Bows Versus Crossbows

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Aug 4, 2002
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I was watching one of my favorite movies, THE ROAD WARRIOR, for the 100th time, which features a lot of post-apocalypse survivors armed with bows and crossbows.

If you were in that find yourself in that sort of situation and had a choice of weapon, what would you choose? Obviously, the main use would be for hunting and self defense. Reliability would also be key, of course.

Ever watch MAIL CALL on the History Channel? A guy makes a pretty nice native American arrow in less than 1/2 hr. in it.

I would assume the crossbows would have an edge in ease of use, since in the old days they could give these things to green troops and with a little training they would become a dangerous threat. I also assume that the bolt from a crossbow has more punch than an arrow since it could penetrate the plate armor of a medival knight on horseback. I'm sure the bow would have an advantage in rate of fire, though.

Are compound setups as reliable as non-compound bows/crossbows? Any recommendations as to makes or models? What kind of money are we talking about here?

Bruise
 
There is a LOT of info about this topic through various bowhunting debates. (I can make some generalizations in an attempt to provide some info without getting flamed.);)
The crossbow has some advantages in that it can be maintained in a cocked position and does not have to be drawn at the moment of the shot. However, due to the draw weight of the prod and alignment issues, it is not necessarily "faster." It is not too good for your back to pull a 150# prod and pulling with your hands and can usually result in misalignment of the string. The cable or mechanical methods usually result in better horizontal string alignment and thus more accuracy.
IN GENERAL, lighter (read shorter, as in crossbow bolts) arrows sustain less energy and thus have less penetration than a heavier arrow. Remember, that is in general. Sufficient velocity can change this equation!!:D
Crossbows are really not THAT fast to use and historically the longbow has faired much better. A hunter who is skilled with a traditional bow can get more arrows in the target accurately faster than a crossbow shooter OR a guy with a coumpound . . . GENERALLY speaking!;)
I have yet to shoot a crossbow that could compare in accuracy to a compound bow given the great possibility for misalignment and the short axle-to-axle length. That said, compound crossbows are MUCH more efficient (read powerful) than their simple prod counterparts.
I think you would be shocked at the penetration difference between the penetration capabilities of a high-end crossbow and an old style longbow with a longer arrow. That is probably why you don't see to many folks hunting truly big game with a crossbow.)
Remember, these are OPINIONS . . . not tinder for flames from crossbow advocates. Hollywood can make it appear that a small, pistol sized crossbow can shoot an arrow flatly and kill someone at 50 yards quickly. (Worst scene of this was in the three musketeers when one of the guys kills a man on the rooftop of the castle from easily 75-100 yards . . . that bolt, out of that minicrossbow would not have FLOWN that far . . . much less had energy to kill someone!!) BUT, As a good friend once said . . . "opinions are like belly-buttons, everybody has them and they usually only get in trouble when they start trying to show them off!":D ;) :D
 
There's been a lot posted on www.netsword.com on the subject, much of it from me. Here and now I'll just point out the most common point of confusion -- cast doesn't depend on peak draw weight; it depends on how hard the bow pushes the arrow for how long. To compare crossbows to longbows, recurves, compounds, etc. measure the draw weight over each inch of the draw and multipy the average force of the bow over its entire draw length by the draw length -- compare inch-pounds, not just pounds.

If the crossbow prod and the longer bow are of the same kind -- both recurves, both compounds, whatever -- then you can get an approximate figure for comparison by multiplying the peak draw weight by the length of the arrow or bolt. If you try to compare a simple straight bow to a recurve or compound just by peak draw weight you'll be misled.

In approximate terms, a typical crossbow has about half the draw length of a typical longbow, so the crossbow needs about twice the peak draw weight to achieve equal cast.

Crossbows don't take as long to wind up as most people think. Some of the guys at netsword timed how fast they could shoot various kinds of crossbows, and found even with powerful windlass-cranked crossbows with a 2,000 pound draw (900kg) they can fire a bolt every few seconds -- not as fast as a longbow, but the popular idea of cranking it for a minute or more between shots is wrong.
 
Last of the V-8 Interceptors. A piece of history. It woulda been a shame to blow it up."

That movie RULES!

Frank
 
Originally posted by Jason Burns
It is not too good for your back to pull a 150# prod and pulling with your hands and can usually result in misalignment of the string.
O.K., I can see how cocking one of these babies can be hard on your back, but why would there be alignment problems? Isn't the bolt centered in a groove in the crossbow reciever(?), and isn't whatever catches the string centered too?

Hollywood can make it appear that a small, pistol sized crossbow can shoot an arrow flatly and kill someone at 50 yards quickly. (Worst scene of this was in the three musketeers when one of the guys kills a man on the rooftop of the castle from easily 75-100 yards . . . that bolt, out of that minicrossbow would not have FLOWN that far . . . much less had energy to kill someone!!)
My favorite Hollywood crossbow scene is in THE WILD GEESE where Hardy Kruger, the South African policeman, takes out sentries with a scoped crossbow with cynanide shafts!

Bruise
 
Originally posted by SilverFoxKnows
Last of the V-8 Interceptors. A piece of history. It woulda been a shame to blow it up."

That movie RULES!

Frank
"Phase Four Heads, burns nitro!"

"The blower Max, the blower!!!"

God I love those Mad Max Movies. Except for that aweful third one, which I don't even consider a Mad Max film since he doesn't even have a car in it! I still keep a 1970 Ford Torino with a 429 4V in honor of the best cars ever to roll out of Detroit. When I race it I can literally get less than ONE MILE PER GALLON. And thats with headers, 2 1/2" dual exhausts, and elecronic ignition too! It's so old now I don't have to deal with those moronic smog tests anymore! YAY!

