Best Outdoor Blade Steel?..................

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Hateman

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Oct 28, 2000
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I'm planning to get a knife (a Small Bowie, 4 inch blade) from DMK Knives for outdoor use. It will not be a safe queen and I want to use it for everything outdoors from chopping wood to skinning large animals. He offers the following blade steels for his knives: D2, S30V, S90V, 440C, ATS-34. Of those, which one would make the best for hard use, ease of sharpening and best edge retention over a 3 day camping/hiking trek? I'm currently leaning towards either 440C or ATS-34. Any opinions or past experiences on this would be appreciated.
 
Hateman said:
..for hard use, ease of sharpening and best edge retention ....
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For that application, I would pick in order from worse to least worse; S90V, S30V/D2, ATS-34/440C, and really suggest you look for another steel, optimally not a stainless one.

-Cliff
 
I would suggest a straight carbon such as 1095, O1 or 5160.
Scott

Edit to add: If you are set on the steels you mentioned, D2 would be my top choice.
 
I agree with Scott, a simple carbon steel is what I would choose, like 01, if I wanted more toughness I would go with L6. However, you are limited by your steel choice by the maker, nothing wrong with that people prefer to work in different materials, have spent time and money developing heat treat protocols, gain the advantage of scale by buying in quantity and so forth.

Given your choice of steels, I would pick D2. It is not as tough as spring steels, but you specified a 4" blade, which is not a real hard impact tool anyways.

Ease of sharpening can be addressed through proper geoemtry, keep the edge thin and there will be little metal to remove. As well, a D2 balde should be able to keep an edge for long enought o get you through a 3 day hike, even with pretty constant use.
 
I ranked them basically in order of ease of machining, the slashed ones are very close.

The biggest issues with sharpening for chopping and general heavy wood work is inclusions, if you just cut clean wood, pretty much even a cheap machete will stay sharp a long time.

The big problems are glances causing you to hit something other than the wood, or a really bad pin knot which can turn the edge, or hitting fencing which is overgrown, or a piece of spiked wood, which will really brighten your day.

I was watching A Timbersports competition awhile ago when one of the guys was using the large saws cut right into an old spike. That is pretty bad on a $150 knife, it sucks mightly on a $1500 saw.

S30V and D2 are similar in machinability based on sharpening a few customs and various production blades (Sorg, Dozier, Heafner, Swamp Rat, and Spyderco) significantly lower than ATS-34/440C.

S90 is really low though, the jump from it to S30V is way bigger than from S30V to ATS-34. I really like S90V in fine blades but would really avoid it in that kind of knife because if the edge was damaged it would just take too long to repair.

I like D2 a lot as well, but again for different things. I took 60 lbs of fresh cod last night, split them in half, then steaked a couple, 36 cuts in total right through the backbone with a Safari Skinner (D2). The knife was still shaving at the end and aggressively cutting the flesh.

In the above I would probably get the S90V version, optomize it for the skinning and other light work and carry a GB mini for chopping. The hardness is critical, S90V works best really hard, and D2 at 58 HRC isn't going to be significantly better than 440C at 58 HRC.

-Cliff
 
I know it wasn't a choice, but what about 154CM? It seems that benchmade makes pretty good knives in this steel.
 
I agree with Cliff and Scott. (It was really fun to type that)

I agree with Scott, D2 of the ones you have listed. S30V if you're worried about rust or going to be doing lots of food preparation with it and the eventual patina on D2 would bother you or people in your group.

I agree with Cliff in that you ought to consider a GB mini to go with the knife.
 
I would suggest high carbon steel.
For me the most inportant part of an outdoor knife is to be able to sharpen the thing without having to come home to a jig set up. Just pack a med to small stone and you'll be fine.
I'd recomend 0-1, 5160, 1095, 1080, 1075...ect.

