CA Double Edge laws

G

guitardemon

Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Messages
288
I have a Boker Applegate which is double edged. I was told a few days ago in a shop that double edged knives are illegal in ca. I was wondering if this was true? And I was also wondering what the legality of carrying it (open carry of course) would be if it is not illegal. Thanks,
John
 
CA Penal Code 12020

(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:

...
(4) Carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger.
...
(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
Click to expand...
Taken from here.

A folding, locking double-edge knife is OK to carry concealed. There's nothing that differentiates between being single edged or double edged. Fixed or folding. So's long as the blade isn't open, but who the heck carried an opened pocket knife? I guess the law assumes that doing so effectively makes the knife like a fixed blade which would require open carry. Any sort of fixed blade appears to fall under the "Dagger/Dirk" definition. The only types of knives that you can't carry under any circumstance are switchblades/balisongs 2" and over in blade length.
 
Planterz quoted the relevant law. You'll note that it only prohibits concealed carry of daggers (or any other fixed blade for that matter). Thus double edged knives are not illegal per se. As a practical matter, however, I would expect that the police would look unfavorably upon anyone wearing one openly. No problems buying or owning one.

A double edged folder would definitely be legal as long as its closed in your pocket.

Your mileage may vary.

Best regards,

Argyll
 
Oh yeah, also check your local laws (and the areas around you). Counties and cities will often have their own additional restrictions (but never lesser, state laws can't be overridden by a municipality). Check your town/county, and any towns/counties that you might enter in normal daily travel.
 
Planterz said:
Counties and cities will often have their own additional restrictions (but never lesser, state laws can't be overridden by a municipality).
Click to expand...
In theory, you are correct. However, there are some cities that override laws made by higher legislative bodies. For example, in Los Angeles it's not illegal to be an illegal alien.
 
Please be careful,
According to a recent police academy friend of mine, and a bunch of other legally minded knife nuts, a double edged knife is a felony-PERIOD. You can, in all likelyhood have it at home in a collection, but if a police stops you for something and searches you and finds a double edged knife, folder or fixed, it is a felony and you go to jail. It is not worth it. There are too many well designed single edged blades, fixed and folding, to risk the trouble of a double edged blade.
 
Unfortunately it is advisable to carry a copy of pc 12020 in your wallet or car. Most law enforcement are not aware of the law changes in CA years ago. Even a screwdriver can be conceived as a dirk or dagger because it has the ability to used as a stabbing instrument. If you do have a knife taken away make sure you get a receipt for it. Also ask for field officer if a regular po is giving you a bad time. I once asked this question of a SGT that was a training officer for a pd. He was unaware of the changes. After reading the code and several cases, he did agree on being misinformed. He never got back to me as to whether his training included updating trainees of the change. Decide for yourself! Good luck.
 
garythenuke said:
Please be careful,
If a police stops you for something and searches you and finds a double edged knife, folder or fixed, it is a felony and you go to jail. It is not worth it. There are too many well designed single edged blades, fixed and folding, to risk the trouble of a double edged blade.
Click to expand...

While I don't necessarily disagree that its not worth the trouble, I challenge you to show me any law that states that possession of an unconcealed double edged fixed blade, or concealed double edged closed folder is against California law. And no, the word of a cop is not good enough.

Best regards,

Argyll
 
Argyll,
I will not accept a challenge. What an assenine thing to write. If you think you know better than anyone else or better than a cop fresh out of the academy then GOOD LUCK to you.

Cops fresh out are indeed the hottest on the new laws. They have to know all the codes to graduate. All I can say is have fun in court when your double edged pocket knife or whatever lands you in front of a felony charge. It is not worth the hassle in any event.

There are too many single blades that are much more legal than any double edged blade that can do identical damage. If you just want the thrill of a double edged blade, go buy a Klingon Fantasy sword and strap it to your back. That ought to get your testosterone pumping. CPK has done real world research, and you need to CYA on this stuff.
 
Argyll,
I will not accept a challenge. What an assenine thing to write. If you think you know better than anyone else or better than a cop fresh out of the academy then GOOD LUCK to you.
Click to expand...

Oh dear, dear, dear. All I asked was for you to back up what you posted. You say it's "a felony-PERIOD." Well that's a pretty strong statement. I believe you are mistaken and I have explained why. (Usually I quote the statutory language, or at least cite to it, but there was no need here as Planterz had already posted it. For the sake of completeness the law on daggers (12020) can be found here and switchblades (653K) here.)

Cops fresh out are indeed the hottest on the new laws. They have to know all the codes to graduate. All I can say is have fun in court when your double edged pocket knife or whatever lands you in front of a felony charge.
Click to expand...

