BladeForums.COM History?

Sal Glesser

Moderator
Joined
Dec 27, 1998
Messages
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Some of the posts had mentioned that somehow Benchmade and / or Lester and Mark were involved in this forum. The comments were made as though there were important events that influenced the forum. Have any of you been around long enough and would care to enlighten me (or any other new kids on the block) as to what happened?
sal
 
Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
1,646
Sal,
I'm sure Mike or Spark (Kevin) will fully clarify, but I believe the issue is one of not so much the history of this particular formum site, but the evolution of knife related forums on the InterNET.
Discounting rec.knives as a USENET group, Benchmade was first with a forum, followed by a dealer (PK or PV?), then another dealer (knifeforums) and now bladeforums. This forum is undoubtedly the most active and widely frequented.



------------------
-=[Bob]=-

Bald is beautiful! Rub a dome for luck today!


[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 04 January 1999).]
 

Archie

Gold Member
Joined
Oct 4, 1998
Messages
209
Benchmade has its own forum in which Mark answered questions while he was still with Benchmade.
 

Spark

HPIC - Hatas gonna Hate
Staff member
Administrator
Super Mod
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Messages
14,859
Geez, how to say this without causing a massive, intersite, cross-net flamewar....

Don't make it easy for me or anything, Sal!
wink.gif


Ok, here goes:

In the beginning, there was USENET, and on these newsgroups there was (and still is) a newsgroup called rec.knives. Then the World Wide Web began to be used by more and more people, and knife users began to use it to find out information. Cold Steel, Langouile and Benchmade added a particular forum script to their sites, which is relatively primative compared to the software currently in use here, but was revolutionary at the time.

Users were able to go to these sites and ask questions about the models of these manufacturers, but felt uncomfortable discussing general knife issues or knives made by other companies. Around this time, another site was opened, this time by a knife dealer, ostensibly for general knife discussion. Unfortunately, due to poor management, this site rapidly went downhill in terms of quality and moderation.

This is about the time that I came upon the online knife scene. At the time, I was employeed free lance for another knife retailer, and realized that such a site, when properly run, would be of great benefit to the knife scene as a whole. So I approached my then employer and suggested that we could implement the same ideas, but make it successful by simply managing it better.

The different policies and management turned out to be one of the key factors in the success of these new forums, as the users were getting tired of what was occurring on the other sites. Shortly after those forums were opened, I found a forum software product that was at least an order of magnitude better than the previous forums being used. This new software had several features that helped it stand out from the rest, the most important of which are Member profiles. Unique profiles prevented identity theft and impersonation, a very big problem then which has now been for all purposes eliminated. This software also has a friendlier user interface, and several other key features that were previously lacking.

Using this software practically ended the trolling, flaming, and other activities that were prevalent on other sites. Based on my input and recommendations, Mark McWillis at Benchmade made the switch over to this same software format, and their problems died as well.

Once these new forums were opened, the others effectively died. Unfortunately, the issue of poor management raised it's head again, and in a very public and ugly split I left the other site.

When this occurred, Mike and I discussed the current situation of knife discussion on the Internet, and we decided that if we learned from the past mistakes, we could create a true public service for knife users on the Internet.

We decided that:
<OL>[*]The Forums couldn't be run by any knife retailer; they had too much to lose in sales to truly run an impartial, "public service" site.
[*]Rather than setting a whole bunch of restrictive rules, we let the members have close to free reign, as long as they followed the all important "Golden Rule". They, in effect, moderated themselves by setting good examples.
[*]If we encouraged all knife dealers, makers, and manufacturers to participate, everyone would benefit. Previous sites couldn't do this at the risk of losing their sales to the competition; we don't have retail sales so we have nothing to lose.
[*]By having the best moderators actively encouraging discussion, more people would be likely to join in.
[*]By actively listening to, and acting upon member suggestions, we would grow where they wanted. As a result, we now have features like IRC Chat, an open links database that any user may add to, Member Knife Reviews, and other, better features in the works.
[*]By making the site easy to use, with as many features as possible, more people would come to it
</LI>[/list=a]

The results speak for themselves. In just over three months, we are the fastest growing and most popular forums site out there. Our moderators haven't had to do much work, thanks to the quality of the members that have been attracted here, and thanks to their example, there have been almost *zero* incidents. We have more to offer than any other knife forums site out there, and that is due to the input we recieve daily from the members: their suggestions are what keep us on track.

