BK 9 vs Battle Rat

[Andrew Lynch]

I got a Swamp Rat Battle Rat a few months ago and Cliff was kind enough to lend me his BK9 a few months ago also (before he got to use it). By now, I've had more than enough time to evaluate these two knives.

First, some specs:

Becker Combat Bowie 9

Length, Overall: 14.5"
Blade Length: 9.25"
Blade Thickness: .210"
Grind Height (to edge): 1.5"
Blade Material: 0170-6C
Handle Length: 5.25"
Handle Thickness: (avg) 1.125"
Handle Material: GV6H
Weight: 14.9 oz
Sheath Material: Propex Nylon w/Kydex Insert

SwampRat Battle Rat

Length, Overall: 14.25"
Blade Length: 9.25"
Blade Thickness: .250"
Grind Height (to edge): 1.4"
Blade Material: SR-101 (differentially tempered)
Handle Length: 5"
Handle Thickness: (avg) 0.75"
Handle Material: Resiprene C
Weight: 15 oz
Sheath Material: Cordura w/Kydex Insert

Here are some comparison pics (along with some other knives):

http://members4.clubphoto.com/a318774/1101600/guest.phtml

These knives fulfill very similar if not identical roles. Whether that be camp knife, combat knife, etc., they are in the same niche. However, there are some differences.

The BK9's Balance point is about an inch in front of the handle material, fairly neutral. The Battle Rat's balance point is about 1.7" from the handle material, and makes the BR more geared toward heavy chopping.

The handles are very different. Which one you like will probably make a big difference as to which knife you prefer. The BK9's is much wider and a little larger. It is made of a hard plastic that is not too grippy (this has been discussed a lot before). It is contoured pretty well, although it is a tad squarish, and its thickness spreads the load very nicely. The holes for the screws are somewhat abrasive. The main thing I don't like about these handles is the rear part. It is "knobby" and makes choking down on the grip for heavy chopping uncomfortable. Overall, IMHO a nice handle that could be improved with more contouring and a more aggressive texture (minus the holes).
I made new handle scales out of wood for my PM as you can see here:

http://members4.clubphoto.com/a318774/1036231/guest.phtml

You'll have to ignore the Knight Light (good luck ) in the album. I've filled the holes with epoxy by now, BTW.

The Battle Rat has a thinner handle that is of a great material called Resiprene C. This stuff feels like a hard car tire and seems to hardly ever give blisters. The handle is nicely contoured and the texture is about perfect. It allows one to choke down comfortably. The only thing I would like to change on this handle would be to increase its thickness to that of the BK9's.

The sheaths are quite similar; pretty nice. They have a kydex insert and a nice pocket for firesteels, sharpening stuff, etc. However, the BK9's sheath has major flaw. The knife rattles like crazy!!!! It is lowd, incessant, and intolerable. However, there are ways to fix this, like stuffing a piece of cloth down there or remolding the kydex tighter. I decided to make a new kydex sheath for it (multi-carry), which can be seen here:

http://members4.clubphoto.com/a318774/1101691/guest.phtml

Now, some miscellaneous stuff. First off, the BK9 has a "hammer pommel". I've never had a use for those things. I use the face or spine of the blade to drive stakes or similar and never crush boulders. Besides, if you miss slightly when hammering with the pommel your hand is in for some damage. However, it doesn't detract from anything, so no problem.

The BK also has a pretty nice thumbramp on its spine. However, the grooves are so deep and wide that it is not very comfortable (in discussing this with RokJok, we decided it was designed for use with gloves). The BK's tip has a false edge leading up to it. This thins the tip down, which looses strength but helps with fine work. However, with a blade this large I would not use its tip for finework. I prefer teh BR's point, which is a strong clip point with a "penetrator tip" (two tiny false edges on top of the tip that make the tip very sharp). The BR's tip is stronger and yet pointier.

The BR has a very nice finger cut-out in its choil that is infinitely useful. It makes fine work many times easier. The BK doesn't have one, which is a big disappointment. Of course, one could add one with a dremel or similar.

The coatings are similarly durable, but the BR probably has the edge. I chop mostly softer wood however, so this isn't a very large issue. BTW, if you remove the coating of the BR, you're rewarded with an awesome temper line!!

The BK's NIB edge was thinner than the BR's, but not by leagues. I thinned down the BR edge until it was about like the BK's, then I did most of the testing comparing the two. Both edges were shaving NIB, but the BK amazed me. The edge was RAZOR sharp.

