Blade(s) for Desert Survival

O

oldsalt

Joined
Jan 27, 2005
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I see a lot of threads here and on other forums addressing the best blades for Jungle survival or mountain survival or survival in heavily forested areas to the North, but I hve seen little if anything addressing the best blades for survival / camping in desert wilderness areas. I'm not talking about a Sahara type desert. Being from Austin Texas a lot of my camping has been in done in West Texas, the Big Bend area in SW Texas and the staked plains of NW Texas and this is the type of desert terrain I am talking about. Rock and sand, various types of Cacti, Mesquite and Creasote bushes. If any trees they are usually Pinion Pine, scrub oak, scrub cedar or cotton wood near a water source.
I will start off. For me, I want a blade that would be good for (1) cutting cactus for food and water, (2) cutting very hard, dry wood (Mesquite, oak and cedar) for fire and shelter and (3) digging in rocky/sandy soil for water and shelter. A matchete wold be good for cactus ( long blade to keep you away from the thorns ) and for digging, but would not stand up well to cutting dry oak and cedar. I usually carry a CS Trail Master, Becker 9" Military or a Becker Brute. I have also been known to carry an HI Kukuri.
Couple one of these with a small blade for cleaning food animals( snake, rabbit, ground squirrel or fish and mule deer if you are lucky). For me this is usually a good slip joint multi-blade folder like an Eye_brand Rancher or an old Timer Rancher.
So what are your thoughts on the best blades for desert survival?
 
I think I would go with the machete (D-guard Ontario) and add a folding pruning saw (such as the Gerber Sport saw). One of the large (111mm) locking blade SAK's with a wood saw (such as the Hunter) would round things out. A 4" hunting knife would also be nice but not an absolute necessity.



- Frank
 
Tomahawk, no doubt about it. One with a 3.5-4" edge. And for what you're describing, I'd suggest one with a spike poll for the digging part.

This gives you plenty of reach from thorns, an easily replaceable handle, awesome chopping power, and with a back-spike you have a good tool for breaking up hard desert ground. Come to think of it, you might be able to have someone make you one that has the spike flattened into a hoe shapped blade.

All this in a fairly light package (about equal to a large machete or khukri).

Just my humble opinion.
 
Leather gloves too, cacti are a ^%#$%^. I still have the scars from when I had surgery to remove imbedded needles.
 
Shpshooter,
Amen to leather gloves. I always carry thick leather gloves when in the desert. Not only good around Cacti, but also good for handling that hot coffee pot in the evening or morning.

FSCJedi,
Do you have a source for a good quality inexpensive spike backed hawk? I love a hawk and have carried them. They are great for cutting hard dry wood but not so great for cacti or digging, though I havn't tried one with a spike. Can't afford the "Ranger" at $100+.

Old Salt
 
i had a convrsation with the late david alloway that tought desert survival in texas until his untimely death. his favorite knife for desert use was a cold steel SRK, felt that that was enough knife for the desert, he did a long trip in the australian out back and said it was pretty good for the outback also. did not think that he needed a real big blade for desert use. i am pretty sorry i did not get to spend some time with him as he passed away befor i could make an arangement to do one of his courses. i always wanted to do desert survival course. david was quite a gentleman. cowboy up.

alex
 
Hey all,

FWIW...One of the things you'll end up doing in desert survival is a lot of digging... to make distilation pits, obtain roots, tubers and bugs, etc... A hawk w/a spike may work...

But I'd recommend a spear-point blade along the lines of size like the larger blades stated above (I don't want to ignite a brand flame-fest - so you choose the knife! LOL!!) And the heat treat and edge geometry should be considered in making that choice as they willl affect the integrity of the blade under harsh use...
 
I know that CS uses pine to test the cutting power of their Trail master, but would it suvive cutting hard wood like mentioned. If not what would be a good knife for hard wood cutting. Let's just say that an axe is not in the piture.
 
In his book 98.6 "The art of keeping your a$$ alive", Cody Lundin suggests a solid tanged knife with an overall length of 8-9" and even though many don't think he knows much about knives, for the most part, I agree with him. Our terrain here in California is more varied than probably any other state and contains high Mtn., pine forests, grassland, hard wood forests, coastal redwoods, tuley lands and swamps, to desert, including Death Valley. I own several large chopping style knives, but havn't carried one on my belt for over a year now. I own three knives in the size that Lundin suggests and all are excellent cutting, hard working blades. The BRKT NorthStar, Mora 2000 and Frosts Mora SwAK would more than fill my needs for any terrain I happen to find myself in. My preferance would be to carry the NS, with the M2K as backup. I wouldn't use my knives to break ground, so a hawk with spiked end would be great, but odds are, I'd probably use a digging stick and lacking available candidates, the hickory staff I tote with me would work. Oh, I don't leave home without a good pair of leather gloves. They ride in my hip pocket on a daily basis.
 
