Black Cloud Philippine Box Cutter

T

Thrawn

Joined
Apr 24, 1999
Messages
282
I recently received a Black Cloud Philippine Box Cutter and would like to share my initial impressions of this neat little piece. First of all, the one that's shown on the Black Cloud site listed on BF's links is not the version I got, per se. It just doesn't have the hook thing. Besides that, it's all the same. According to Ernest Mayer, the knife's supposed to be held like a kerambit or like the La Griffe, except in reverse--you stick your pinky in the ring, or your index, if it's in the reverse grip. I tried both, and the knife was secure and was so light that full speed techniques were unhindered. The whole thing's made outta ATS-34, and possesses 3 (yes, 3!) edges: Primary, sharpened secondary, and a small, but still effective sharpened edge that is pointed back towards the hand, which, when held in reverse grip, serves as quite the hooking device. All edges are ground to an X-acto knife's thickness with a progressive taper so as to maintain good blade strength. The grind is chisel, and the edges were EXTREMELY sharp.

Make no mistake, this is no utility blade, it's a defensive tool for, what I'm guessing, the extremely skilled, seeing as how the longest edge is only 1.25". But it's a nasty surprise for any jerk wanting to take advantage of a seemingly unarmed opponent. I'm personally not good enough to use this w/ the efficiency I'm sure it was designed for, but hell, it's better than nothing. Besides, what am I supposed to spend my money on?
Anyway, let's talk about Ernest Mayer. The guy got me the knife in a week, mainly b/c he had some in stock that he was finishing up (if you want one, order it now!). Besides that, I saw on the old website (the one on the Links portion of BF is actually one that Mayer doesn't use anymore) that the thing was shipped for $60, which includes S&H. He asked if it was $60 w/o S&H, and I told him that his old site said otherwise. Instead of pulling some lawyer crap on me about that site no longer being valid, he was cool w/ sending it off for $60 all together and sent it second day air delivery. What does that make the knife cost, then? About $50--not bad, and I got it in a week. Beyond that, he also accessed the old e-mail account for the old site, and found my question from about 7-8 weeks ago about the PBC. For those others who wrote about its price and didn't get a reply, now you know why. He used that to tell me to let him know how the knife turned out and to make any suggestions. So, for the knife, the speedy service, and the openness to suggestions, I would highly reccommend Black Cloud, not only for the PBC but for its other intersting designs that I'm sure lots of you would like. Oh wait, wasn't this about the PBC at first? Tangents...Oh yeah, I like the PBC a lot. There you go!

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Chiro,
Sorry, Mayer doesn't have the site done yet, but he says he's working really hard on it even as we speak. He's gonna have animation on it, and a section on making knives, and some other cool stuff that I can't remember. Plus, the dude's the sole manufacturer of Szabo designs so you can bet he's gonna have some new models out on it. As soon as it's up, I'll let you all know, though.
 
So it sounds like you need an escalator as a tune-up for the PBC, right? Helping out...

(by the way, tangents are part of your genetic code, don't question them...)

[This message has been edited by Parker (edited 24 June 1999).]
 
Hey Jedi Knife, the pic of the PBC is at:
www.syspac.com/~bcloud/pbc.htm

Parker,

Stop putting those horrible ideas in my head!
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Besides that, I wouldn't know how to use an Escalator, and buying one for the $150 (?) it costs would get me killed by my girlfriend. I just decided to wait on the Emerson La Griffe, and now my willpower's being bent towards a key ring mini tool and a photon light (got a Leatherman Micra a couple of days ago as a birthday gift, but would prefer some pliers instead). And then there's the never ending quest for a good butterfly knife--if only someone would be willing to trade my CS Desperado for something decent. See that? Tangents! It must be in my DNA.
 
Thrawn,

Damn that's cool!


JK

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There's more than one way to skin a cat!

 
Thrawn -- why do you think Laci named the PBC after our homeland? Don't see any Filipinos here using a design like it.
 
Titan,

Actually, Ernest Mayer told me that it was an Elishewitz design, based on some knives he saw in Indonesia. Funny, it looks awfully like something Szabo would make, right? Anyway, I think the name was a sort of joke, seeing as how filipino martial arts are famous now. Naming it a box cutter gives me the impression that someone was trying to make it sound like a tool (yeah right) rather than a weapon, and making it also sound like something a filipino warehouse worker would use for defense in tight situation. Oh well. By the way, did you get the knife mags I sent you yet? later.
 
Hey Thrawn, it works real nice as a box cuter if you use that hook I bet, and doesn't your version of arnis involve trapping and gunting? This piece is perfect for either. Also, as I recall, as escrimadores or arnisman (pun, sorry Bram) we are supposed to use anything as weapon. What you and I talked about, sheesh this thing is perfect. Figured out how to trap the body yet? You could use it to clean fish and cut line too

parker
 
Thrawn -- that makes sense. Salamat. Nope, I'm still waiting for the postman to deliver it!
 
