Can this destroy America?

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I aopolgise in posting such a volitile poltical statement in the HI Forum, but I like the people here and very much value your viewpoints. If the moderators feel that this should be moved to a more political Forum, I will, of course, have no objections.

One of the points that stands out to me is "Establish a Cult of Victimology where the minorities blame their failures on the majority."

This scares the crap out of me! Particularly The "Cult of Victimology?!?!" The minorities feel that they are being suppressed by the Majority? That the Majority OWES them something? That they justify their failure, not because of their own faults, but because they are being "oppressed?"

This self-defeating reasoning does and will lead to more violent conflicts.

----- Bill

Article begins here.

A Frightening Analysis

We all know Dick Lamm as the former Governor of Colorado. In that context his thoughts are particularly poignant. Last week there was an immigration-overpopulation conference in Washington, DC, filled to capacity by many of American's finest minds and leaders. A brilliant college professor named Victor Hansen Davis talked about his latest book, "Mexifornia," explaining how immigration - both legal and illegal - was destroying the entire state of California. He said it would march across the country until it destroyed all vestiges of The American Dream.

Moments later, former Colorado Governor Richard D. Lamm stood up and gave a stunning speech on how to destroy America. The audience sat spellbound as he described eight methods for the destruction of the United States. He said, "If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.'"

"Here is how they do it," Lamm said:

First to destroy America, "Turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country. History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual.

"The historical scholar Seymour Lipset put it this way: 'The histories of bilingual and bi-cultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy.' Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."

Lamm went on:

Second, to destroy America, "Invent 'multiculturalism' and encourage immigrants to maintain their culture. I would make it an article of belief that all cultures are equal. That there are no cultural differences. I would make it an article of faith that the Black and Hispanic dropout rates are due to prejudice and discrimination by the majority. Every other explanation is out of bounds.

Third, "We could make the United States an 'Hispanic Quebec' without much effort. The key is to celebrate diversity rather than unity. As Benjamin Schwarz said in the Atlantic Monthly recently: 'The apparent success of our own multiethnic and multicultural experiment might have been achieved not by tolerance but by hegemony. Without the dominance that once dictated ethnocentrically and what it meant to be an American, we are left with only tolerance and pluralism to hold us together.'"

Lamm said, "I would encourage all immigrants to keep their own language and culture. I would replace the melting pot metaphor with the salad bowl metaphor. It is important to ensure that we have various cultural subgroups living in America reinforcing their differences rather than as Americans, emphasizing their similarities."

"Fourth, I would make our fastest growing demographic group the least educated. I would add a second underclass, unassimilated, undereducated, and antagonistic to our population. I would have this second underclass have a 50% dropout rate from high school."

"My fifth point for destroying America would be to get big foundations and business to give these efforts lots of money. I would invest in ethnic identity, and I would establish the cult of 'Victimology.' I would get all minorities to think their lack of success was the fault of the majority. I would start a grievance industry blaming all minority failure on the majority population."

"My sixth plan for America's downfall would include dual citizenship and promote divided loyalties. I would celebrate diversity over unity. I would stress differences rather than similarities. Diverse people worldwide are mostly engaged in hating each other - that is, when they are not killing each other. A diverse, peaceful, or stable society is against most historical precedent. People undervalue the unity it takes to keep a nation together. Look at the ancient Greeks. The Greeks believed that they belonged to the same race; they possessed a common language and literature; and they worshipped the same gods. All Greece took part in the Olympic games. A common enemy Persia threatened their liberty. Yet all these bonds were not strong enough to over come two factors: local patriotism and geographical conditions that nurtured political divisions. Greece fell.
"E.
Pluribus Unum" -- From many, one. In that historical reality, if we put the emphasis on the 'pluribus' instead of the 'Unum,' we can balkanize America as surely as Kosovo."

"Next to last, I would place all subjects off limits ~ make it taboo to talk about anything against the cult of 'diversity.' I would find a word similar to 'heretic' in the 16th century - that stopped discussion and paralyzed thinking. Words like 'racist' or 'xenophobe' halt discussion and debate."

"Having made America a bilingual/bicultural country, having established multi-culturism, having the large foundations fund the doctrine of 'Victimology,' I would next make it impossible to enforce our immigration laws. I would develop a mantra: That because immigration has been good for America, it must always be good. I would make every individual immigrant symmetric and ignore the cumulative impact of millions of them."

In the last minute of his speech, Governor Lamm wiped his brow. Profound silence followed. Finally he said, "Lastly, I would censor Victor Hanson Davis's book Mexifornia. His book is dangerous. It exposes the plan to destroy America. If you feel America deserves to be destroyed, don't read that book."

