[92degrees]

My post crossed with a few others.

I don't feel herded by sheeple -- I carry what I want. I don't worry about what they think -- because I don't give them a reason to think.

Hey, I'm pretty clear on what the masses think. Most of us here have a pretty good idea that many folks don't understand our interest and reliance on knives.

Exercising our rights is not going to change what most of these people feel about knives. It's going to be a constant reminder, to them, that they have an issue with our knives.

I guess I just don't have that much faith in the idea that "they'll come around."

 

[logos]

Issues like this are always tough and there are no easy answers. I
think that all the replies were lucid and well thought out. I think
the best thig that we can do is educate the media brainwashed public
via such organizations as AKTI, and by letting those around you see
that you are a normal person and aclimate them to reality. The
legality of carrying any weapon does not really, at this point,have
any bearing on the "shock" that you encounter from a very ignorant
general populace. You must keep in mind that there are very liberal
powers that be that have very dilligently confinced people that if
you were to let the goverment confiscate all guns and knives that all
crime would immediatly caese,when as you know,that nothing could be
further from the truth.This is what we need to work on changing and
not be upset by the fact that we simply can't carry what we please.
JMHO!!

 

[The Tourist]

Where I work, I can carry whatever I like. My boss is a knut, and we can even have new knives sent to us here so UPS doesn't have to leave them out in the open on our porches. I am VERY careful what I carry. Why tick people off? I have larger knives at home, and I have EDC's which fit into an office setting. I think a guy who whips out a bowie to open the mail is sending an "in-your-face" message.

Remember the "black gun" debate? Sheeple must think a Kalshnikov has different moving parts than a Browning BAR with classy California walnut. It looked bad, hey, now we have thumb-hole stocks. That did us a lot of good. You could cite muscle cars, "The Blackboard Jungle," ape-hanger handle bars--the list goes on.

My EDC used to be a mini-SOCOM with a black-ti clip point. I got one with a purple handle. Even the scaredy-cat women in the office thought it was cute, and it was still a Microtech.

 

[mikemck]

Originally posted by 92degrees
Hey, I'm Union and so is my staff. Our contract gives us the "right" to two breaks a day. We used to take our breaks on the front steps of the building -- hey it was our right, and there were no rules against it. We had a great time. Conspicuously. Well, folks got to talking about us sittin on the steps. Guess what, we were told to move it inside. We had a hoot inside the lobby. Folks walking through got to talking. Now we break in a dark little room in the basement. That's what was strongly suggested, and hey, layoffs are coming.

Do you not see what happened there, twice? The same thing will happen with your knives, sooner or later.
You don't have to be conspicuous when you use them, they don't have to be "tactical" and they don't have to be illegal; they only have to be knives, and someone is going to try to keep you from having them.
By being "discreet" and trying to be inconspicuous, you just make it easier for them to take it away from you, and you make it easier for others to go along with it.

You don't seem to understand people in general. You and your staff tried to stay out of the way and just enjoy your breaks, but that is not good enough for most people, and the same thing will happen with your knives.

As a kid I was never without one, including school. Try that now. I'm never without one as an adult. But I know full-well that there is no way I could convince folks at work that I need to carry a fixed blade on my belt. Box-cutters open boxes, letter openers open letters, and kitchen knives cut fruit.

How do you think this change happened? Again, you make the point, but you don't seem to see it.
The problems we face today, the stigma, is because knife owners have knuckled under to real or percieved pressure from society to be "discreet" or "sheeple friendly".

Don't carry a big huge knife at work if it's not practical for you. If work is just a losing battle for you, leave well enough alone..you know your workplace better than anyone here.

But what about when your out & about, in public? Do you carry exactly what you want to carry then, and discreet be damned?

I carry a knife for personal pleasure, convenience, and pride of ownership (there are many other reasons) and don't expect on-lookers to care about any of those things.

It does not matter why you carry a knife, and it does not matter what anyone else cares about either. It's your right, and if you don't stand up for it you can't resonably expect anyone else to do it for you.
We don't have to justify to anyone why we carry a knife, because it's our right..it's as simple as that.
That of course will change if we continue down the path we have set for ourselves.

I applaud you for fighting the good fight the best way you see fit. My choice is to be responsible, share information about knives with people I interact with, and to get through every day using my tools without getting in anyone's face about it.

Be responsible? Why do you use that term?

Sometimes you have to get in peoples face, but more often you will find that they will get in your face, just as they did about your breaks.

 

[mikemck]

Originally posted by Ichabod Poser
Where I work, I can carry whatever I like. My boss is a knut, and we can even have new knives sent to us here so UPS doesn't have to leave them out in the open on our porches. I am VERY careful what I carry. Why tick people off? I have larger knives at home, and I have EDC's which fit into an office setting. I think a guy who whips out a bowie to open the mail is sending an "in-your-face" message.

