Buck 650, some questions

Joined
Aug 9, 2010
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126
Hey all,
I'm headed out to CO in a couple weeks for a little elk hunting. Was going to pick up a BK2 for my camp knife, but thought, what the hey, maybe I'll take my old 650. Questions: Can I baton this thing? The blade is nice and heavy and assume it will handle it. I need to scrounge up some kindling and the like and do not wanna take my hatchet. Also, it's due for a sharpening, and wondered what angle y'all put on your camp knife. I'm gonna use the crap outa this thing.
Thanks guys!
Jiffy
650.jpg
 
If you're worried about the edge bring a file and a couple of stones. I used to own one and it had a fantastic edge from the factory (I wouldn't change the angle), but I sell a lot of stuff to fund other stuff. I'm seriously considering buying one I saw on ebay with a fancy custom sheath.

I'd baton it and just go easy. I wouldn't try and baton a 6" log, but I'd bet a 2" would be okay.
 
You might find batoning a hollow ground blade a little frustrating, depending on how deep the hollowgrind is, ive had some that will go as deep as the spine and thats it. I havent handled a Night Hawk in a while but i recall the were pretty stout, you might be alright.
 
It's a knife. Cut with it.

Chop with an axe.

How often does this need to be said on this forum?

:confused::eek::confused:
 
If you're Elk hunting you have room for a small axe.

For those who don't have a small camping axe (or think they're expensive)......try going to a few estate auctions or, better yet, farm auctions.


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These are light and handy, perfectly tight and nice and sharp. They came that way.

One cost me $8 and one cost me $11. That was only a couple of years ago. That's the beauty of going to auctions.

Many and varied are the uses of a good lightweight camping axe. They save time and can prevent the tragic accidents from the dangerous and highly unwise sport called "Batoning."

And they also help bring an end to the need for people to call the national knife abuse 800 number.


;)
 
yeah, a hatchet is always a better option than using a knife to split wood. But many knives are build heavy enough to use for splitting wood. If a guy wants to use a knife instead of a hatchet how's that my concern?
 
It's not your concern.

I'm not talking about hatchets.

Many and varied are the uses of a good lightweight camping axe. They save time and can prevent the tragic accidents from the dangerous and highly unwise sport called "Batoning."

And they also help bring an end to the need for people to call the national knife abuse 800 number.

;)
 
I don't know why anybody would baton a knife in any situation other than an emergency. It makes no sense to plan to use your knife in a fashion it wasn't made for. If it was made to baton, it would have come with the baton and instructions for proper use. I always try to live by the 5 Ps. Proper Preperation Prevents Poor Performance. Don't go out to the field planning to use your knife improperly...
 
I don't know why anybody would baton a knife in any situation other than an emergency. It makes no sense to plan to use your knife in a fashion it wasn't made for. If it was made to baton, it would have come with the baton and instructions for proper use.

Why would anybody want to use a fire steel to start a fire when they could just throw some gasoline on some logs and start it right up with a bic?

People want to know what their tools are capable of so when they need them for an emergency they know what to expect. If you break a knife batoning, buy a stronger knife. Look at Ethan Becker's knives, he states that battoning is a 'proper' use of his knives.
I don't understand this whole deal with people getting upset about how other people use their tools. If I want to drive my truck off road is that a no-no as well, since I might hurt it?
 
You know, I have never once had to trade off carrying somebody out of the mountains who'd split their foot down the middle with a knife. I have, however, had to carry somebody out of the mountains with a split foot...wanna guess what the offending tool was? :) This is not to imply that axes are too dangerous, mind you, but merely that any tool that's not controlled properly is a liability.

The Buck 650 is absurdly tough---the hollow grind is not (as has been mentioned) the best for this use in terms of actually inducing the wood to split properly, but this particular hollow grind is ground so thick that fragility isn't a concern. Where you're more likely to run into trouble is actually using a baton successfully on it, as the sharply sloping spine and swedge grind are going to be both difficult to hit well and hard on your baton. Still, cave men managed it with tapered rocks, so with some dedicated effort you can manage it. Keep the handle above the point at all times, vigorously tap with your baton as opposed to wailing on it as though trying to beat a rhino to death, and keep yourself out from under it!

I successfully batoned 1/16" Old Hickory butcher knives to split firewood for years and years before this forum was around and before I knew to refer to it as "batoning" (in the old days it was, "tapping the knife through wood with a stick") and never came up with any damage.

Those who argue so much against batoning have never, ever been able to answer this question, though I've posed it dozens of times as this subject has come up: What, precisely, is the purpose of thick-bladed knives if you are supposed to use them in exactly the same way that you'd use an exacto knife? Hmmm? If a knife is ONLY supposed to open envelopes, trim cuticles and occasionally spread butter (so long as it isn't too cold/firm and hence dangerous) than why do 1/4" thick spines and saber grinds exist? I mean, compared to a paper thin, flat ground blade they don't fillet a fish very well, do they? Or slice cheese. So why, for centuries, have such implements existed? Please, do tell me.

Slicing is cutting, scraping is cutting, dicing is cutting, and chopping is cutting. You're using a sharp object to separate another object into more pieces than it was in when you found it. There are many tactical knives out there that have edge profiles more robust than many quality axes, and there's nothing magical about the word "axe" than imbues a sharp piece of steel with more toughness than another sharp piece of steel that's called a "knife." More steel at the edge equals more strength at the edge, period. Can you damage a knife batoning? Yes. On the other hand, I've batoned (with hammers, no less) chisels through very hard wood with edge profiles that are FAR thinner than any factory knife, and so have millions of other people. The secret is being in control of what you're doing. People who know and are proficient with their tools won't damage them, regardless of use. People who aren't in control----well, I'm certainly not going to suggest to them that they'll be safer swinging an axe!