There was no applause. A chilling fear quietly rose like an ominous cloud above every attendee at the conference. Every American in that room knew that everything Lamm enumerated was proceeding methodically, quietly, darkly, yet pervasively across the United States today. Every discussion is being suppressed. Over 100 languages are ripping the foundation of our educational system and national cohesiveness. Barbaric cultures that practice female genital mutilation are growing as we celebrate 'diversity.'

American jobs are vanishing into the Third World as corporations create a Third World in America - take note of California and other states - to date, ten million illegal aliens and growing fast. It is reminiscent of George Orwell's book "1984." In that story, three slogans are engraved in the Ministry of Truth building: "War is peace," "Freedom is slavery,"
and
"Ignorance is strength."

Governor Lamm walked back to his seat. It dawned on everyone at the conference that our nation and the future of this great democracy is deeply in trouble and worsening fast. If we don't get this immigration monster stopped within three years, it will rage like a California wildfire and destroy everything in its path, especially The American Dream.
______________________________________________________
http://www.parapundit.com/archives/001764.html
http://www.townhall.com/bookclub/hanson.html
http://www.numbersusa.com/index has facts - just the facts - on this problem - sign up and let your voice be heard in Congress
 
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How about we just invade Mexico ?
We could just take it over and put our own people in all of the govt positions and just annex the whole thing.
Require them all to switch over to English, put REAL cops in every police station, etc...
Would that work ?

(Im not agreeing with anything, im just throwing out a suggestion for discussion)
 
I'm Canadian, living in the country's only officially bilingual province.

I worked for a while, when living in another province, in an area which deals with immigration issues.

I simply don't see that immigration, multiculturalism, and linguistic diversity providing more costs than benefits. I certainly don't see that the exporting of jobs to the 3rd world has much to do with these issues - they're much more related to the globalizing economy. Simply put, companies are under pressure to keep production costs as low as possible, in order to keep prices at our local WalMart as low as possible. Hence the export of jobs.

Our countries, yours and mine, were built by immigrants - and we're still frankly relying on immigrants to keep the trains running on time. The decline in the birth rate in each of our countries means that we're frankly relying on skilled immigrants to fill looming gaps especially in the skilled trades, as the baby boomers age. All the world's industrialized countries are competing for these same highly skilled immigrants.

This means that the makeup of our nations will change. Many more shades to the linguistic and cultural palette. Certainly, something will be lost - there are good things in the cultures we've built, and there's comfort in seeing folks who look like and have the same background as yourself. And the financial costs of addressing language issues are certainly real.

But much will also be gained. With global markets and sourcing, it's very helpful to have people with different cultural perspectives to aid in working with foreign suppliers, and in marketing products. And of course, other cultures have some fabulous things for us to adopt and enjoy ... like Khukuries, for instance.

Tom.
 
I've seen this one before. Some of the statements in the essay are quite likely to stir up some debate and/or disagreement. It will be interesting to see how the forumites on this multi-cultural HI forum handle it.
 
There is a vast difference between immigration and illegal immigration, with millions pouring across the border every year. Canada does not live next to South America.

It is very difficult to fight huge tidal trends of migration and capitalism, however.

Have our culture and our institutions taken a beating? Of course they have. Is it the death knell? Probably not.



munk
 
Immigration is no threat, and my parents were immigrants. America was guilt on waves of immigration from China, Japan, Ireland, etc.

Illegal immigration is a problem because it represents a complete lack of security at our borders. Our gov't does not seem concerned with security here at home.

I am much more concerned about the off-shore mentality of our corporations and government. Pretty soon our illegal immigrants won't have any work to do, since everything will be manufactured in India, China and other parts of Asia.

We won't have a problem with immigration when there are no jobs here. That is the way that our government is dealing with the problem of immigration. If the jobs are not here, immigrants won't come here.

Put the jobs in China and India, and let those countries deal with the problem!
 
Great article. Unfortunately, he is almost a lone voice in this country. Until we as Americans stand up and are heard, we may well let this country be taken to the brink of disaster.
 
the silence after his speach was probably shock,

What about the roman empire, do you think everyone spoke latin?
I think not. Now if you wanted to trade , it would help to know the language of the people you deal with, so people did learn to speak latin. In case you forgot most of our language as well most of western europe is based in latin. Same thing will happen here. What does concerned me about illegals is, it means we have no control on our borders, that leads to security issues and problems with contraband.

I'm kind of surprised that terrorist haven't taken advantage of that weakness yet, 10 teams with 60mm mortars with vans could reak havoc, like the sniper did in maryland. Even sniper teams could cause quite a bit of disturbance and would be even easier to implement. The fact that this hasn't happened makes me think that "terrorist" are not anywhere near the threat that we are lead to believe.