Now, on to chopping. I could go on about this for a long time, but here's the overview. The BR had more power and beat out the BK in heavy chopping, especially on hard wood. As an example, the BK would, on thick, hard (dead) wood almost bounce off, while the BR would still bite in. The BK has more neutrally balanced and beat out the BR in machete-like chores and small and soft wood. For example, the BK would clear brush with less wrist fatigue than the BR (though both are not really suited to the job). Both were good choppers.

Fine work went to the BR with its great choil, thought he BK didn't fare badly. I could just get more control with less wrist fatigue with the BR.

Both knives seem durable, though the BR is probably significantly ahead of the BK (after seeing the performance videos). The BR is differentially tempered and extremely tough. The BK, however, is far from weak. I used it to split firewood with full swings from a hammer, and, apart from coating damage and a little denting from off blows, was fine.

Edge-holding was comparable, but the BR seemed to hold its edge better. Also, while I didn't do destructive testing, I accidently hit small rocks with both blades. This is only my impression, but the BK's edge didn't seem as durable as the BR's. I only lightly hit a small rock with the BK edge and it dented the edge quite a bit; with the BR it took a more powerful swing to do that. However, no chipping on either, so no problems.

Sharpening was favorable on both, but the BR is unbelieveable! SR-101 ("52100 with kryptonite") takes a razor edge effortlessly. This steel is great for people like me who are not sharpening experts. One can achieve a shaving edge quite easily. Also, the BR's steel responds well to stropping. The BK also sharpens quite easily, though not as well as the BR, and responds well to stropping.

Overall, I would give the Battle Rat the edge for my uses, but it's pretty close. Both knives are very good performers.

Sorry this has taken so long, but I hope this answers some questions.

Any questions, fire away

 

[Mongo]

But one detail, though nit-picky, stood out. You stated that you "thinned down" the edge on the BR. What exactly is "thinning down"? If you are reprofiling the edge, then this changes the parameters of a head to head comparison. Some of us here don't want to (or are too chicken ) to reprofile an edge. I have a BK-9, but have not even seen much less handled the BR. I therefor cannot comment on this competition above my nit-picking. However, I do really like my BK-9.
my .02
Mongo

 

[Danbo]

This is not a bash on the Battle Rat, as I want one of them soon, but I will say the specimens(Battle Rat and Camp Tramp) that I have seen up close have been a little too thick in the edge for my tastes. This probably doesnt mean much, since most knives are way too thick in the edge for my tastes.

 

[Andrew Lynch]

Originally posted by Danbo
This is not a bash on the Battle Rat, as I want one of them soon, but I will say the specimens(Battle Rat and Camp Tramp) that I have seen up close have been a little too thick in the edge for my tastes.

My BR and CT had fairly thick edges NIB compared to what I prefer also. I used a belt sander to thin down the edge on the BR.

Yes, this changes the chopping characteristics of the BR. However, I just wanted to improve the performance of the BR at the time and was not considering a comparison to the BK.

 

[shmoopiebear]

Thanks for the great review! I have been tossing around either picking up a Becker versus a Swamp Rat. There is a quite a significant price difference between the two knife companies. The performance seems to be about the same. The materials are another thing. Hmmmmmmmm... decisions... decisions...

 

[Evolute]

Hi, Andrew,

Could you give some comparative comments specifically in regard to the shock-absorptive nature of the Resiprene-C compared to the more traditionally hard and non-shock absorbing handle on the Becker? Over prolonged, hard chopping, did the BR's shock absorption lead to less fatigue, bruising, pain, etc., and, if it did, did this allow you to swing harder and/or for a longer period of time?

Also on the subject of handles, could you elaborate on why you would change the BR handle to increased thickness?

Thanks.

--Mike

 

[Yojimbo]

Andrew,

A couple points.

IMHO I've always believed the BK9's design is tilted slightly for a more combative role than the BR. Hence the name "Combat Bowie". Some of the things you mentioned in your review further convinces me of this .

The balance point you mentioned allows the BK9 to be very nimble and quick despite it's size and weight. I found it excellent when practicing the hacks, slashes, snap cuts and thrusts used in Bowie style fighting. As you mentioned this property also caused less fatigue when used for long period of time, again this is good for combat. The lack of a choil is another property most combat knives have as opposed to the utility knives. The choil is great for better handling and small jobs but it can be a liablity in combat if it hangs or gets caught in bone, clothing or gear when trying to withdraw it after a thrust. I think the blade and edge geometry are also well suited for combat. I personally like the agressive spine hump it really hangs on when using the sabre grip!

