Can bevels be milled?

T

ToolHead

Joined
Nov 21, 2001
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82
I know there are free hand bevel masters here, but mine suck and I am in a position to buy another piece of equipment. I was thinking about a vertical mill. Can I do bevels on a vertical mill?

Tim
 
Yes, you can do it by first creating a jig with the proper angle or setting the mill head for that angle. A surface grinder works a little better but I still say that you get a better product by grinding.
 
Originally posted by peter nap
Yes, you can do it by first creating a jig with the proper angle or setting the mill head for that angle. A surface grinder works a little better but I still say that you get a better product by grinding.
Click to expand...

I agree, plus more satisfaction.
 
Just practice. Mine sucked for quite a while (that's why I practiced on files) but, they will get better. Hey, every once in a while my grinds still suck. Where do you think Tess gets her kitchen knives from.

J.
http://www.mountainhollow.net
 
I have nothing against using different types of tooling to your advantage, but I agree that it would probably be faster to use your grinder for making the bevels. I didn't realize how long it takes to mill something until I got my mini milling machine.

-chris
 
milling or surface grinding would work okay for blades with a straight cutting edge such as a warncliff but other shapes with curves will be much harder since you wil have to vary the cutting head height to keep the edge thickness uniform. You are much better off continuing to grind by hand.
 
YOUR HANDS ARE THE MOST VERSITILE JIG! i continiue to burn up steel and my fingers :) thats were all the fun is!:p see once you set up all the jigs on a mill the next step is to farm out the work and just do the handles. this is ok if thats for you but you need to figure out a game plan for were you are going with this knife making? :)
 
Alright!! You Win! I'll learn freehand. :) BUT.....I'll only do it on one condition though. Tell me how you keep the bevels even on both sides and keep them even when you grind the bevels along the curve of the blade towards the tip. I've read just about every book on knifemaking out there and still can't get it right.

Tim
 
I scribe a set of parallel lines around my blades and use them as referance marks. You might try looking up a knifemaker in your area and ask him if he can show you the basics of grinding that is if you havent already done that.
 
i am sure you have heard the one about, how do you get to carnegie hall? hang in there and laugh a little and grind some more!:)
 
It may sound like a simple argument to just keep saying, "Practice!" but in fact it's true. The more you grind the more natural it'll seem and eventually your hands will start doing stuff your brain can't understand; go with it, it's the Force. :) I can say this because it wasn't all that long ago everyone saying Practice just made me short tempered, but I found they're right. Now I'm working to overcome my current plateau...

Dave
 
I totally agree, tooling set-up time for knife bevels will ruin you even if you can run a machine shop in the dark. It's not a macho thing to me...you just have a much less restricted avenue doing it free-hand...and as was said, milling proposes all sorts of problems to get a good edge-geometry.

If you've read all the books, I'll assume you're grinding with the cutting edge up.

I start my grind a little bit ahead of the plunge cut (GENTLY!!!) and then sway my hips to take the blade back to the plunge cut. Then I shift my weight to help carry the blade across the belt in a linear fashion...all the while gently pulling the handle end back (slightly) to keep a uniform thickness from start to tip.

I use the thumb on the handle end of business to do the main adjustment in pressure from cutting edge back to spine. Meaning I use that thumb to either push the top of the ricasso into the belt to take a lot off of the cutting edge, or I ease it back toward the spine of the ricasso to bring pressure to the spine of the blade.

I only use my hand on the blade end of business for support. Very little actuall pushing is done with that hand.

Once you get to the tip, pull the blade straight back away from the belt. If you continue that gentle sweeping pulling back of the handle all the way past the tip...you'll grind the tip right off.

Well, there's some tips. I'm really too tired at the moment, so I better go before I screw you up more than I already have ;)

Please let us know how it goes and we'll try to help!!!!! :D
Nick
 
I do very much what Nick described, but I don't always do it well. I am pretty much a klutz, and learning to grind is an ongoing (and very difficult) challenge for me.