I think that if we allowed people in to work, We could tighten down on the border for the other reasons. If they are coming anyway, why not, at least we would have some control and know who, when, where and why?

I think that some people with limited imaginations have trouble dealing with the future in general, as things will always change, some changes will be good and some changes will be bad, but that doesn't mean that we can stop it by trying to hide in the past or especially an incorrect view of the past. We will all go forward in time , whether we like it or not, far better with the eyes open.

What really kills me is that people think that in the united states that multicultualism is bad, Don't they read any history? Their have been waves of migration , from scotland, ireland, italy, china, germany, japan....etc (duh), gee I guess all those people left all cutural values at home?

" we didn't start the fire, it was always burning since the world was turning"
Billy Joel

Ok killed enough time, I got to work now.....
 
hawkwind said:
Define American.



......European :)
Originally, most. But in my mind an American is someone who loves and supports this country, above all others. My heritage is Irish and I am proud of it. But I am an American. Amercans have a commn bond that comes in part from speaking the same language, sharing the same customs, embracing the same culture. You cannot deny that there is a distinct American culture. Not all of it is good, but it exists. That culture has done more good in the world than any other since the beginning of the world, still continues to do so. It has been the assimilation of immigrants into that culture that has strengthened it. If you destroy that, then this country will cease to exist. IMHO.
Terry
 
I agree with parts of that, disagree with other parts.

Seems like where I live, which is by no means the big city, there are tons of people from Latin America and the Middle East moving here.

I am not so worried about the language thing because eventually, worldwide everybody will probably speak English or Spanish in the future.

I am worried about when the conservative Catholics, and the Fundamentalist Christians AND Muslims realize how much they have in common and band together politically. All the fun will be over then :rolleyes:

I DO think that the current level of immigration, both legal and illegal is lowering our standard of living. The only jobs that can't be outsourced, and therefore that would be capable of being unionized and providing a decent wage and benefits are service jobs. Most of these companies are making record profits so they coud afford to pay a living wage, but the large numbers of immigrants are keeping wages in these sectors low. I see that as a problem.

Correct me if I am wrong but does Canada not give preference to more highly educated people as far as immigration???
 
I certainly value American Values, but we can all have a discussion about what that means.

I personally wonder about the language issue, and don't know how it should go. For example, the Swiss have 2 languages - French and German. Some of their cantons are mainly French speaking, and some are German speaking. I think that you have much the same in Belgium, and they are doing fine, as are the Swiss.

Changes occur as cultures first mingle, and some of the changes are a problem. Just look at the difficulties that they are having in the Netherlands right now. The problem is not with language, it is in dealing with the intermingling of radically different cultures - e.g. the immigrants from some parts of the world tend to be isolated when they first move to France or Holland. This gives you enclaves - and enculturation can be a problem. The isolation sure does not help.

Immigration by itself is not a problem. It can be good for us. We get lots of skilled people in computer science, biology, and the sciences and engineering.
The problem is then for the Americans who now have trouble getting jobs in those areas.

I sure don't know what the answer is, but the answer is not in isolation, or the reverse - encouraging a source of cheap labor.
 
Kill 'em all and let God sort them out.








(but of course, I lean slightly to the right. So what do I know.) :rolleyes:
 
I also agree with parts and disagree with others.

I believe that the "victimization" point is accurate. Things are always the fault of somebody else. Seems that personal responsibility is becoming a thing of the past.

On the other hand, I disagree with the sentiment that banning immigrants will help. The ones I know and have known are all very productive, hard-working people. They help America. Their culture contributes to the whole.

I also disagree that we should all blindly follow some standardized vision of America. America means something different to all of us, and to make a standard idea of patriotism will help nothing, IMO. This is not to say that we shouldn't seek unity. I just think that an open, accepting, innovative patriotism is a good idea.

Historical analysis can be a messy business. I personally think that political, cultural, and diplomatic stagnation has brought down great powers even more effectively than the things he mentioned. I think that an innovative culture is the key, but this is my own opinion. Historical analysis is incredibly subjective. Support can be found for virtually any thesis. It all depends heavily on point of view.

Interesting thoughts.


Nam
 
brantoken said:
What about the roman empire, do you think everyone spoke latin?

Actually most of the Roman citizens did speak Latin as a first language except for the nobility who spoke Greek first and Latin second. It was quite an honor and a distinction to be a Roman citizen.

But I get your point.

The thing that concerns me most is about the diversity above unity. The "salad bowl" concept above "melting pot." I am of Scotch descent, but I consider myself an American, not a Scotch-American.