Too many hobbies, not enough time or money.

Bruise
 
Originally posted by Bruise Lee
why would there be alignment problems? Isn't the bolt centered in a groove in the crossbow reciever(?), and isn't whatever catches the string centered too?
The bolt IS centered in the flight rails for most of it's short trip. However, crossbow strings, like all bow strings, has a serving. That serving helps to make the string more durable but in the case of a crossbow it causes it to hold in the trigger exactly where it is pulled. That can result in more pressure on one side of the prod and a launch that is misaligned. If you get the chance to shoot one you'll see how it happens and how the bolt flies when it does.
(Cougar is right on about the "cast" issue. It is always a function of draw length . . . something no crossbow has much of.)
 
Hey Guys....


First let me respond to Bruise's question...

In this case I'm going to use a recurve crossbow for the example..

While cocked. If one limp is compressed more than the other, either by an improper cock, or by a bumb or dropping the bow,, the placement of the string can change..
This change from side to side can have a major impact on the flight of the arrow.... The string must be centered pefectly... I use a rope cocker for my first shot while hunting, and when sighting in....

Now for Jason....:)


""I have yet to shoot a crossbow that could compare in accuracy to a compound bow given the great possibility for misalignment and the short axle-to-axle length. That said, compound crossbows are MUCH more efficient (read powerful) than their simple prod counterparts.""


Jason... I'd love for you to shoot my Ecalibur Exocet Recurve crossbow sometime. Even with the possibility for misalignment, it is an Extremely accurate bow. I consistently shoot a 3 bolt group into a large pill bottle cap at 30 yards. Many of us Excalibur shooters while taget practicing never shoot in the same place twice, due to the high rate of Robin Hoods and bolt damage caused by very tight groups. I purposefully keep my bow slightly undertuned to help prevent bolt damage.


""I think you would be shocked at the penetration difference between the penetration capabilities of a high-end crossbow and an old style longbow with a longer arrow. That is probably why you don't see to many folks hunting truly big game with a crossbow.) ""


My 180# Exocet pushes a 20 inch bolt out the gate at roughly 285 ft per sec.

as far as hunting big game with a crossbow.. It's pretty commom for crossbow hunters here in Ontario to hunt moose with their bows. There is no doubt that a high end recurve can take down a moose just as easy as any compound bow made...

I think there are a lot of misconceptions and misinformation about the new aged crossbow. Basically the design of my crossbow hasn't changed for some 3000 years. The Excalibur, by far the best hunting crossbow on the market.. It is quite literally, the Sebenza of the crossbow world.:)

ttyle

Eric..
 
Originally posted by Normark
Jason... I'd love for you to shoot my Ecalibur Exocet Recurve crossbow sometime.

Eric,
I'd love to take ya up on that!;) Unfortunately the commute between Nicaragua and Canada might be tough. I think crossbows are a lot of fun to shoot. I have heard that the Excaliburs and by far the most accurate and it seems that most target shooters use them. I am admittedly biased toward traditional bows if for no other reason than the simplicity of a stick and a string with no sights. My experience shooting crossbows is limited to Horton and Barnett and one that I made myself when I was younger. I can't/won't deny that I'd rather be shooting one of my longbows . . . just like 'em and am consistently impressed with their capabilities and forgiving nature.:D :D
Just don't shoot at any moose with a crossbow pistol please . . . I like your sheaths to much for you to wind up a greasy spot!;) LOL
 
We have had a lot of deer poaching in this area recently by use of crossbows.The persons have been poaching for the antlers,and the local officers are watching for anyone carrying or shooting a crossbow.It's a rather biased approach to anyone using one,but I would have a good explanation if I was stopped for any reason with one in my vehicle.Not fair,but with the profits and high dollars for antlers nowdays Conservation officers are really getting tough!Perhaps crossbows are easier to shoot accurately in poor light is probably the contributing factor for all this.One poaching ring in this area was recently busted.They were using .270 rifles with night vision,wearing snow camo,and working for an Iowa City taxidermist.
 
Hello all,
I was just reading up on trad English Longbows. This is going off topic slightly but I though you may be interested in the trivia.

The English longbow was consistently used against man sized targets at 200 yards (max effective range 400)If an archer could not release 10 arrows per minute and hit the aforesaid target at 200 yds he was not considered 'up to snuff'.

A traditional arrow of 700~800 grains could penetrate 4 inches of seasoned Oak! :eek:

At less than 200 yards armour plate was no protection

The arrow was rested on top of the index finger.

The average draw weigth was 80~120 pounds

Wowza! is all I can say!
 
A crossbow would probably have a very narrow advantage on that first shot, but any subsequent follow up shots would be your disadvantage. As a kid, I used to be an avid bowhunter. I always used a recurve bow. I could get off that first shot almost as quick as any crossbow. However, my follow up shots were unbeatable. I could generally get off three shots on a running jackrabbit before it went to ground.

If it was the end of the world, and you needed it for defense, you would be better off with a simple recurve. The crossbow would be slow to reload.
 
Originally posted by Temper
The English longbow was consistently used against man sized targets at 200 yards (max effective range 400)If an archer could not release 10 arrows per minute and hit the aforesaid target at 200 yds he was not considered 'up to snuff'.

Wowza! is all I can say!

:D :D :D DAMM!!! Most of the guys I know can't do that with a modern centerfire rifle - and I'm talking semi-auto fired from the bench!

Bruise
 
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