Keep those steels oiled and you will love the patina that you get after a few years :D
 
mathman said:
I know it wasn't a choice, but what about 154CM? It seems that benchmade makes pretty good knives in this steel.
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154CM is the same as ATS-34. The difference between different heat treats of ATS-34 and 154CM is probably bigger than between 154CM and ATS-34.

154CM was a steel originally developed for jet engine fan blades and contains Molybdenium to allow it to operate at higher temperatures. Bob Loveless is credited to have pioneered this steel in the cutlery industry. After 154CM got to be obsolete in the jet engine industry, it got to be hard to find and essentially disappeared from the market, nobody in the US was willing to cater to such a small market such as prime cutlery. So a few knifemakers approached Hitachi steel who agreed to produce a steel which was essentially identical in composition and named it ATS-34. Later US specialty steel companies picked up 154CM again and as far as I know both are now equally available. For a while ATS-34 was credited to be a better steel, but only because QC was poor on 154CM. But those times seem to be long over, both steels being pretty much exchangable.

ATS-34 got refined for the cutlery industry, removing the no longer needed Molybdenium while adding mainly Cobalt which was called ATS-55. Whether it was really an improvement is questionable. Some people love their ATS-34/154CM others prefer ATS-55. Crucible and a Foundery in Sweden are now producing powder metal 154CM which is called CPM 154 (the one made by Crucible that is), which seems to have closed the gap to S30V, but the technical data available is rather incomplete.
 
Don't think I'd care to be chopping much wood with a 4" blade. But if I were going to try to make do with one I'd opt for a carbon steel as others have suggested. You'll need the toughness for batoning and other stuff where a 4" is kind of outmatched by the job.
 
Given only those alloys to choose from I'd pick D2. I like the edge I get with D2 better than ATS-34, S30V, or 440C. S90V makes the most sense when it's really hard and then it is hard to sharpen and rather brittle for your application. If you really expect to do much chopping with the D2 I would get it hardened around 57 RC like the Turner Uluchet. If I didn't really expect much of that I would get it hardened into the 58-60 RC region. If you want the blade to be stainless I would go for S30V in the same hardness ranges. If he gets his S30V heat treated by Paul Bos I would look particularly favorably on the S30V.
 
I know it's pretty obvious, but when it comes to chopping wood, an axe works much better ;) . The fireside friend by estwing is a really good tool for this.

And thanks to HoB for the very informative response...
 
Thanks for everyone's replies. When I meant chopping wood, I meant chopping small branches; nothing bigger than that. I erred and should have specified that in my original post.

After thinking and reading the posts, I'm close to choosing D2 as the steel for the Bowie. Some suggest carbon blades and that steel was my first thought for use, yet DMK, to my knowledge, only uses the steels mentioned in my original post. I do hope to make an order from Razorback for a rugged carbon blade in time.

I've had good experiences with D2 blades (BM 806, Dozier Thorn, BM Grip) with none of the chipping mentioned in past threads. Edge retention is notable for my D2 blades and sharpening is a accomplished easily with just a Sharpmaker. As Mr. Goode suggested, I do plan to carry some small portable set up for sharpening, hence the want for a steel that's relatively easy to sharpen. The other steels, to me, tend to either lose an edge too quickly, ATS-34, or have proven a pain for me to sharpen (S30V).

Again thanks for the replies and informative links.
 
Man, there are lots of great knives in that size range. I like the Swamprat knives and Cold Steel offerings n that size. They are strong and sharp. Also the Bark River knives are awesome and made of great steel. Don't worry so much about the type of steel, just worry if you can't sharpen it. Wipe the blade down with tuff cloth and you should be good to go. If it comes with a coating you should be good for the time you are going. All steels rust, including stainless steels. ATS-34 is barely stainless and it will rust, but it is a very good steel. 440C is one of my favorite stainless steels and 52100 is one of my favorite carbon steels. THe old SOG Tridents came with 440C the new ones cme with AUS8 and cost less.
 
440C, can be resharpened in the field while still holding an edge well (despite the steel snobs say). It's also plenty tough and rust-resistant, possibly the best all-round steels available.
 
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