I grew out in the boonies daily in deserty country in west to west central Texas. I never saw anybody but a damn fool dig in the dirt with a knife. And with all due respect, the "distillation pit" concept is that and that only: have any of you ever tried this; ever known anybody that got one to work? Bet not.

My current carry is (1) a good folder - usually one of 4 Benchmades, but I have a CRKT M16 Tanto that gets a lot of use (2) any one of several competent saws -- the longer the better, but for me anything from a Mauser SAK to a 14" folder [just ordered the new 8 strand supposedly much improver wire saw from BCB, but I have my doubts as for day to day utility. And, in my opinion, if you can't depend upon it from day to day, you can't depend upon it under emergency conditions, and it will get ypu killed]
(3) a sharpshooter spade in the truck and a Dig-Its folding mini-shovel in my bag, (4) a large-ish fixed blade -- 6 to 10", depending upon what I'm doing [daily carry for hunting is a 6" custom Bo Randall made for me in 1972; or a Gerber-Loveless 4.5" drop point gets a lot of use; finally a short Gerber hand ax in my bag and full size ax 9double bitted and older than god) in the truck.

Contrary to a lot of wishfull thinking, there is not much to eat below the surface of the ground in the deserty southwest or as far north as Utah, and big pieces of Wyoming and Montana. At least I never found anything worth the energy expenditure. River bottoms are a whole different micro-climate, however.

As far as cutting desert wood, you are better off with saw or just breaking the stuff up. You will not get far with standing seasoned mesquite or oak with a knife. Limb lopping of green stuff is not a big problem, of course.

But, this is just my experience, gained over 48 years, during many of which I have been horseback every single day, rain or shine. As the old guys always said, if you're afoot, you're f*cked. Pretty true.

I have gathered cattle out 4 to 8 section pastures where we brought in about one wetback per section. It used to be not uncommon to run across a group of 10 or 12 guys walking cross country from as far south as Puebla headed as far north as Colorado. These guys did not carry a lot of hadware. Water in whatever they could scrounge [everything from canvas water bags to coke bottles]. Maybe one good conventional pochet knife among a group of about 10, or rarely, a machete. I have never seen a fixed blade. Very tough people with very hard minds. It takes a lot of balls to set out walking from, say, the Big Bend area north up to Monahans or so, and eventually to Amarillo, eastern New Mexico, or Colorado, and to depend upon running across surface water sources or windmills. Alot of these folks died and are still dying, perhaps at a greater rate. But many too were/are very tough, and very savy about the land and linving among it.
 
Here in Central Brazil (Minas Gerais) we don’t have true desert or true jungle, but a near approximation of both can be found at varying times of the year in the nearly the same location just by changing elevation. In the lower elevations during rainy season it is hot, steamy, single canopy tropical forest. These forests are remnants of the Mata Atlântica, or places where those forest plants are recovering. If you didn’t know better you’d say it was jungle, after the first mile of hacking you won’t be convinced otherwise. Most of the southern part of the state is like this.

Above this is scrub forest called the Cerrado. The Cerrado is characterized by rocky sandy soil, short trees, yucca, palms, lots of grassy meadows, termite mounds, armadillos, lizards, black-headed vultures, white-tailed hawks, snakes, etc. In the dry season this area is very dry and dusty much like west Texas. Flowing water can be found in most valleys of the Cerrado through the year but the springs will dry up.

In the north of the state the Cerrado gives way to Caatinga, basically Cerrado that gets tortured by thirst. The trees of the Caatinga are mostly short dead skeletons that grew during a rainy cycle that has since ended. Cactus abound, water is very scarce. The Caatinga can’t make up its mind if it is going to be a true desert or scrub forest Cerrado. During dry cycles the valley watercourses in the Caatinga are dry.

Rising above all of these ecosystems is the Altimontano also called the Campo Rupestre. Water is more constant here due to heavy clouds, fog, mist, and drizzle. Grasses predominate with small groups of trees and bushes. Bromeliads grow in the rocks in groups up to 40 or 50. In the dry season these plants are the only reliable source of water up there. In the winter the temps drop below freezing and there is very little to burn up there.

This type of varied terrain presents a challenge to gear selection, especially blades. I haven’t found a single blade that works well for every area. In the forests you chop a lot, above them you have to dig and sometimes chop. You constantly have to press into service a blade that is better suited for something else.

The best all around blade for me is the machete. I’m learning that the 14-inch is about the best all around length. Short 10 and 12-inch machetes are lighter to carry in the high elevations and serve well for digging or leveling ground. They are dismal performers on hardwood. The 14-inch machete is a good compromise between weight and power. In the lower forests a 16-inch is preferable. The longer 20-inch machete is a true jungle tool and no real advantage here.

