Can anyone post pictures of the Kailash Karda and Chakmak?

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Dec 5, 2021
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The FAQ states "The addition of a Karda and Chakmak is $10 usd." Can anyone post photos of examples of the Karda and Chakmak?
 
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Dec 29, 2021
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2
I think they might charge slightly more to add K&C for certain materials? (I vaguely recall reading that somewhere, but I might be imagining that.)
This is a recently made HSI, horn and brass, unpolished, w/ matching K&C...
y4mvZy9dsO7E3DH8RRLeioxQDhUrd-h0lLLew2XG8ojYMVluKKQjaV3McJImOmupcvftMJcWMzjor8EmZPwXJN01Yy_L63e0KI_Af9TwKBl6LbViViOhJP6P7Gf9amhv1ZmPmdxM_ppLckFogbCZwn0XkiWuwucWV3KSd9C1gKRglr3rOBOgQuodZws3DBop77P

y4m1KRcalvzRYoSfQrZEbZG1y3M7_Cwrpcr0hwZcWps8w_FLZ27n4oKrJQPJmfBGME60mXdmmn9vxEgFMk808G2FOScfOSwta0UL0KV5fX6Ca3b68po1Mrv1b4qiblQNMhC-C62tkwz6JLlP4vrxm2dRP3W8E2BlUZhqi5NNofoNyLrfLoUK1wjuXCDXNOVAAYS

y4mXYUxeN8rXu5QM-H3rdLC0d2U4Ufs9MrLKSBftPTwX2mFThq8zwOWb7Yq6tjBxLK6siIasm2vml61ZOyCQ4YBJtyIUwmkx8NFpcMDQXZw8MR2qGiT2mI_tsjCj0nR5ZwIkFVPd2CIvtk6Ji-o7J-38MLo56_yskxLdNhrlo1kCS-5fovivedSpbCMKc3xqirY

y4mYHyJ7INWTHB-pr3csFeQQZk15JPhcp35GvcvTPFecRahM_Ua3KstxKahjG6LYRLv35-nHRQYHu2-pn_WxmeAK555RCIQK5Xbm4t6srNjnFI0af3jDc-o0k8N5kOAeWCrD7h-GW2am2y_1Jp6Wb-ugZZ4RDkKAIbZgj-pgtncuU4Ie1ULPOoIouBJHZzqavi-
 
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Dec 5, 2021
Messages
6
Wow, those are beautiful additions to a beautiful HSI. From what I've seen, the karda & chakmak included with many kukris seem like low-quality afterthoughts, but those look like their quality is appropriate to that of the main knife. Thank you for the post.
 

Kailash Blades

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Nov 21, 2015
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563
Hey guys! Sorry for the delayed reply here- I've been off on break since christmas.
M meboz thanks for helping out :) For clarity our K&C is currently 10usd, or 15 usd with micarta/stacked leather to match the main blade.
We once had plans to do some more updated modern Karda/Chakmak but they've hit the backburner in favour of some more boring business and system upgrades in the timebeing. I should be heading to Nepal in the next few months and we'll work on finalising a K&C design and integrating it into the standard options on the website.

We'll be looking for a design that is:
-visually compatible with both traditional and modern blades
-different to what's typically on offer from other houses
-highly functional and an asset to the blade rather than obligatory bulk
-tailored to the higher hardness and different edge geometry of our blades
-potentially integrate in some of the other much overlooked tools that would come along with the K&C. EG tinder pouch, flint or awl.

There's a lot of variety in karda and chakmak design historically, far beyond the typical modern style offered at most houses.
The solid steel option below is of particular interest. What do you guys think?
Any suggestions for what you'd like to see?

some ornate recurved examples

Kardas.jpg


Kukri-and-accompanying-karda-knife-and-chakmak-firesteel-from-the-Nepal-armory-One.png
 
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Dec 5, 2021
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6
I really like the simple K&C which accompany the HSI pictured above. As far as something which differs more from the typical, modern designs - how about something like a smaller, slimmer Cursive EDC?
 

Kailash Blades

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Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
563
I think a cursive EDC style karda could be a great option. In past customs we've favoured that style of companion blade due to how flat it is. The lower profile compared to say a spur or large karda helps to keep the whole sheath package close to the body and less likely to snag on things in the bush.
 

HJA

Joined
Apr 29, 2021
Messages
14
Would a ferro rod slot make more sense than tinder pouch? Or a steel cylindrical ferro-rod holder that can also be used to straighten the blade? (replacing the chakmak)
 

Kailash Blades

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Nov 21, 2015
Messages
563
We're definitely thinking about having firesteels available, particularly with matched handles etc. The tinder pouch is something that would be more targeted on traditional and historical builds. These are extemely common, moreso than kardas even but have very poor representation in modern replicas.
 
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Dec 29, 2021
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From my very brief time handling the k&c in pictures above (by no means is this an expert opinion)...
I think you could remove half the max tail width (~2cm -> ~1cm) to keep it thinner if less bulk is your goal. You would probably lose the pretty eye on the butt of the handle that matches the khukuri, but you could still keep the fish ail in profile.
I was surprised at how well the butt rested on my curled ring or pinky (depending on whether I was gripping with two or three fingers.
The upward point of the fish tail keeps me from a full grip (but... I'm not sure you would really need to grip a k/c hard). You might consider trying to keep the fish tail point from bending up on handles that end inside the hand?
The downward point and general swell at the end are very useful at registering the handle in the fingers.
I have other two or three finger knives, and the better feeling ones (a small frame-lock flipper folder and a nagao hignokami friction folder) have cutouts in the profile that also help register a finger.