You can now, but what happens when someone complains about it? Are you and your boss prepared to defend your right to carry what you want, regardless of the setting?

"Why tick people off"? A better question is, "why should they be ticked off"?
It is none of their business what knife you carry, anymore than it is your business what kind of car they drive

My EDC used to be a mini-SOCOM with a black-ti clip point. I got one with a purple handle. Even the scaredy-cat women in the office thought it was cute, and it was still a Microtech.

Your EDC "used to be" and now it's "more sheeple friendly". You don't understand it, but you have eroded a bit more of your right to carry a knife, although you think you have won. See, now your happy just to be able to carry a knife, and nevermind that it has a purple handle, it's a Microtech....you really fooled them, eh?

 

[Paul Work]

Mike, I agree with you in theory, but I gotta stand with 92degrees on this one. If we fly in the face of society, society will eventually kick our a$$es. I work in a factory. We are not "allowed" to use "personal"knives for "safety" reasons. This rule is generally overlooked, but if you get cut your gonna hang for it. Company insurance will not cover it. The company has a rule against carrying concealed weopons on company property. Nobody can give me a straight answer as to what a "concealed weopon" is. I choose to remain discreet.

Paul

 

[mikemck]

The general attitude in this thread is seriously disheartening.

The general attitude seems to be one of "enjoy it while it lasts", and "keep everyone happy and hope they don't take my knives".

Look at where knife owners were 20 years ago, and look at where we are today. Big difference, and it did not happen overnight. It happened slowly..it's insidious.

We lose a piece here and a piece there, and it's not too unpalatable because it's just small bites, and it's just a "compromise really", so it's no big deal.

Give up your black mini socom and buy a purple one just to make someone happy, and you are on the slippery slope, and you will find it much harder to stop than it was to start.

 

[92degrees]

mikemck,

You are clearly passionate about this issue and I have nothing but respect for you and your opinion. You seem to feel that if I don't stand up for my right to carry what's legal, and do it conspicuously, then you may lose some of your rights. My concern is that if people make a big effort to conspicuously use and carry knives, and public perception and sentiment doesn't change, then we will all lose some of our rights.

I see we are winning the war against being prohibited from carrying nail-clippers on airplanes, right? Are we making progress? Perhaps we should start there. I was once, at 9 years old, prohibited from taking a boomerang home on a plane. Makes sense, huh? I didn't realize I should have been fighting the fight all those decades ago.

I think YOU are missing my point with the story of breaks. We DID NOT try to stay out of folks way and enjoy our breaks. We basically screamed "we're entitled to breaks and we're going to take them!" Well, we got ours, as you say, twice.

How did we get where we are with knives banned in schools? SDouglas hit the nail on head "Unfortunately fear is irrational."

I understood your original post, really. I've certainly noticed the trend of "I need a sheeple friendly knife", or "I need something discreet." But, I also notice a lot of "what knife has the biggest pucker factor?" etc. Those posts scare me as a knife person too.

I get to fish in what amounts to a national wildlife refuge. Why? Because it's not specifically illegal to fish there. So, I tread lightly, and I don't make it into a big deal. Perhaps I should make my fishing there a real scene -- make sure everyone sees me? Why? To assert and protect my rights, or to have them taken away? Where is the greatest risk? I'm confident I know.

Ever hear the expression "Past performance is no guarantee of future results?" I think about that a lot with regard to knives. Just because it's legal for me to do it doesn't mean I should -- and risk that things are changed to prevent me from doing it tomorrow. THAT was the point of my "break story."

I disagree with part of your assessment about where we are these days. Sure, in Jr. High I used to carry a knife on my belt -- lots of kids did. These days I carry a bigger knife clipped in my pocket or IWB. Have I "lost ground?" I don't really think so. Pulling that particular knife out in front of a secretary isn't going to get me anywhere better, but using a small slipjoint instead may protect where I am.

 

[mnblade]

>"Why bother being "discreet" if what you are carrying is legal?"

====================================

Why? Because my position as a gainfully employed breadwinner for my family is FAR more important to me than winning a battle here or there in the war vs. the sheeple.
I work in an office and carry a small two-bladed pocketknife. I use it wherever and whenever I need to, sheeple be damned. It takes care of any tasks that arise in an office setting - but so would my Endura. However, if I were to tote around the Endura or something of that size, it would likely bring <i>negative</i> attention to me. Something that becomes less and less attractive as the economy gets shakier and shakier. Life is often about choices, and I choose to keep earning paychecks so I can pay my rent, buy food for the family, etc. Knives are a hobby - providing for my family is job No. 1.