I do agree the handle needs to be roughed up or given some type of texture for a better grip. This is an easy thing to do yourself or better yet get Bill Siegle's G10 grips!

The noisy sheath is also a problem that's easy to take care of. It can be removed and heated in the oven and pressed tighter to eliminate the loose fit and noise. BTW the Kydex sheath you made was really nice!

This not to say the BR, it is the "BATTLE RAT" after all, can't be used in combat but just to make note of some subtle differences between the two.

Either way great review! Now we wait and see what devious things Cliff can put the BK9 through.... I'd be interested to see if the BK9 will also exprience a huge performance gain with a little edge re-profiling like the BK7 in his other reivew!

BTW I already have the BK9 so the BR is next on my big knife purchase list!

Regards,

Chris

 

[Andrew Lynch]

Originally posted by Evolute
Could you give some comparative comments specifically in regard to the shock-absorptive nature of the Resiprene-C compared to the more traditionally hard and non-shock absorbing handle on the Becker? Over prolonged, hard chopping, did the BR's shock absorption lead to less fatigue, bruising, pain, etc., and, if it did, did this allow you to swing harder and/or for a longer period of time?

The shock absorbtion value of the Resiprene is nice, but doesn't make a huge difference IMHO. I didn't really notice much of a difference.

Originally posted by Evolute
Also on the subject of handles, could you elaborate on why you would change the BR handle to increased thickness?

For my hands, a nice thick handle just feels better (of course it depends on other factors also). Thick handles spread the load and shock of chopping. Also, if a handle is too small I find my hand cramps up over time from having to close my hand so much. Thicker handles allow a more natural (or atleast less fatiguing) grip, at least for me.

Chris,

Your absolutely right. The BK9 seems to be more configured to fighting than the BR. I don't know how practical that is for a combat knife, but it explains a lot.

On the subject of thinning the BK9's edge, yes, I believe it would improve performance quite a bit. I wouldn't thin it extremely, however, because damage from an incidental hard contact during heavy chopping may be quite bad.

 

[Evolute]

Thanks, Andrew.

I must say that your experience differs from mine, in this regard. I haven't used the BK9, but I have used the Busse Battle Mistress and the Busse Steel Heart, and, of course, the Swamp Rat Battle Rat. I find that the shock absorbtion does allow me to swing harder (though that is generally not very important), and to chop for longer periods of time.

I would guess that I have more delicate hands than you do, and that this probably accounts for the differnces in our experiences.

Cheers,

Mike

 

[frank k]

Nice review Andrew!

How dose the chopping ability of the two knives compare to that of your Patrol machete?

Did you measure the thickness of the edges and/or the factory edge angles?


Thanks!


-Frank

 

[Andrew Lynch]

Originally posted by Evolute
I would guess that I have more delicate hands than you do, and that this probably accounts for the differnces in our experiences.

I doubt that

For one, shock is rarely a problem in any of my chopping. I usually only chop softer wood. However, when I chop harder and/or dead wood I can tell the difference....and that's when the Resiprene is really nice. Also, if I plan on doing a LOT of chopping I wear gloves, and that helps a lot with shock over time.

Versus the PM? Well, the PM outchops them in penetration. However, it wedges a bit more and its durability worries me. However, I think it's a great tool.

I didn't measure the edge angles/thickness NIB...I don't have a calliper.

 

[Quiet Storm]

Originally posted by Andrew Lynch
The handles are very different. Which one you like will probably make a big difference as to which knife you prefer. The BK9's is much wider and a little larger. It is made of a hard plastic that is not too grippy (this has been discussed a lot before). It is contoured pretty well, although it is a tad squarish, and its thickness spreads the load very nicely. The holes for the screws are somewhat abrasive. The main thing I don't like about these handles is the rear part. It is "knobby" and makes choking down on the grip for heavy chopping uncomfortable. Overall, IMHO a nice handle that could be improved with more contouring and a more aggressive texture (minus the holes).
I made new handle scales out of wood for my PM as you can see here:
[...]
The Battle Rat has a thinner handle that is of a great material called Resiprene C. This stuff feels like a hard car tire and seems to hardly ever give blisters. The handle is nicely contoured and the texture is about perfect. It allows one to choke down comfortably. The only thing I would like to change on this handle would be to increase its thickness to that of the BK9's.

