BM 705s not real impressed

[Matt Shade]

Well I didn't get to use it or anything but I did get to handle one and work the blade a few times. It was a 705s new in the box.
The action was super stiff, couldn't even flick the blade open when you were holding back the lock buttons, let alone have it just drop open like everyone says they will. That could be because it is new though.
It was decently sharp, it would shave... but not as well as my delica that hadn't been sharpened in a week or two.
Fit and finish seemed pretty good, fairly even edge grinds, very nice blade grinds.
My real problem with it is the handle and the thumbstud. Maybe its because I have big hands, but I find the knife almost impossible to open with the thumbstud.Its to close to the handle to get a good purchase on it with your thumb.
And the handle, good god why did they do that? It has such a nice blade profile and the handle sucks. The contours of it keep your fingers to far back and your thumb a little far forward if you ask me. About the only way I could hold it comfortably limited it to a grip like you would use while cutting something on a cutting board. I can't think of a better way to explain it, I just didn't like it at all. It was kind of clumsy feeling with your fingers so far back from the front edge of the handle. It did give a secure grip though. I think part of the problem is they were trying to make up for its thickness by slimming down the handle. I would rather have it fill your hand a little bit more. Even a delica with a super thin hanldle still fills out your hand comfortably. So a knife as thick as the 705 has the potential to really have a good feel in your hand, but this one doesn't.
And at risk of getting flamed, I kind of look at the axis lock as a glorified bolt action lock. Sure its a little different but its the same concept- wedging something in between the tang and the spine or stop pin.Nothing new. And with it being tip up carry, the axis lock buttons get caught as you slip it into your pocket, if the action were as smooth as some of you say, the blade would then open in your pocket. Not something I think I'd enjoy.
So those are my thoughts on it. Hopefully those of you who have them like the better. It has potential to be nice knife. Maybe it will fit your hand differently than mine.

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It'll feel better when it stops hurting.

 

[Hoodoo]

Hey Matt,
I'm not flaming you but my experience has been almost the exact opposite. I love the feel of the knife in my hand and I never cease to be amazed at how effortlessly it opens and closes. Easier than any other folder that I own. I'm a big spydie hole fan but this knife flicks open so easily I don't need a spydie hole to get good leverage and it closes so quietly it's like a ghost. Knives are like that. Everone has their favorites. The 705 is one of mine!


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Hoodoo

Why dost thou whet thy knife so earnestly?

The Merchant of Venice, Act IV. Scene I.

 

[dsvirsky]

Matt,
Must be the big hands. I have relatively small hands (wear a size medium glove, but the fingers are always too long) and the 705 is comfortable for me, including the placement of the thumbstuds.

The action on mine was a bit stiff when I first got it, but it loosened up quickly; now it opens smoothly and easily.

As far as the 705 opening in your pocket, that seems unlikely, but you're right, it's a valid concern with tip-up carry. I do think that a more secure detente would be a worthwhile improvement to this knife. Personally, I prefer not to be able to open my knife with just a flick of the wrist (in CA, that makes it an illegal gravity knife).

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Dave

Let no one ever from henceforth say one word in any way countenancing war. It is dangerous even to speak of how here and there the individual may gain some hardship of soul by it. For war is hell, and those who institute it are criminals. Siegfried Loraine Sassoon

 

[e_utopia]

Um, if it's that stiff, just loosen the pivot screw. That's why it's adjustable. As for opening in your pocket: never.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

 

[Full Tang Clan]

Something is definitely wrong with the one Matt handled.

The bigger 710 Axis I handled at a store, and the one I ended buying 6 months later were/are silky smooth to open.

My complaint is the opposite of Matt. The blade isn't sharp enough out of the box.

 

[Jim March]

Dsvirsky: under current CA rules, if it's got a thumbstud (or hole, disc or equivelent) and no actual auto springs, they *cannot* declare it a gravity knife no matter how easy it snaps open. See also PC653k, or the knife law threads linked from my knife page:
http://www.ninehundred.com/~equalccw/blades.html

Jim

 

[Tommi]

Matt, I can easily belive your bad experiences with BM.
I don't have 705 but I do have 710 and AFCK. 710 was a bit stiff --> I loosened pivot --> It doesn't stay trimmed. After a couple of (2-4) days in pocket I'll have to tighten it or have major horizontal blade play

.
Got AFCK. Damn it was stiff.

I can't reason why it was so stiff. Pushing with my thumb I had to change grip to manage to apply enough force to open it. Loosened pivot because what ever would happen to the knife would have been advancement. For that knife it worked as it should - smooth action and no loosening afterwards.

