Capsicum spray

F

Falcenberg

Joined
Mar 29, 1999
Messages
330
Hello to all.

As some of you could know, I live in Italy, and when I was single I surfed these forums and posted about Italian knife-related issues almost frequently.

After I got marryed and our daughter was born, I hardly can find time to sharpen my knives when they need it. Just to warn you about marriage...;)

I would be very grateful to have some advices about pepper/Capsicum self-defense sprays: I am used to give to my wife a can of these "just in case", even I am not so confident about them.

It means, I tested it on me, and I can witness its effects, but I am not so sure it can save you in case of real danger. Anyway, I have to replace the can (it expiration date is running out) and I am thinking to give two more cans to my nieces (they are going to have their first travel abroad by themselves).

Here in Italy electric shocking devices are not legal, and just pepper spray are legal, if it uses Capsicum oil only up to 10% of concentration.

Usually I bought TW 1000, but now I see there are more "powerful" sprays (Capsicum foam, ranging more than 4 meters, etc.). Prices are very different: I found some stuff at about 5 USD (4 euro) up to 45 USD (32 Euro) for TW 1000 40cc.

Can you help me? Can you suggest a good and reliable product, Capsicum oil only, with a large range (up to 4 meters or more), with a good ballistic foam jet and an honest price?

Thank you very much.

Falcenberg
 
Just a word of caution if you are giving them to your niece to travel abroad with. They are illegal in some countries. In the UK you are almost certain to get a prison sentence if found with one.
 
I would be careful traveling with them. as bladefixation2 said, thier legal standing varies in different countries. the UK bans them compleately, unless you are an on-duty LEO, and the legal standing varies in the US (some states it's legal, some it requires a CCW permit (which may not be avialable to non-citizens) and some it is illegal)
don't know about other countries, except that I've seen it on open sale in france, although I don't know what would happen to you if you where found carrying it.
 
Thanks folks, but they will be cruising on the MSC Fantasia, the ship on which Big Bosses will be hosted during next G8 in Sardinia. They will have a travel organized by their high school. There will be their teachers and classmates, and during the cruise they will have a trip at Palma de Maiorca, at Marseille, at Barcelona and at Palermo. They could have a trip at Tunis too, but they will avoid it. I adviced them to stay in group, to avoid weird people and beverage, but just to be sure I am considering to give them such devices. "A bad trial is very better than a good funeral" ;)

Falcenberg
 
It seems logical that a 10% spray is more powerful than a 5% one that's not always the case. The most important thing to look for is the Scoville Heat Units (SHU) as that's what measures how 'hot' it is. It's possible for a 10% OC spray to have a lower SHU rating than a 5%.

This was taken from an advertisement for a spray:
The higher the SHU of the active ingredient, the greater the incapacitating effect. Don’t be mislead by a 10% OC formula claims because they may be less powerful than a 5% formula. There is no regulatory body to establish the minimum acceptable SHU standard, so manufacturing claims run the range.

Confused? This is how it relates: A 5% OC product with an OC rated at 2 million SHU has a capsaicin content is 0.675%. A 10% OC spray rated at 500,000 SHU has a capsaicin content is 0.3%, which is 50% less than the first product. A greater percentage does not necessarily mean it is a stronger incapacitating formula. Always be sure of the SHU rating of the formulation.
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The foam sprays seem like a good idea but the law enforcement in my state found out otherwise after trying it and they no longer use it. If someone sees that they're going to get sprayed and has time to react they can cover their eyes with their hands and the foam will stick to the hands....which they can then fling back upon the sprayer. With a liquid some will still penetrate the fingers and it's impossible to fling back.
 