Exactly my thoughts, even though I would add that IMO the Becker handle material feels awfully cheap (unlike SRKW's Resiprene C), but just like you stated: the dimensions of the Becker handles are great. I have to admit, however, that my hands are fairly large.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Andrew Lynch :

The BK9's Balance point is about an inch in front of the handle material, fairly neutral. The Battle Rat's balance point is about 1.7" from the handle material ...

This would appear to be the critical difference in the two knives, the performance difference induced by that large of a shift in balance on knives of similar weight is going to be very dramatic, and thus produces two similar looking but very different performing blades indeed. Nice job describing the primary field of use of each, I would assume that is a large help to the prospective buyer, clarifying which tool would work best for them.

I made new handle scales out of wood for my PM ...

Nice job on the scales, you might want to give some thought on discussing usage of a large 9-10" bowie class blade as compared to a larger blade like the Patrol Machete. While these are geared towards different tasks in their primary roles there is a lot of overlap between the two. Do something like make a small shelter with each, or just with both at the same time and then talk about there performance and versatility throughout. It would be informative reading.

I decided to make a new Kydex sheath for it (multi-carry) ...

It looks like a nice clean design. One note about appearance, the amount and size of the heads is slightly overpowering especially in the last picture. For visual appear you might to reduce the size and/or match the color to the kydex.

[penetrator tip]

The BR's tip is stronger and yet pointier.

This is a really understated but very powerful design element. It also doesn't have the drawbacks of large clips like reducing baton effectiveness, or versatility with draw knife work.

Fine work went to the BR with its great choil, thought he BK didn't fare badly. I could just get more control with less wrist fatigue with the BR.

This is a bit of a surprise considering the balance issue at face value with the BR being heavier, of course the strength of the finger choil is essentially that you can shift the balance point (and blade length) at will. It can be a very powerful feature on large knives. Did you have to do any work on the choil to increase its comfort or did it work well for your NIB? Can you work with it for extended periods of time without discomfort.

Danbo :

... the specimens(Battle Rat and Camp Tramp) that I have seen up close have been a little too thick in the edge for my tastes.

They are overbuilt for pure wood working knives. For example the Camp Tramp that I have is 0.055" behind the edge. This is about twice what is necessary to be able to handle hard woods with a decent amount of skill. However hard impacts off of inclusions, and harder materials like thick bone could still be a problem mainly with lateral impacts, someone not familiar with the use of such knives would also require a thicker edge. Even then though, the strength of around 0.045" would be very difficult to exceed, but this is a small change from 0.055". Note the gain in cutting performance from dropping the edge thickness is very slow (far below linear) and the loss in strength very fast (*far* above linear) [ a 100% gain in strength comes at the cost of just < 20% in cutting performance].

The critical point performance wise is mainly the edge angle, Ray Kirks last competition winning bowie was :

... flat ground to about .040 on the edge and then convex ground for the edge back about 3/8"

Not exactly a very thin edge, but a very acute one. Specific to edge angles the Swamp Rats are much more acute than average, the two I have seen are 16-18 degrees per side which for example puts them in the same class as the higher performing production folders from Spyderco and Buck with its new Edge 2000 . This says a lot about the confidence of Busse in regards to steel quality given the difference in scope of use of a small folder and a large 1/4" bowie .

-Cliff

 

[Andrew Lynch]

Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
It looks like a nice clean design. One note about appearance, the amount and size of the heads is slightly overpowering especially in the last picture. For visual appear you might to reduce the size and/or match the color to the kydex.

Yes, I don't think chicago screws are the most visually appealing fasteners. I will probably start buying the black ones to make them blend in a bit more (I have not until now because they cost twice as much). I would buy them with smaller head diameters, but I can't find any other sizes than this. The reason I use these chicago screws are purely utilitarian; they are very strong, will not corrode, and are easily removed and put back on for cleaning (which is necessary every so often if the sheath is being used in the woods).

Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
Did you have to do any work on the choil to increase its comfort or did it work well for your NIB? Can you work with it for extended periods of time without discomfort.

NIB it was coated, so it was not uncomfortable (though I could round the edges to further increase comfort). I have not worked with the choil grip for very long periods, but I don't think I'd have a hard time doing so.