Randjack, I respect your informed opinions but digging with a machete is perfectly acceptable. They only cost about $5, sharpen with a file, and dig like a shovel. When they get beat up I leave them with a local and gain a friend for life, not to mention free parking, hot beans and sausage, a cup of coffee, and detailed information. It’s a win-win situation.

If I had to carry one blade, based on my experience it would be a 14-inch machete. In the very next breath, a small fixed blade makes a great companion. I really like the Mora Clipper or SWAK but have used the Air Force Survival Knife in this role as well. The Mora’s are better cutters but the AFSK is sturdy enough to baton through hard wood. I sometimes carry a Newt Livesay NRGS neck knife as a companion to my machete.

A seven to nine inch blade will work in desert-like conditions for a lot of tasks but you will be pressing it into service for many others. I can’t bring myself to shove my BK-7 into quartz gravel in search of water. I would cut a digging stick for this and save the knife. Chopping hardwood is doable but hard work with a seven-inch knife. For most of the small tasks a smaller knife is better. If I were to carry a large knife I would back it up with a folding saw.

When I take people out into the bush here I give them a machete and small fixed blade. Mac
 
Mac: We agree -- I just don't consider a machete to be a "knife."
 
randjack said:
Mac: We agree -- I just don't consider a machete to be a "knife."
Click to expand...

Eggzacctly. I've always considered machetes to be more of a "special purpose" tool than a knife. I tried, but hardwoods like juniper eat em up. Now when I was on Okinawa and in the Phillipines, a machete was a necessity.

Up here in the high desert (basin and range) - sage and PJ. I like a small blade and hatchet. Typically, if I don't have a shovel or my small (approx 7 1/2") pry to dig with, I use found materials - sharp rock or make a digging stick.
 
I just got a U-Dig-It. Really nifty little gadget.
 
mwelch8404 said:
Eggzacctly. I've always considered machetes to be more of a "special purpose" tool than a knife. I tried, but hardwoods like juniper eat em up.
Click to expand...

Same here. I'll use one for pruning away overgrowth around the yard, but I won't use one for chopping any kind of wood thicker than my wrist.

Up here in the high desert (basin and range) - sage and PJ. I like a small blade and hatchet. Typically, if I don't have a shovel or my small (approx 7 1/2") pry to dig with, I use found materials - sharp rock or make a digging stick.
Click to expand...

I live in wooded country, so that's just what I take too. I've got a nice 'hawk and an 8" bowie that I always venture into the woods with. For me, they'll do whatever I need 'em to.
 
oldsalt said:
FSCJedi,
Do you have a source for a good quality inexpensive spike backed hawk? I love a hawk and have carried them. They are great for cutting hard dry wood but not so great for cacti or digging, though I havn't tried one with a spike. Can't afford the "Ranger" at $100+.

Old Salt
Click to expand...

Try a search for HBForge. They have some well made inexpensive spike hawks. Not the prettiest in my opinion, but I know they work and are dependable.
 
I hike southern California deserts and coastal, I find a shorter blade I have more control in loosening hard soil, Mora style or SAK screwdriver or awl is better then big knife. In loose sand no knife is good. U Dig It small folding shovel of course is best suited for hard or soft and easy to carry (altho handel is not most comfortable, also it can get hot if exposed for long time, i wrapped it with sports tape for better grip and insulation). You can baton desert hardwood but a cheap folding saw is better.
I also think "distillation pit " is useless for survival skill, maybe fun to try when you have time and more water and calories to consume then you will get back, in survival situatin your energy would be better used on other things, loss outweights benefits.
Martin
 
martin j said:
I also think "distillation pit " is useless for survival skill, maybe fun to try when you have time and more water and calories to consume then you will get back, in survival situatin your energy would be better used on other things, loss outweights benefits.
Martin
Click to expand...

There is no benefit to a solar still other than killing you quicker, it is a myth in desert conditions propogated by the uneducated.

Skam
 
in the desert I made out just fine with a neck knife and a slip joint. But Blair Valley in the Anza-Borrego is desolate. Beautiful but desolate. No wood worth making a digging stick out of. Plenty of scrubby brush for fire but thats about it. Water and a shade structure would serve far better than a huge chopping blade. There was nothing to chop. Don't know what the Texas desert holds. YMMV.

Frank
 
I've spent plenty of time in "the desert" (actually the dry prairies of Washington, the mojave desert, and Saudi and Iraq).

I think a strong folder and a small shovel are what you really need.

Forget the solar still, but a shovel is still very useful:

For digging a sleeping shelter, for making a berm around your camp, for burying your waste, for hammering tent pegs into the ground, for hacking down plants, for digging out your gear after a sand storm, for getting to the roots of plants to eat, for burying the bodies of your half-eaten friends, for harvesting the agave plant to make tequila...well you get the idea.

Good luck,
Allen.
 
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