I briefly held a cursive before it was handed off to the intended gift recipient... And I think the shape of the handle profile would also work well at seating it in the palm for a smaller knife like a karda too, if you explore a cursive style karda.

Two other things that came to mind when thinking about thinning down the bulk, and possibly some more unusual (and maybe not very viable) ideas...
- I think the chakmak could be replaced by a hardened marlin spike (not as sharp as an awl, for working knots). You should still be able to use that for truing the edge, and you may still be able to retain sparking if the whole spike isn't rounded, maybe. The spine of the traditional sheath (or frog) and western leather sheaths mostly seem to have a place a loop to hold a marlin spike or ferro rod out of the way. But a spike should be pretty easy to slip in other places too.

- The first thing I thought of when thinking of compact knives/accessories are the old higonokami type of simple friction folder with folder sheet metal for the handle. I have a few, and I love how simple and compact they are. The general style is not strictly higonokami... I believe there is a well known french knife of the type (douk douk?). Tod Cutler has some reproductions of ~medieval or slightly newer simple friction folders of that general type. I think a very compact karda (and chakmak) could possibly be made with a folded brass/steel/copper sheet. Maybe a bend in the handle would work (possibly with a small forming jig) to follow the blade shape and echo the handle bends in khukuris. A bit of a fish tail and possibly an inner cut out to give a good finger register. The sheet metal should be good for custom engravings and variations too.

I meant to sketch out what I was thinking, but I didn't quite get around to it.... Hopefully my words describe the ideas well enough, but I can sketch them up a bit if you want.
I'd be particularly interested if Kailash decided to try out a higonokami style karda or small knife. :)
 

Kailash Blades

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
563
From my very brief time handling the k&c in pictures above (by no means is this an expert opinion)...
I think you could remove half the max tail width (~2cm -> ~1cm) to keep it thinner if less bulk is your goal. You would probably lose the pretty eye on the butt of the handle that matches the khukuri, but you could still keep the fish ail in profile.
I was surprised at how well the butt rested on my curled ring or pinky (depending on whether I was gripping with two or three fingers.
The upward point of the fish tail keeps me from a full grip (but... I'm not sure you would really need to grip a k/c hard). You might consider trying to keep the fish tail point from bending up on handles that end inside the hand?
The downward point and general swell at the end are very useful at registering the handle in the fingers.
I have other two or three finger knives, and the better feeling ones (a small frame-lock flipper folder and a nagao hignokami friction folder) have cutouts in the profile that also help register a finger.

I briefly held a cursive before it was handed off to the intended gift recipient... And I think the shape of the handle profile would also work well at seating it in the palm for a smaller knife like a karda too, if you explore a cursive style karda.

Two other things that came to mind when thinking about thinning down the bulk, and possibly some more unusual (and maybe not very viable) ideas...
- I think the chakmak could be replaced by a hardened marlin spike (not as sharp as an awl, for working knots). You should still be able to use that for truing the edge, and you may still be able to retain sparking if the whole spike isn't rounded, maybe. The spine of the traditional sheath (or frog) and western leather sheaths mostly seem to have a place a loop to hold a marlin spike or ferro rod out of the way. But a spike should be pretty easy to slip in other places too.

- The first thing I thought of when thinking of compact knives/accessories are the old higonokami type of simple friction folder with folder sheet metal for the handle. I have a few, and I love how simple and compact they are. The general style is not strictly higonokami... I believe there is a well known french knife of the type (douk douk?). Tod Cutler has some reproductions of ~medieval or slightly newer simple friction folders of that general type. I think a very compact karda (and chakmak) could possibly be made with a folded brass/steel/copper sheet. Maybe a bend in the handle would work (possibly with a small forming jig) to follow the blade shape and echo the handle bends in khukuris. A bit of a fish tail and possibly an inner cut out to give a good finger register. The sheet metal should be good for custom engravings and variations too.

I meant to sketch out what I was thinking, but I didn't quite get around to it.... Hopefully my words describe the ideas well enough, but I can sketch them up a bit if you want.
I'd be particularly interested if Kailash decided to try out a higonokami style karda or small knife. :)

Awesome feedback- thanks a bunch!
I hear you on the 2/3 finger grip capability that comes with the hook at the bottom. A while back I had a design for a more modern looking karda that did exactly what you're suggesting, with a hook only on one side:
82377490_3966961843330078_7577584407758766080_n.jpg

A bit more finger indexing would definitely help out ergonomics- potentially we could incorporate that into a modernised variant. A marlinspike would be a great shape for steeling actually and has so much other functionality- a very cool idea.
I absolutely hear you on the small friction folder. This was a concept we explored when I was last in Nepal and we actually made a prototype (the first folding knife in Nepal). We didn't end up exploring the blade style further as we were very limited by two machine requirements. No belt sanders are used in nepal- this makes it very difficult to properly get things in plane and reduce thicknesses efficiently. Secondly the drill presses over there have a lot of play in them and are very prone to wandering/ rattling and enlarging holes. On this current trip I'd love to see if we can make it more of a priority. Siru actually made an updated version a month or so ago using brass liners and micarta scales. If the quality of fit is there when I inspect it we may go into production soon- if not we'll look into the tooling and push ahead from there.
Take care,
Andrew and the team at Kailash

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