I like both designs (and some other too) so I'll keep them BUT BM's QC is not nearly in same level as Spydercos or Kershaws.

e-utopia, Everybody doesn't have torx kit. If it is needed why doesn't BM supply one with every knife? In Finland we think that 1100mk (170$ for AFCK) is pretty f'''ing much for any knife (most - including hunters etc.- think that 500mk is too much). We expect to get superbly well trimmed and sharp knives for that much. If I buy a video recorder I don't expect that It isn't in working condition before care. Facory adjustment should be good working compromise. With that amount (200$) of money one is able to get custom puukko by a well known smith.

 

[e_utopia]

Well, they should be properly adjusted from the factory, but if you don't have a torx kit, once the knife starts to wear, it will be sloppy. Just maintainance. Now, personally, I think they should use phillips-head (+) screws on the pivot (and clip) so it can be more easily adjusted if you do not have a torx kit, and torx screws for the rest of the assembly, so the average person will not disassemble the knife.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

 

[Hoodoo]

Tommi,
I agree wholeheartedly with the BM QC. Ya never know what you're going to get. Better to handle one first if you can. Spyderco, OTOH, seems to be fairly consistent. But...spydies don't have the axis lock.

I use a light strength Loctite on my pivot adjustment. Once I get it where I want it, it stays. Takes some playing around but I've had a 705 since they first came out and after fiddling with it for awhile, I haven't had to touch it since.


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Hoodoo

Why dost thou whet thy knife so earnestly?

The Merchant of Venice, Act IV. Scene I.

 

[Professor]

The Axis-locking series from BM take some time to break in. Some fine-tuning of the pivot, mixed with consistent lubing of the pivot area and persistent opening and closing of the folder, should within ten days be exactly where you want it.

It took about two weeks for me to get my 705 and 710 right when I bought them back in May '99. Now, over a year later, they've got 0 play in any direction, yet the blades practically fall out when lock tension is cessated.

The 705 is definitely not for everyone. It's rough on large hands. The blade tension/play issue is one that resolves itself with use most of the time.

Professor.

 

[dsvirsky]

Jim,
I'm aware of the text of penal code section 653k. Do you know of any case law to back up your interpretation? I'd rather not have to argue with an LEO (or in court) that a knife can't be considered a gravity knife because it was "designed to open with one hand utilizing thumb pressure" etc., when that police officer has just demonstrated that it can be opened with only a wrist flick.

Admittedly a theoretical concern, since I'm a mainstream, middle-aged, white male, and unlikely to be challanged over my choice of pocket knife carry.

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Dave

Let no one ever from henceforth say one word in any way countenancing war. It is dangerous even to speak of how here and there the individual may gain some hardship of soul by it. For war is hell, and those who institute it are criminals. Siegfried Loraine Sassoon

 

[Matt Shade]

Yeah, its not a completely bad knife, it just doesn't feel right in my hand. And there are a few other issues with it I don't like much.
My worry about it opening in my pocket wasn't that the lock didn't have a strong enough detent. Your right about that, there is no chance of it just flopping open in your pocket for no reason like a cheap liner lock might do. The problem is that as I pushed it down into my pocket, both axis buttons caught and pulled back all the way, and didn't pop back down until the knife was all the way down into my pocket( I could tell because I heard them click when they popped back into place).If the action loosened up like you guys said it would, it would have flopped open in my pocket when the buttons got snagged. And then had I sat down on it or tried to pull it back out wrong it could have gotten caught and done some bad things.
And as for the stiff action being an easy problem to fix- Why should you have to do that to a brand new knife? Have you ever had to re peen the pivot pin on a slip joint or other knife that doesn't have an adjustable pivot? You may not expect it to be set exactly how you want it, but I expect it to be within tolerance. This knife was to stiff to put up with.
Just my 2 cents.

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It'll feel better when it stops hurting.

 

[SALTY]

I have (had) three BM knives. One, sent back to the dealer the day after I got it; the second, poor QC and had to send it back for repairs (new knife, mind you) and the third, the little 940 Osborne, as perfect as you could ask for, for the price.
From the way I see and hear things, BMs are either good or bad, depending on what you happen to get.

 

[Roger Blake]

I have mixed feelings about this knife. I got mine right after they were released to internet dealers so I have had it a while.
I carry it a few times a week in my pocket. I removed the clip since the knife is small enough to be pocketable. I have no concern about it opening in my pocket.