The "Cult(s) of Victimology." People who decide that through race or nationality that they are oppressed by the "majority", worse yet, their ancestors have been oppressed, and that they now deserve special treatment.

Our country was founded by rebels. We welcomed diverse peoples "your tired, your poor...."

There is no question but that there are minorities who have been oppressed because of race, sex, religion, national origin, color, etc, etc. Certainly much of this STILL exists.

BUT most of the people who founded our contry as well as those who left their native shores did so because they were oppressed more so where they came from by their own people!

My concern is about "minorities" who are SELF-OPPRESSING! People who limit themselves so terribly and then BLAME the majority for their state. When you continually place your power outside yourself, you will always lose.

Yeah, Yeah, Yeah, here comes the rags to riches story. I was born with disadvantages. Poor family coming out of the Great Depression. Four room farm house with cracks in the floor. You could see the ground through them, winter through summer.

Four acres of farm land. Grew our own vegetables, milked our cow.

We had an outhouse (watch out for wasps). One coal burining stove in the kitchen. Cold as hell in the winter. We knew that. We did not know it was too hot in the summer because we had never heard of air conditioning.

It wasn't easy. But we never blamed anyone for our lives. Other people we knew had better. Often much better.

My father was ex-military. Grew up in a wealthy family. Educated at Bordentown Military Institute. Began West Point. Dropped out to support his mother and brother when the Depression hit and my Grandfather left them.

Tough, but still he never blamed anyone. "Buckle down and make it work" was his motto. "You CAN do it. May take some effort, but don't be afraid of work."

My sister and I did just that. If we had blamed other people for our lot in life, we would never have made it. She and I are both successful business people.

My first business was when I was ten years old. 24 chickens. Yeah, Dad bought them. Set up a place in the barn for them, but I was expected to care for them. Feed and water. Collect and sell the eggs. Buy more chicken feed from my egg money.

Protect my investment. Once a chicken hawk began picking off my flock. I cut school, got my father's 20 gauge L. C. Smith shotgun and finally blew that sucker away. He was slow taking off, carrying the weight of one of my chickens. Felt right!

Sell the eggs in my grandmother's neighborhood. It was then that I began to understand the value of work. I made an average of $5 per week. This was when my friends were getting 35 cents a week allowance. It was BIG money in the early 1950s for a kid.

I experienced a thing that was strange to me at the time. My friends told me that I was rich and they were poor, so I should buy them things.

I offered them jobs. The barn was big enough to expand my flock, but it was all I could do, riddled with bronchitus, to carry water and feed for my 24 hens.

To my amazement they refused work, but I could feel their jealousy, though I did not understand why they did not want to work and have the same benefits I enjoyed.

I tried to teach them how to do what I was doing. No dice.

What I am trying to say is that if you want better, go to work. AND don't put your power to better your life so far outside yourself that you can never succeed.

I firmly belive that America is the greatest country in the world. I will beat that drum all day long in front of anyone I know. The greatest opportunities anywhere for personal success regardless of race, sex, religion, national origin, color, or you name it.

The only one who can stop you is you. Look around the world and if you see a country where you can do better, go there.
 
Outstanding post, Bill. Thanks.


Ad Astra

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You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Bill Marsh again.
 
cliff355 said:
Why is it that my Grandpa had to prove he could speak English before they would let him off Ellis Island and now Govt. offices are required to employ interpreters for immigrants who refuse to learn English? When did all that change?

I dont know but I know that any judge can let you swear and make you U.S. citizen in 10 minutes if extreme circumstances emerge.

Well if they refuse, suppose they dont get in. Its that simple. We do have the same problem with gypsies.

The other thing is that U.S. is very young country. Its was kind of virgin land, where all the geeks, refuses and oultaws went for some time. Think about who were the mayflower passengers - a sect of the time.
The virgin country does not mean necessary the "Country". IT has happened again and again even in the U.S. - remember the people wandering to florida.

Your granpa got the oportunity to get in otherwise you didnt have been american. So anyone else should be able to get the oportunity. If you think you can retaliate with "none shall pass", youre wrong.
I m rather hard working relativelly good educated, have no debts, pay my taxes, no crime ever and I m ****ing having problems to get my visa even for a vacation trip and when I want to go, they take my fingerprints - doyou it get somehow??? I wanted to go to MOJAM last year - "Missoury Ozark Jamboree" -its bowmaking event. I didnt went for reasons like this.

So think little what really your current politic does. You do not allow men like me, from "trusted" country, but you ll letting in the people which do not want to speak english from fear that they would accuse you from proseccuition (either ethnic or whatsoever).
 
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