More than that, Mike and I know that we are doing the right thing here, and by trying to help out however we can, we are helping the knife industry grow as a whole. We welcome everyone here, whether they be knife novice's or experts, first time grinders or ABS Mastersmiths, bargain shoppers or custom collectors.

We just hope that we live up to the expectations of everyone here, and with the Member's help, I am fully confident that we will meet and exceed those expectations.

Spark

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Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
 
Joined
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Messages
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Spark,

Your eloquence is commendable.


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Take Care,

LD

"Every Dog Has His Day"




 
Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
811
Yep. That's how it happened !
This stuff is really new Sal. It has evolved to what it is now in the past 16 months.
I think we all are on a learning curve here.
The dividends to all of us are enormous,as well as to the industry itself.
Spark did a commendable job in his explanation of the history.
Bill

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Talk is cheap. Free speech is not.



 
Joined
Oct 2, 1998
Messages
5,461
Now that we have a system and philosiphy of running a site that works I beleive it is time to expand the horizon a bit.

Here is a prelude of things to come.

A full scale on-line magazine. No not an online competition for TK or Blade or KI but a compliment to them. Complete with reviews, videos of knives (not just static pictures), maker profiles and a member section.

Full scale blade testing! I know this is what you guys really want. No holds barred and everything goes here. We will test comparable knives against each other and post the results for all to see including the brand names. This is what the public wants and the makers should actually be happy to see this. We will be fair and reasonable and my personal test results will use a scientific formula to factor in the price in the overall results. This way a Busse Battle Mistress when compared to a Cold Steel Trailmaster will have the price factored in.

Contests for members to help manufacturers come up with names for new knives and of course we will encourage the manufacturer to give a knife to the member which wins the contest. We will use our new survey program to do this for the manufacturers at no charge.

More ideas on the horizon so as always.
Stay Tuned!

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Do it! Do it right! Do it right NOW!
www.wowinc.com






[This message has been edited by Mike Turber (edited 04 January 1999).]
 
Joined
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Messages
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Sal,

I told ya that Spark and Mike would FULLY explain! If this were the EIB Network, I'd be telling Rush I'm a DittoHead. So far we haven't come up with anything analgous here, but rest assured we members know we have a comfortable site here to share and enjoy with others of like mind, as Spark said, regardless of where we fit in the grand order of things cutlery related!

------------------
-=[Bob]=-

Bald is beautiful! Rub a dome for luck today!

 

Sal Glesser

Moderator
Joined
Dec 27, 1998
Messages
11,554
Mike - interesting stuff. Sounds good. Regarding the knife testing; I had the thought to do something similar about 10 years ago. Just the "Road Tests", no stories, no ads. I spoke with Mr. Al Mar about the concept. In his usual wise manner, he convinced me that I would be crossing over from the "sharing of knowledge" arena into the "Business" arena. That it wasn't my place to make or break companies and true Road Tests would most assuredly hurt some. Even Consumer reports lists a stamped 304 stainless kitchen knife as "acceptable". I know the ELU would love the info. Heck, we test everybody's knives. We sharpen 'em and dull 'em and break 'em every which way including loose. but we don't say much. Anybody have any thoughts on this...now don't hold back. Say what you really think.
sal
 

Cobalt

Gold Member
Joined
Dec 23, 1998
Messages
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Well, Mike, Sal, Spark, etc... I think this is a great Idea and it will only afirm what most of us experience with road testing of our knives. I myself, when I buy something I always buy two, for the simple reason that I will beat the crap out of one and keep the other prestine. Of course with some of the more expensive knives this can get hard. This allows me to go all out on a knife. Like I said, though, I do not usually buy two customs from the same maker due to cost.

Think about it a magazine test plus opinions and personal testing to concur or disagree with the testing. Maybe openning up a posting on that months knife test for the people that happen to own that knife to discuss their evaluations of it.

Just some food for thought.
 
Joined
Oct 4, 1998
Messages
418
Yes I like the online magazine idea.

You should goto
www.swordforum.com
and check out there site they have a good online mag. going. I think this one is the first one. But it is on swords not knives. but I like swords too.
smile.gif


[This message has been edited by gregj62 (edited 04 January 1999).]
 