I have found the QC to be good on the Axis locks. I got a 710 before the 705 which was one of the reasons I got the 705. QC is better than on their linerelock series AFCKs, IMO. No problems in opening mine. The knife flicks easy. The blade does not have enough mass to open easy as a gravity knife like the 710.

My main problem is that there is a lot handle compared to blade. I would be much happier with it if it were thinner. The blade shape is rather narrow, too. Still I have kept it. Its incredibly smooth. No doubt though the design works a lot better in the 710 size than this one.

 

[e_utopia]

Um, get some looser pants, dude!

I can't imagine wearing pants tight enough to pull back the Axis lock bar. As for the pivot being loose, it should not ever be so loose that the blade falls out when the lock bar is retracted. Even with the bar retracted, you should still have to flick your wrist to make the blade leave the handle.

Quick question: what are the circumstances of you handling this knife?

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

 

[Matt Shade]

You mean you can't imagine wearing pants that fit? Heres a tip- If you have to carry a one handed folder because your other hand is busy holding your pants up, your pants are to big.
I don't wear super tight pants, I wear pants that fit. I'd like to see some of you dorks that go around with your pants down around your knees spend a day baling straw or try sitting on a horse

I was seeing how the knife would be to carry in my back pocket, granted theres not as much room in that pocket as a hip pocket.But thats where I carry my knives, and since the 705 wouldn't work for that , thats one of the reasons I don't like it.
As for the circumstances of me seeing the knife- What does that matter?
If you have to know I stole it, decided I didn't like it and sold it on the street. No, my friend just got one and he let me see it. How does that change anything?

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It'll feel better when it stops hurting.

 

[e_utopia]

Nope, I wear regular old pants. I still can't see how your pocket is that tight that it could pull back the lock bar; the 'Omega springs' are fairly sturdy, and the tips of the bar don't stick out that much. Really perplexing.

As for the circumstances of you seeing it, I was wondering if it had been in a sealed box, or if it might have been adjusted by someone after shipping from Benchmande. I know some dealers like to adjust knives before selling them, so the fault might not lay with Benchmade on the tightness.

--JB

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e_utopia@hotmail.com

 

[Matt Shade]

In that case, I don't know if it had been adjusted already. It was in the original box and everything but he had opened it before I saw it. I guess I would rather have one to stiff than have one with a wobbley blade, but it would be nice if a $100 knife came with everything in working order.

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It'll feel better when it stops hurting.

 

[StarPD]

Bad news, Matt:
It ain't ever gonna stop hurting.

As for BMs, I've heard lots about erratic QC. Since I only have one, I guess that's all I can comment on.

I have an auto Stryker, and it is perfect in every way. Being an avid, no, belay that, make it a rabid Microtech fan, owner and user, I HAD to compare it to them. I find overall quality in smoothness, fit and finish to be a lot closer than I expected. The blade, while almost as sharp out of the box, is considerably coarser. The most noticable difference is the size and weight. for the size and type of blade. It is considerably bigger and heavier than my MT equivalents. It IS quite beefy though, and would be pretty hard to hurt. But barring that, outside of the fact that I have all the knives I need (and want; the critical issue) I wouldn't hesitate to buy another. In fact, I AM still considering buying a MINI-auto-Stryker.

FWIW, I consider the blade design and execution on the Stryker to be exceeded only by the MT HALO III, and to me, that's saying something.

In summary, despite the BM problem with QC, I must say that I wouldn't eliminate them from strong consideration. But I might want to actually handle the one I wanted, ask the dealer to hand pick one for me, or reserve the right to exchange it.
As usual, YMMV.



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George
StarPD

 

[Codeman]

I've had 3 705 since around June, 1999. One's a pre-prod, one's a first prod, and the last is my daily carry. All three work flawlessly now. I did do a little tuning to each and they do need some time to break in and settle some. One thing that I found to really help how smooth the blade opens is to put TufGlide on the pivot and let it sit for a day or so. Do this about 3 times. Then, after the third app, use it a few days. As soon as the carrier is completely dried (takes several days in such tight quarters), you won't believe the difference. The blade on my carry will now swing almost as if it's not attached to anything at all, yet it has zero play. This knife has been my daily companion for over a year and only shows signs of use, not wear. I have a couple of customs that I though were smooth until I got my 705 dialed in. If it fits your hand, these are great knives.

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Knowledge without understanding is knowledge wasted.
Understanding without knowledge is a rare gift - but not an impossibility.
For the impossible is always possible through faith. - Bathroom graffiti, gas station, Grey, TN, Dec, 1988

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