 

[frank k]

Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
Note the gain in cutting performance from dropping the edge thickness is very slow (far below linear) and the loss in strength very fast (*far* above linear) [ a 100% gain in strength comes at the cost of just < 20% in cutting performance].

Cliff, could you please explain that statement?

Exactly, how is strength lost “very fast (*far* above linear)"?

What type of strength are you referring to?

How did you determine the change in cutting performance from dropping the edge thickness?

Specific to edge angles the Swamp Rats are much more acute than average, the two I have seen are 16-18 degrees per side which for example puts them in the same class as the higher performing production folders from Spyderco and Buck with its new Edge 2000 . This says a lot about the confidence of Busse in regards to steel quality given the difference in scope of use of a small folder and a large 1/4" bowie .

FWIW, my BK9’s edge is 0.050-0.055” thick behind the bevel and has an angle of about 12-13 degrees per side. I would guess that there is a good deal of variation in thickness and angle from blade to blade, so yours may well be different.



- Frank

 

[gundy]

Andrew, i do not own, nor have I handled a BK9', but I do have a BK7' and a Camp Tramp, so i guess I could compare to a certain degree.

When I got the 7'...I loved it, it was 'the one' as my user until the tramp arrived. the thumb ramp was okay in my book, never thought of the glove issue. Good call Rok.

But, the handles on the 7' were a bit of a slight let down for me. Could have been rectified with custom slabs of which I had a go at (unsuccesfully), but, in the end, I like the thicker edges and the Rc handles of the RATS (yes, gundy likes these rubber handles, shock horror). So, I went with swamp rat and have not looked back.

You have me thinking what the BK9' is like now though...probably also too big for me as a user as is the BR, I like those 7 odd inches mate...

Good review!

 

[Lukers]

Andrew,
I liked your review overall. It was comprehensive and informative. I recently got a BK9 through a trade and had many of the impressions that you did about it. It came as sharp as spydercos and sharper than Busses. The grinds were very good and the BK’s edge geometry seemed to be relatively thin.

Start of Quote:"The BK's NIB edge was thinner than the BR's, but not by leagues. I thinned down the BR edge until it was about like the BK's, then I did most of the testing comparing the two. Both edges were shaving NIB, but the BK amazed me. The edge was RAZOR sharp.

Now, on to chopping. I could go on about this for a long time, but here's the overview. The BR had more power and beat out the BK in heavy chopping, especially on hard wood. As an example, the BK would, on thick, hard (dead) wood almost bounce off, while the BR would still bite in. The BK has more neutrally balanced and beat out the BR in machete-like chores and small and soft wood. For example, the BK would clear brush with less wrist fatigue than the BR (though both are not really suited to the job). Both were good choppers." End
Why does the BR perform better on hard wood than the BK? Is it the handle angle and mass of the blade?

Also I have a question about the performance of modified INFI, Sr-101, INFI. I have heard the M-INFI performs at 70% off INFI, and that Sr-101 performs 85% of INFI. I don't know if these figures are concrete and proved through experimental means. Having said that and if those figures are accurate, I don't understand why INFI is said to perform so much better than every other steel. If Sr-101 is basically 52100, what makes a Swamp Rat blade that much better than a knife made by Ed Fowler out of 52100, or any other experienced knife maker. This seems to me that maybe the steel isn't so important when compared to the extensive heat treating process that Busse uses. Please take note that I am basing my assumptions solely off an estimated and relative level of performance (and I have no clue who came up with the percentages)
Luke

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Frank :

Exactly, how is strength lost ~Svery fast (*far* above linear)"?

Because there are both more slip planes to take the strain and they have to move a greater extent to normalize the strain, these are multiplicative factors both depending on length in that dimension, in this case thickness.

What type of strength are you referring to?

Parallel to the edge thickness, rippling in other words. Strength (loads applied slow enough to allow slip planes to dissipate the applied strain preventing fracture) is linear perpendicular to them, but these are not usually of consequence, as thin knife edges usually fail by rippling, not by being pulled apart in the edge to spine dimension or tip to choil.

Edge to spine prying isn't a worry because now you have an even greater strength because the width and thickness have reversed and the strength has been increased by their ratio (which is usually very large, on the order of 10 or so), tip to choil is nearly impossible to do any damage as there isn't a person alive with the necessary grip strength to hold onto the knife.