Kodiak PA

Gold Member
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Dec 3, 1998
Messages
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I'm excited about Balde Forums doing some actual blade testing. I have full confidence that Mike & Co. will do an excellent job and be completely unbiased. I love the knife rags but let's be honest, they may snap at the hand that feeds them but they won't bite them. I think if a blade fails a knife test here, Mike will let us know as will he let us know the ones that pass muster.

Sal, I think we're really lucky to have this site, it's well run, enjoyable and I feel welcome here. The folks here are great. I guess the best compliment I can say about this place is that I really don't feel a need to visit any other knife forums now. If the info isn't here it will be, all I have to do is ask.

I belong to another forum for my day job. I'm not going to say what it is, but jeez, those people can act nuts at time.

I much rather spend my leisure time here.

Thanks Mike and Spark.

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~Greg Mete~
Kodiak Alaska
KnifeKnutt@aol.com




 
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Cobalt,
I do the same (buying two) with any knife I really like. I know some others who also do this, so its not bizarro.
There is a charm to a pristine knife, but the used-and-abused do the work. These build a character of their own.
I wish I could do the double thing with Reeves stuff. I have a pristeen large and small Sebenza. I also have an Umfaan that is carried and used daily. This little knife has done some dirty chores and still looks great.
I'm rambling off the subject. Sorry.
Bill
 
Joined
Nov 1, 1998
Messages
61
On Mike Turber's idea for an on-line magazine including knife testing. BOY I'd love to see this! I'll presume your testing would primarily be production blades - although I know we give judgements on custom makers, it may be difficult to take the test of one knife and have this be valid on another, since some makers change styles, materials, and techniques from knife to knife.
You mentioned that you would factor pricing ito the evaluations. I certainly see no problems with that as long as the overall evaluation, including the price, is clearly distinguished from the raw performance evaluation. Once you get to a certain quality, it's possible that a minor performance improvement may carry with it a major price difference. But I'd still like the raw data - knife B cuts 10% more rope than knife A, but costs twice as much. This may not make a lot of economic sense, but I still may opt to go for knife B.
I'm sure you've thought of some of the problems - if you solicit the knives from the makers you may not get the normal shipping knife, and many makers are going to be mighty hacked when you expose their knives for what they really are, rather than what they used to be.
Have you considered offsetting the cost with some sort of subscription service, so that those who wanted to pay toward the testing could get full reviews, a voice in what's to be tested, or some such? I'm certainly willing to put up a few bucks to get this going.

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Joined
Nov 18, 1998
Messages
80
My hat's off to Spark and Mike for their excellent thoughts.
I've been on rec.knives too long to give it up, and still go there first, but by golly this is always the second place I visit everyday. Keep up the fine work.
Dane
 

db

Joined
Oct 3, 1998
Messages
3,762
Sal maybe you should tell Mike about how you test blades, since you have been doing it for some time now.
I am sure Mike knows alot about testing knives, but all suggestions would be very helpful.
I am also sure that some tests are better than others and the only way to find out is to do them over and over until the most useful tests show them selfs.
 

Cobalt

Gold Member
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Dec 23, 1998
Messages
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Marvin, there is no such thing as rambling on, on this site. Knife owners are smart people with intelligent opinions that should be expressed.
 
Joined
Dec 20, 1998
Messages
141
The online mag is a great idea. The testing is awesome though. I wish I could afford to do the double purchase thing, but the ones I could afford to "test" aren't worth testing.
You folks have it right about this forum too, I have learned so much in such a short period of time that I'm truly amazed, if not a little overwhelmed. The comfort factor is very high too, I really feel that I can ask anything and it won't come back at me.
I've met some wonderful people through this forum as well.
Tim



 

Jim March

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
3,018
Spark's explanation was *extremely* polite. He didn't lie AT ALL but he left out his getting royally screwed over at one point.

It all worked out for the best, but some of us haven't forgotten the gory details.

I just want to add one suggestion for the future: this forum has not (and should not) make the mistake of having multiple forums for the same purpose. Having different manufacturer forums is fine, that's perfectly cool...but having three "tactical discussion" forums is...well, it's nuts. Even if you have several good potential moderators for such, I think it's just the wrong answer, it means too much jumping around, drives us all nuts.

And Sal: any chance you could comment on the idea of switchblade law reform (over on politics)?

Jim March
 
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