Does an axe beat a knife in chopping/splitting/moving wood? Of course it does--its geometry and balance are tailored to it. And a chainsaw beats an axe. And an industrial chainsaw beats a regular chainsaw. And not going out into the woods at all to build makeshift shelters and camp fires to cook on, but rather staying inside of real shelter with a microwave beats all of that crap. I mean, come on, by the time I've paid for my hunting/fishing licenses and all of the requisite gear that goes along with them I could eat several times in a damned fine restaurant, if we're being purely practical. But lets face it, outdoor adventuring of any kind at all is hardly ever about practicality, it's about fun. Some out there have more fun swinging a knife than an axe, and some prefer the other. Those swinging an axe are going to get farther moving wood. Those not carrying an axe are going to get farther down the trail. Both are capable of doing WAY more damage than they need to do in order to thrive in the scrub, especially for the unfortunately-few days that most any of us can actually get free to go and do it. You don't need to fell trees in order to camp. If you NEED wood that's greater than 3" in diameter, you're doing something wrong. And, at that size, you can split it with a slipjoint--but it's far safer to do it with a fixed blade.

Those who don't want to use a knife to baton, fine. I personally don't want to use a perfectly beautiful expanse of sloping grassland to golf. That said, there are plenty of others who do and there's really no point in my constantly trying to convince them that they're wrong for doing it.
 
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LOL!

Nobody's trying to convince the "Batonners" to stop their antics.

That would be like trying to convince a bear to stay away from picnic baskets.

We should, however, tell them that they're wrong.

Here's a post from a guy called Messersmith from a few years ago.

Well I am absolutely heartbroken.... I had my new Nighthawk out in the backyard this afternoon and broke it in under 30 minutes

I started off cutting some rope and cardboard then moved to my wood pile. After taking a few pics of the knife, I tried splitting a few small chunks of maple firewood. My "technique" was to lay the cutting edge across the log and hit the back of the blade with another chunk. The first chunk was rendered into kindling with no problem. One wack on the second chunk and the blade breaks cleanly about 1/4 inch in front of the guard. I'm left holding the handle while the blade is stuck in the wood.

Is this gross abuse or should the knife have held up? Maybe I used the wrong technique? I'm mostly kind of pissed at myself for breaking it <-- , but there is a small part of me that thinks the knife should have held up without a problem

Anyway, I have a note into Joe to see if this is something he would cover under warranty or if I chalk this up to stupidity and go buy another one.

There's nothing wrong with a word FROM the wise to those who really need it.

;)
 
I'm not upset by any means. I could care less what you do or if you get hurt doing it. That may sound a bit harsh but I don't know you. If I did that would be different. People in an emergency situation will do what ever they have to, to survive. I understand being perpared for these type of situations. But to just go out in your back yard and do it for fun, is ridiculous and dangerous. I think you should try to use the right tool for the right job. Thats not to say that in an emergency the tool on hand can't be used to accomplish whatever task you need to stay alive. I know how to cauterize a wound, But I dont go in my yard and practice the techineque...
 
I don't see anywhere in the original post/question where the OP asked if he "should", only if he "could". I don't think he was asking for permisson. ;)
 
Sorry, I missed this question.

(Especially sorry, since you say you have posted it "dozens" of times with "never, ever" an answer.)

I guess I just didn't see any of those posts.

I will try to help.

Those who argue so much against batoning have never, ever been able to answer this question, though I've posed it dozens of times as this subject has come up: What, precisely, is the purpose of thick-bladed knives if you are supposed to use them in exactly the same way that you'd use an exacto knife? Hmmm? If a knife is ONLY supposed to open envelopes, trim cuticles and occasionally spread butter (so long as it isn't too cold/firm and hence dangerous) than why do 1/4" thick spines and saber grinds exist? I mean, compared to a paper thin, flat ground blade they don't fillet a fish very well, do they? Or slice cheese. So why, for centuries, have such implements existed? Please, do tell me.

For use in combat, mainly. People, in centuries gone by, used to kill each other with knives far more often than they do now.

The false romance and mystique of being in combat has an allure that makes people buy these knives today.

Going mano a mano with a sword or a huge knife is a popular theme in movies and television and manly fantasies.

Not that a combat knife has no other uses.....clearly it serves as a shovel and an axe and a pry bar in a pinch, but we are rarely so pinched in contemporary civilian life.

It may be stating the obvious too obviously, but very few of us (less than one percent) are now in a combat or dire survival situation--but we still can imagine.

So, it's mostly about fantasy except for the few who are actually making their living going in harm's way.
 
Well, I actually HAVE been in combat, but disappointingly was a soldier in a firearms era, and used my multi-tool about five hundred times as much as my fixed blade.

That said, it's nice to finally be set straight, and discover that makers like Marbles, Randall and Ruana have all, for decades, been producing outdoor knives specifically for wannabe fools like Ron Hood, Ray Mears and Ethan Becker. We're lucky to have someone with your wisdom on these boards. ;)
 
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How can you call someone a fool who has profited from the sale and distribution of such knives?

I'd call them smart rather than fools.

;)
 
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