What I do have going for me is the willingness to go slowly and correct (small) mistakes as they occur, or the sand to say, "This one is history" and put it in the scrap bucket.

If I look at the ratio of time spent on the actual grinding of one of my knives to fixing mistakes, I spend more time on the latter with almost every blade. This means taking the time to correct (usually by hand, with files and sandpaper) any asymmetry, rough transitions, deep scratches, and so on.

Persistence is more important than talent. Having a very clear vision (not to mention a well-drawn pattern) of exactly what you want to make will also save you untold grief. Spend as much time on the planning of a design as you do on the making of the knife.

I ground a blade too thin last week, and almost went through the stock so it looked like wrinkled tin foil. The edge and spine were solid, however, and I decided to heat treat it anyway, and use it for a shop knife. Another opportunity for practice (making the handle), without any concern for deadlines or saleability. The point here is that even some mistakes can be salvaged as useful tools, but you might not want to put your name on them.
 
Practice!
Milling is ok... I used to rough blades with the mill.
After a while its just easier to grind them!
 
do very much what Nick described, but I don't always do it well. I am pretty much a klutz, and learning to grind is an ongoing (and very difficult) challenge for me.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: Tell that one to someone who has NOT seen your work Don!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Tim, Im wondering if you have a varible speed grinder? It will make the grinding much easier because things dont happen so fast. If you already have a VS then I say Practice Practice Practice. Sorry
 
do the hardest side for you first then the other side will be a little easier to copy. just keep at it it will get better.
some guys it takes 50 + knives to get it. for me it was between
the first one and the 2nd one. :D :D :footinmou
Ha ha,, wellll it did take a lot to get comfortable with it. :(
 
Excellent thread guys, thanks to all!

I'm learning to flat grind.

Good news is that I am finding that after the angle is set you can 'feel' when you are starting out right on a pass. However, it takes concentration and not being tired. My problem now is removing all the deep spots where I am 'feeling' around!

Using the edge mark really helps, but what about the spine? I'd like a nice clean grind line that matches on both sides.

Can I cover rear part of the blade with electrical tape in the proper shape? It might help as a resist kinda thing.

Steve
 
Toolhead, I was in your same position until a few years back. Drove me nuts!!! I could build a great folder and had marginal grinds. Darrel Ralph was nice enough and patient enough to help me out. ;)While I was there and explained my problems and he fixed my grinding problems overnite. He had me bring a 2"X2" piece of steel, a few feet long. While at his house I cut them in two. We made what is called mirror blocks. I grind on a Wilton Square Wheel grinder. I also bought an oversized work table from Mick Koval at a knife show. I epoxied a 4"X 1 Foot piece of stainless steel on the work table to make it bigger. I almost strictly make folders with blades ranging up to 4".

OK, a mirror block can be made 2 ways. Say you use like I do a 3/16th pivot. You drill a hole small than 3/16ths in the center of the block towards the top. Then drill the front side 3/16ths about a 1/2 inch down (into the block to acept your pivot pin) so your pivot pin will go in. The back side you will need to drill a bigger hole to acept the screw that goes into the back of the pivot pin to hold the blade in place while you grind. Now you will need to drill evenly spaced holes in rows, I used 1/16th on each of the outer sides so you can put 1/16th dowel pins in there. Put your blade upside down with evenly scribed lines on the top of the grinding surface and screw it down to the block. Now with your dowl pins place them in the same hole on each outer end of the block. Grind your blade on one side, flip it and grind on the other side. With practice you will learn which angles work best. No more burnt fingers and ****** grinds. Spoken from experience! ;) The other way is to put the small 1/16th pins in an even row down the middle and a pivot pin hole on each top corner. Just another way to do the same thing.I use this block for longer blades.

If my message didnt come thru and make sense let me know and I will try to post pictures of the blocks tomorrow. Also I live in Itasca which is 5 miles west of O'hare. If you want you can email me and come over and I can show you in person. I will also be at the Chicago knife show, September 13/14/15 if your around stop by and say Hi.
 
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