Impaction is of cource in those dimensions, and thus linear with edge thickness, but it is a far less grave concern than rippling as impaction generates *far* less damage even in extreme circumstances and it is actually rare to have edge thickness effect impaction as you have to actually exceed the size of the edge bevel, which takes rather extreme cutting indeed .

How did you determine the change in cutting performance from dropping the edge thickness?

I measured it (necessary applied load or number of cuts) and correlated it to edge thickness. The specific number quoted in the above applies to wooden dowel cutting as it is one of the most sensitive types of cutting to that aspect of geometry (or just whittling in general), rope cutting for example is far less sensitive to edge thickness and thus you lose even less cutting ability for strength gains. It just has to do with how fast the binding falls off above the point at which the material is being cut, ropes for example have a faster fall off than woods and thus the edge thickness dependence is reduced further and thus the ratio of strength gain to cutting loss is increased.

I would guess that there is a good deal of variation in thickness and angle from blade to blade ...

Significant indeed, I have noticed this on the three Patrol Machetes I have used. The edge thickness is usually very similar before sharpening as these jig ground of sort I would assume. But the sharpening is by hand in most cases so production blades can end up with very different edge thickness and angles. A two to three degree spread either way isn't unusal. Yours of 12-13 I would expect is on the low side and right where I would run it for most wood work.

Luke :

Why does the BR perform better on hard wood than the BK? Is it the handle angle and mass of the blade?

Hard woods require more impact energy to be penetrated and since the BR is more blade heavy, the power of the swing is greater. This is why hardwood axes have much thinner bits than softwood axes (plus the wedging actions are very different and require thicker bits on the soft wood axes). You will see similar differences as you move to softer wood of larger diameter.

... what makes a Swamp Rat blade that much better than a knife made by Ed Fowler out of 52100

I would bet that you would get a lot of people that would argue that it isn't, the heat treatement is not at all similar and thus the blades performance is very different. For example the Swamp Rat's can not bend to the extent that Fowler's blades can, and one of the requirements for extreme performance in Fowler's viewpoint is extreme bending ability. This is achieved by not hardening the spine and thus it has a very high level of ductility (along with blade tapers and a full convex grind and a very thin edge). However these factors weaken the blade significantly and thus a Swamp Rat takes much more force to bend. The edges are of similar hardness so edge retention would be similar, possibly to Busse's advantage in abrasive materials because of the cryo and/or other alloy elements present [52100 isn't one of the more cryo sensitive steels however]. The edge on a Fowler is going to be significantly thinner, and of similar angle, so they will in general outcut a Swamp Rat but be easier to damage.

-Cliff

 

[Andrew Lynch]

Originally posted by Lukers
Why does the BR perform better on hard wood than the BK? Is it the handle angle and mass of the blade?

Cliff said it very well, but I'll put it in my words.

Because of the lack of blade-heaviness in the BK, I would have to swing very hard in order to get much penetration on hard wood (how hard depended on the thickness of the hard wood). It was hard to build up much momentum.

However, for that same reason the BK makes a better short machete.

 

[frank k]

Originally posted by Cliff Stamp
Because there are both more slip planes to take the strain and they have to move a greater extent to normalize the strain, these are multiplicative factors both depending on length in that dimension, in this case thickness.

Strength is the ability of a material to resist external forces. When you double the thickness of a knife blade, you double the amount of material and the strength as well. In other words, strength is proportional to a blade’s thickness (if all else is the same).

Parallel to the edge thickness, rippling in other words. Strength (loads applied slow enough to allow slip planes to dissipate the applied strain preventing fracture) is linear perpendicular to them, but these are not usually of consequence, as thin knife edges usually fail by rippling, not by being pulled apart in the edge to spine dimension or tip to choil.

With regard to rippling (assuming that rippling is defined as a bending of the edge out of alignment to the side), a thin blade (all else being equal) may well fair better in proportion to it’s thickness than a thicker one because it is more flexible and it will deflect further with out reaching it’s elastic limit. Although the actual force needed would be essentially proportional, you could flex the thinner blade through a greater arc without it taking a set.

Edge to spine prying isn't a worry because now you have an even greater strength because the width and thickness have reversed and the strength has been increased by their ratio (which is usually very large, on the order of 10 or so), tip to choil is nearly impossible to do any damage as there isn't a person alive with the necessary grip strength to hold onto the knife.

Huh??! You lost me there Cliff. Are you saying that prying with the edge or tip is not likely to cause damage? I don’t get it.





- Frank