Buck 881 framelock or full slab conversion?

somniloquist

somniloquist

Joined
Aug 9, 2007
Messages
1,445
Hello STR,

Let me first say that I have been lurking your board for the better part of the afternoon and I am very, very impressed by the calibre of your work. Your "Backyard Knifeworks" seems a bid misleadingly named. ;)

I also noticed that you seem to have some experience modding the Buck Strider Mini series. I have a used 881 spearpoint on the way to me and I'm already thinking of how to change it around before it even arrives. I hear that this model is a bit notorious for its liner locks not holding up too well. Anyway, I'm thinking of doing a framelock conversion, since I've never had the privilege of owning one and I thought I would inquire as to how much that might cost. Also, I'm not a huge G10 fan and was wondering how much more it might cost to add a titanium slab to the non-locking side. If you could please let me know, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks very much!
 
Thats a tough folder to convert. I've done one. You can see the sole model I did in my link to my blog in my posts bottom left. Click on Sept. down arrow once the site pulls up and you can scroll down and find the pics moving to the next after each one by scrolling down to 'older posts' and moving until the last pic that way from page to page. I forget how many I posted there. I have a start to finish thread on it here somewhere too some pages back by now I'm sure.

Truth be told I really appreciate you asking me about it but I don't think I want to do another one of the 880/881 series Buck/Strider folders. It was among the toughest folders I've ever converted. Truthfully, I was surprised I pulled it off at all. I scrapped two attempts until finally pulling a rabbit out of my hat on the third one. If I had failed then I'd have given up on it. When all was said and done I think I had 20 hours of solid design work and labor tied up in that folder. It was the most expensive conversion I've ever done for anyone @ $370.

Thanks for your kind words by the way.

STR
 
Oh yeah. You know on the locks that came on that folder. These are actually very good folders. I've had several. On all but one the blades had what we call 'roll' to them. What happened was that for whatever reason the lock contacted the blade a tad higher than it should have to be solid.

Generally speaking without getting into big detail the idea on any liner of frame lock is to have a lock contact as far away from the midline of the pivot as possible to create that lock contact where the lock and blade meet. If your lock contacts too close to the pivot or at the top third of the lock instead of the bottom third you end up with blade roll. I was able to fix every one sent to me for this and make the locks solid as they should be with little more than a five minute tweak to the lock to increase the contact at the bottom and sometimes take some out of the middle. This transferred the contact pressure to the point that was more stable for a rock solid contact of the lock, and blade stop giving you the lock it should have been from the factory. Buck isn't the only company to have done this on some. Its a hit or miss on them. Like I said one out of four that I personally bought new had a perfect lock so some are correct. I have had two BenchMade frame locks with blade roll also and from the same thing where the lock is contacting the blade at a point too close to the mid line of the pivot barrel to be rock solid.

Ideally you form a tripod with the pivot in the middle and two contact points for the blade spread out which in the folding knife is the stop pin and the lock contact. Again, if your lock contact is just off by a little bit you get what can still end up being a very reliable and even strong lock but there will be always be tell tale movement in the blade during some uses. This is what you are hearing about I'm sure because I've personally repaired a dozen or more for forum members writing me of their own accord asking about it.

Once again thanks for asking.

STR
 
Wow, what an informative reply and in such short order! I really appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts with me about that particular model. If you will indulge me just a bit further, I'm curious; which folders would you say are "easier" conversions to framelocks?

I've had my eye on a couple Emersons, but I dislike the way that the G10 on the clip side seems to erode away my pant pocket linings so much. I have also noticed that you seem to have converted a couple. I'm fairly new to this hobby (obsession?) of ours and I am genuinely curious to know. Anyway, thanks again for your help. It's always nice to hear someone knowledgeable speak their mind about something I am passionate about.
 
Any of the bigger folders are tougher because its more titanium to wrestle and thicker titanium too usually. I guess some are easier than others at times but when I say easier though its not really that its any different since they all involve much the same in the way of steps and how they work. Its more that less seems to come up with some vs others and they just go together and work with less fuss. Maybe part of the difficulty for me on some models is the fact that I've just done so damn many of them and I'm easily bored and hate routine or the same ole same ole rut kind of feeling.

As an example, I've done like 15 of the CQC14 models now for frame lock conversions and quite frankly I've about had it with that one. I really don't want to do anymore of that model at this point. There are some things about that model that make it tough too, like for example the detent ball rides the rim of the folder tang on that one. This is why so many of them kind of sing to you as you rotate the blade. The ball can be seen actually by looking down inside on that one as the blade rotates. If you rebuild the lock and miss by a micron the wrong way the ball can actually come off and then ride back up on the blade and thats not going to cut it with me. If you miss the other way you run into other things with how it looks on the outside.

Some fight you the whole way through and others just seem to almost put themselves together for you. Its a funny thing at times. I hate to really pick one that is easier but if I was going to for Emerson I guess of the Emerson models the CQC7 would be among the easier. For one the cut out using the band saw is pretty straight forward with few deep curves and cut out like many of the others from EKI or Spyderco. I've got two more CQC7 models to do coming up here before too long. I actually look forward to those at this point. Anytime the model is new or one I don't do as often its more exciting for me. That would be the one I'd suggest too because to be perfectly honest with you the HD7 frame lock in the A blade would be the best all around folder on the market bar none. Its the best model Ernie ever came up with and if he offered that model in the A blade I think it would probably be a best seller for him just as the 7 has been for many years by BenchMade and Emerson. I've said for years that the best knife he made was the HD12 frame lock but if he offered the HD7 in the A blade I'd pick that one. Unfortunately now he is not going to be making anymore frame locks at all due to expense.

I have a feeling you'll be seeing more cut backs like that from other companies in the future also, at least until this financial crisis and credit crunch is dealt with.

STR
 
Hmm....it's curious that you mentioned the HD-7, because I have been on the hunt for one of those for a while. I hear people rave about that one and the CQC-12, saying that they are the best EKI ever produced. I presently have a very irresponsibly high bid on one of those at the familiar auction site, just because I've been bitten by this framelock bug and they don't seem to come up too often. Anyway, it's nice to know that I'm not too off with my understanding of those models.

Do you do many slab conversions for the 12? I'm not so keen on shelling out the 500 bucks for the limited edition model, but there is a definite appeal to a handful of unobtainium for your knife over the more familiar G10. Thanks again for your comments.
 
I have replaced a G10 side once on a 12 with a ti slab for someone. Its the only one. Right now all the titanium I have is thicker than the stock titanium used by Emerson. They used anywhere from .120 to .125" thicknesses and my thinnest is .100. After that it jumps up to .140.

I'd have to track down some .125 to match it up but it can be done. I think it was $100 but I'd have to look.

STR
 
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