Hey Parker, I don't really have what you'd call a "specific" style of escrima, but I'll tell you that my training did involve a lot of medium/closer range stick/knifework. That not only involves a lot of defanging, but concerns itself w/ some disarms (which allow, if done w/ a knife, some pretty nice cuts along w/ the techninque) controls, and locks. But damn, w/ a knife, the translation from stick to blade is so much better and devastating! That's why I looked at the PBC; not only did I learn the basic saber and hammer grips, but I learned some reverse-grip stuff, too. Whip the PBC out, and if it's dark, your assailant doesn't know the better. The jerk kicks, punches, or thrusts w/ a knife, you hook the limb and proceed to fillet. Sure, the crap's debilitating, but hell, you're not killing the guy. Besides that, who the hell's really going to attack you w/ a stick these days? More than likely, it's a gun, then a knife, then hands and feet. The first option's not worth my life, but the other's; they're fair game. If some jerk thinks he can bully me w/ a knife or his hands, and I've got my blade w/ me, I'd just as soon tell him to come and try. I'm a little guy, and I had bad experiences w/ bullies when I was a kid. No more of that crap, especially when it involves bodily harm, and more importantly, when it involves harming the people I care about. Luckily, though, I haven't had to do anything about it. There's another rant...Anyway Parker, I haven't figured the full body trap out yet, but could imagine the results (shudder). And I thought I was the sick one.
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Pass the stick around wais at kidney/ lower spine area after softening up techniques of your choice (shudder ow pain hurt) and clamp under your armpit, either one, then squeeze. Keep your stik hand in the overhand grip ponted back at yourself. Also pro-actice gently at first with your partner so that you both work out how not to break yourself Also works w/ neck, arm, arm and neck, leg, possibility endless, play with this. It requires something the size of a two to three fot stick, and the stick will be a cane (yes there are crazy folks that old, helpless or trying to pass for such) a bat, a tire iron (mix in some kukri with a stick) wooden stick from construction site, look around you for sticks. PBC...sixty bucks? And who said anything about assailant..This body tech works well with a Monodnock baton also. And you get the benefits of a short stick to begin with Wow! Smile Jon, just a humble student passing on what little bits of knowledge i have.
 
Parker, thanks for the info. That sounds kinda complicated to me, but I'm sure after some practice, it'll be cool. Assailant? I mean "overly aggressive training partner." Or "test subject."
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Hey, wouldn't it be cool to have some titanium sticks? Anyway, I think the PBC is worth the sixty bucks, and he's got some in stock still, I think. One week later, you'll have a pretty cool "box cutter." Outta here for now.
 
If you want to see where the idea for the PBC came from, check out a Korambit. It's a sickle shaped blade originating in Indonesia. For an example, go to the BF Links section and find the Kris Cutlery link. Go to the "Sandata" section and then scroll down till you find "korambit".

Dave.
 
Hey Dave, someone showed me that link already. That thing looks simple, but I knw how devastating it could be. Kinda like a kama, except in the reverse grip. Know of anyone else who makes these kind of knives? I just want to look at them and gawk, y'know. By the way, any of you know how to use a REKAT Escalator?
 
Thrawn, of course I do... open it using both hands and then stab after beating your overly agressive partner into jeyy with your three foot stick...could not resist./ Yerah, the Escalator is absolutely self explantory when you hold it...do not make a fist around the handle if you want to gunting to open, hit, the blade will back cut all by itself ( i have numerous openings and several pair of pants trashed to illustrate the effectiveness of the back cut without a sharpend edge on the reverse, then flow to your normal knife pattern. it also sticks out of my paws enough on both ends to work as a pocket stick or funny shaped kubotan with a surprise. It works well in a reverse grip, cuts on the upswing and sticks and retreats; whenever I get a chance and an unsuspcting training partner I will try the gunting to trap with a cut (maybe Paul will want to try this tonite, what do you think?)

Thrawn, does this mean you are thnking about buying one? Are we in the same club (rent/ mortgage, or a new knife..decisions )or what?

By the way, it is not a complicated trap.. just not taught much. Bando is not complicated, but instead real simple. Try thgis for positioning...put your partner's neck in the bend of your elbow, holding your favorite stick in a standard over hand grip. Rotate your hand laterally back towards yourself so that you make a triangle around your partner's head and fit the looes end under your arm, then move the sitck into your armpit to remove the space he can squirm in. Do this gently. I repeat gently. Now Squeeze. It hurts, have him try it on you. Adjust accordingly for leg, body, etc. To make the neck a choke, turn into a figure four and it becomes much more than pain compliance. Too bad you are out there in the wild west, or I could show you this fun stuff. Very deceptively easy, and you did mention you are not one of those big weighty monsters. Easy for you to move, you will quickly figure out better ways to do this should you both go ewasy on each other for a while.


[This message has been edited by Parker (edited 30 June 1999).]
 
No, I wasn't SERIOUSLY thinking about buying an Escalator, but if it sways Bob Taylor's mind about stopping production on his neck knives...The damn things expensive, though! I don't have a job yet, so spare income isn't existent yet. I wish I was still in college, at least then I had a source of money to waste on my destuctive predilections. I think I've actually seen a trap like the one you're describing, and have done it on someone's neck. We called it a #7 choke, and had the option to either sleeper the bastard or pop his windpipe outright. Of course, that good part comes after the block, check, defang, and the #7 strike to the collar bone or the soft spot behind and to set up the entry. Only problem for me is that I'm just too short and I usually have to rack the guy or punyo him in the stomach to get him to lower down. Truth to tell, I suck at stick when you compare my skill w/ knife. Knife's quicker, more dangerous, and has more, shall we say, options (read, "bloodletting capability"). But the Escalator's so interesting to me b/c it allows me to take a guy out w/ the option of not killing or bleeding him. If he wants to get more serious, click, the knife's out. The PBC's a more serious weapon, and if I want to get less than bloody, then I have to fight barehanded. Forget about a fair fight, I'm 5'4"! Everyone else is usually taller than me. Talk to you later. And the quest for the perfect defensive weapon goes on...
 
Hi Jon,
How's that fang holding up? Just checking to see how it's doing...I read your earlier post about titanium sticks, and lo and behold James Piorek of JSP Balderigger has some. If you go to his site, you can check them out there, they are a little pricey though
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They say they can be made to specifications as well. Here's the link www.bladerigger.com
Have fun and see you on the forums.

jon
 
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