Great! You can ask your friend, the freshly minted cop what statute makes it a felony to carry an unconcealed dagger, or closed double edged folder. If he can point you to one, then I'll have learned something. If he can't than perhaps you and he will have.

It is not worth the hassle in any event.
Click to expand...

If you actually read my posts above you will see I never said that it was, and indeed advised against it.

I won't bother responding to the rest of your personal attacks except to say this is the Internet, and you don't know who am I, or what I may or may not know. I am careful to separate my statements of fact from opinion, and readers are free to consider my prior postings and to decide what weight to give them.

Best regards,

Argyll
 
Gentlemen, I started a old thread on 10-03-2002 on this same subject. Do a search on it and if some one could bring in up as a link that would be great. It involved several knowlegable people and goes to show what a hot topic this can be. You can carry an exposed double edge blade or you can carry a folded double edge blade in your pocket. The law is very vague for a particular reason. You could even be arrested for carrying a screwdriver in your pocket. Why, because it is an instrument that is concealed and could be capable of being used as a stabbing instrument. I have learned from my research that most people and alot of leo still think that double edge is still illegal in State of California. If you want to carry one, you have the legal right to do so. Just be aware that it might not be your lucky day!
 
My Bad. You're right, I am wrong. Please accept my apoligies. I overreacted and did not have all the facts. My keyboard, and you, took the brunt my daily frustration: :barf:

I am certain I have not strung that many derrogatory thougts together in a decade, much less typed them. You are absolutely right, I do not know you, you do not know me, and we will in all probability never meet. You did not deserve the things I wrote. I have alot of excuses, but no reasons. I am sorry, it will not happen again.
 
What is legal to do and what a person can get away with are generally two different things. If I consider myself part of the local militia I should by the letter of the law be able to carry an automatic but I wouldn't want to spend the time nor the money having to convince a judge or local officer of that. Being a native California, I've watch this state be overcome with laws that are suffocating our freedoms and it sickens me with each new law. Their are people in power that will do what they can to herd us like sheep. To protect us for our own good. I think we should use our energy to argue against them and their agendas than against ourselves. IMHO


"I'd rather run with the wolves than be herded with the sheep"
 
Please understand that cops are NOT great resources on the law. Even one fresh out of the academy. They're better resources than nothing, or than "word on the street," but they are not lawyers or D.A.s They are trained in a classroom and by training officers on the law, and their instructors and training officers are also not lawyers or D.A.s.

Cops did not take the job because they wanted to learn about the law, or because they were good at reading statutes and interpreting court cases. They became cops because they wanted a good career, wanted to help people, and wanted to fight crime (plus a few who want to be cowboys).

Cops can give you a very good idea of what they'll arrest you for. This is useful information. But the end result of the encounter will depend on whether you actually violated the law, which will depend on you, your lawyer if you need one, and the D.A. The end result depends on the law itself.

Nowhere in California law is a double-edged blade mentioned. You should treat them as any other knife with a single-edged blade. But keep in mind that a cop--just as he told you--will be more likely to arrest you for a double-edged blade because they *believe* they're illegal. They might let you go if you have a 5" single-edged folder, but hook and book you because you have a 2" double-edged blade. Add this to your knowledge before carrying your double-edged blade. But arm yourself with a thorough knowledge of the Penal Code and any court cases that interpret the relevant statutes. The law librarian at a county law library (located in big courthouses) or at your local law school can help you find the "annotated codes" that will be your starting point.

Edited to add: There are exceptions to the above. But they typically won't be a rookie cop. They'll be a cop who's in a leadership position who also happens to be an intelligent, well-read type of person who knows his or her stuff. Just like you probably won't get expert ballistics info from a rookie cop, but there are cops in the department that know a hell of a lot about ballistics if you know where to find them. A friend of mine is an LAPD sergeant and knows the weapons laws as well as any lawyer. But several times he has had to explain to his officers who've arrested someone for "carrying a concealed dirk or dagger" that a locking, one-hand opening folder that's completely concealed (this part relates to local laws) is legal, despite his officers' being 100% convinced they had a felony arrest.
 
There are plenty of cops out there who are responsible enough to keep themselves up to date on current changes in law and recent case law. Even though a cop may find it interesting that you are carrying a double edged knife, they cannot legally arrest you for carrying one unless you have it concealed. The new cop who just got out of the academy who said a double edged knife is a felony, period, is exactly that, a new cop. Being a cop is just like any other career. You become more knowledgable as you gain experience, not the other way around.
 
ndarnell wouldn't it be legal to carry a double edge folding knife in your pocket? Thanks for your reply.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top