Falcenberg said:
Thanks folks, but they will be cruising on the MSC Fantasia, the ship on which Big Bosses will be hosted during next G8 in Sardinia. They will have a travel organized by their high school. There will be their teachers and classmates, and during the cruise they will have a trip at Palma de Maiorca, at Marseille, at Barcelona and at Palermo. They could have a trip at Tunis too, but they will avoid it. I adviced them to stay in group, to avoid weird people and beverage, but just to be sure I am considering to give them such devices. "A bad trial is very better than a good funeral" ;)

Falcenberg
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If thier cruising on a ship then they may have problems getting them onboard. crew enterances certainly have airport style security, and I would imagine that the cruise terminals passenger acesses are the same as the ones at the international ferry terminals (round here anyway), and so have airport style security gates. dunno about the cruising equivilant of hold baggage however.
 
imho the best OC is fox, punch & deftec, i like the spray better than the fogger (wind) and the foam is good too, fox is supposedly the strongest but i havent personally used it, i have used the punch (it worked as advertised lol) & a bud has used the deftec (it worked also & was 2 yrs outta date to boot though the date usually is only an indicator that the propellent could be low not that the OC loses potencey with time).
 
phaserrifle said:
If thier cruising on a ship then they may have problems getting them onboard. crew enterances certainly have airport style security, and I would imagine that the cruise terminals passenger acesses are the same as the ones at the international ferry terminals (round here anyway), and so have airport style security gates. dunno about the cruising equivilant of hold baggage however.
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Ciao,
As a former cruise ship staff captain (comandante in 2a) I can tell you that Phaserrifle is very right. Chances are that anybody caught with it on board by the ship security(boarding normally is through metal detectors) or by the port security is going to face problems.
Fausto
 
Ciao Fausto,

thank you very much for your advice, but I have to tell you you should look after your security crew: during a cruise in 2002 I got in and out the ship several times, carrying my obvious Victorinox, at Madeira I bought a Faca, at Marrakesh I bought an Arabian dagger (just for show, not a reliable dagger), my wife carried her pepper can, and nobody said a word.

In 2007 I had another cruise, this time there were metal detectors every time we got in, but my backpack was scanned each time and nobody said a word about Victorinox, CRKT M16 and pepper can.

To be honest, I have to say I worked for some years in a supposed high security building, and I carried a large AFCK, Victorinox, etc. without problem.

This does not mean my nieces will not have problem, just to warn how our "security" controls don't work. We are easy targets.

Falcenberg
 
By the way, Fausto,

could I ask you something about your work, cruise ships, shipowners and satellite communcation services? My work is about satellite communication services, I am trying to "interface" shipowners, but I am not able to "understand their language".

Thank you very much.

Falcenberg
 
Mace Peppergel is much better than foam, but if you don't clean the nozzle with hot water after use it will clog.

The average street scumbag will not be catching and throwing foam back at you. Professional inmates do that trick, which was learned from being maced regularly and watching others.
 
Falcenberg said:
By the way, Fausto,

could I ask you something about your work, cruise ships, shipowners and satellite communcation services? My work is about satellite communication services, I am trying to "interface" shipowners, but I am not able to "understand their language".

Thank you very much.

Falcenberg
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Sure! if I can be of help no problem
I'm not surprised about what you say about ship security. I used to work up to 2006 for RSSC an american upscale company. Being a US company carrying US pax and working quite often out of US ports we were quite strict on our security procedures. I know that in other scenarios security can be slack but still the procedures are there and you may find a surprise every know and then.....
 
Falcenberg said:
Ciao Fausto,

thank you very much for your advice, but I have to tell you you should look after your security crew: during a cruise in 2002 I got in and out the ship several times, carrying my obvious Victorinox, at Madeira I bought a Faca, at Marrakesh I bought an Arabian dagger (just for show, not a reliable dagger), my wife carried her pepper can, and nobody said a word.

In 2007 I had another cruise, this time there were metal detectors every time we got in, but my backpack was scanned each time and nobody said a word about Victorinox, CRKT M16 and pepper can.
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I'm supprised. my dad gets suspicious looks for his leatherman. and he's walking through in uniform (engineer onboard the ship) and gets patted down every time his steel toecaps set off the detector arch.
 
Ciao Fausto,

can you send me an e-mail address or whatever you prefer to get in touch with you without posting in the Forum? Nothing of restricted, but I don't think it is nice to post in the Forum not-knife-related stuff or very-far-from-knife issues.

You can send me an e-mail at cfalcioli@usa.net. I posted a message for you in your public profile.

Grazie. Falcenberg
 
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