Cheetah - Premature Prepro

roshi

roshi

Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
1,501
Pre-Production Cheetah – Originally hyped as a $ 100 balisong for half the price, this butterfly should have stayed in the cocoon longer. At best it should have been released for shipping costs only to those who stuck with their preorders, sold as a kit, or passed around for constructive comments.

Disclaimer: This review is the personal sarcastic opinion of the author, who while encouraged to post it here by a Blade Forum moderator made the final decision himself against his own better judgment. This review is made in response to doting rationalization noted on these forums by those who have waited months and paid for the production version only to receive a prepro placebo. It should be noted that I much admire the design, entrepreneurial, and marketing genius of Mike Turber. However, the premature release of this knife hurt his credibility with me.

The BOSS Knives Cheetah (maybe a contracted version of cheat ya) limited edition pre-production butterfly knife (guess they haven’t figured out how to produce a real knife yet), “sterile” (haven’t figured out how to mark it or not proud enough to claim it), first Generation is the second in the series of down grades in materials of Mike T’s original brilliant balisong design.

These knives are now happily manufactured in the Peoples Republic of China (knock off capital of the world) and hand assembled by WOW (to avoid confiscation by U.S. Customs) right here in the USA.

The knife features a stainless steel blade with a base grind and blunt tip! You’ll definitely saw “Wow!” when you see that BOSS knives has thoughtfully left the choice of final grind to the user. Or better yet, use it for a trainer until you are an experienced “flipper” then profile and sharpen it. Blade finish is plain. Edge, if it had one it, would be plain.

No worry about tough to remove Locktited screws. The handles come wobbly loose. No attention to detail here. The diecast handles (depleted Aluminum, well they are supposed to be Al but seem heavier) come complete with mould flash, no two knives will be identical. The ultimate collectible. Screws are easily removed, or just wait for them to fall out, so you can customize this beauty. Be careful to reinstall them at the same angle the holes are drilled at.

Handle finish is gray paint over bead blast, guaranteed by the maker to peel and chip, assuring each knife will quickly have that ambiance that you thought you could only get with long use.

The knife does lock up tight proving the balisong design is infallible.

Picture? Sorry, I could never tell when it was in focus. Have a Tachyon or Dragonfly? Take a picture of it then use your graphics software to blur and soften the image. That’s the “prepro” Cheetah. No camera? Get the June Blade magazine (Dexter and Blade, shame on you). Copy the cover on an old copier (black and white since this knife is “gray on gray” or "Faux damascas and black"). Then copy the copy. Keep doing that until you’ve done it until the copier says low toner. Then do it again ten times. The resulting picture is a close as you can get to the real thing.

Pricing? The manufacturer has proudly noted that the original target price of half of a $ 100 has been halved again, in fact street prices range as low as $ 15. eBay reserve prices for the limited (let's hope so anyway)first release are expected to astronomical. I easily traded my Cheetah to a well known collector for a classic Jaguar (Duh, could that have been a knife not the car? No wonder he said I'd get it in the mail!).

Get this knife now before the higher quality Chinese knock-offs drive it off the market.
 
LOL! I enjoy some good, biting sarcasm in the morning.

At any rate, I ordered one of these yesterday just as something to play with. My expectations are low so it shouldn't be hard to please me. As long as Mike stays good on his promise of replacing broken Cheetahs, these should at least be worth more than other Balisong cheapies on the market.
 
Heh! Interesting review, Roshi! :) Although, I do have a couple issues with it. That is, I don't believe it was ever hyped to sell for $50, it should have been $20 but 1st gen was reduced to $15 because the lack of the sheath it was supposed to come with?

It was always supposed to come from China and assembled in the US - so even if the screws were tight and the blade sharp, would you still have mentioned that? You knew from the beginning that that's where it was coming from...

Locking up tight, doesn't actually prove the balisong design is infallible, it proves that Mike was able to make a design that locked up tight.

However, I think that the lack of any sharpness at all on the edge or point is quite a failing in a knife! And the looseness is pretty crappy. I don't have mine yet, but you know for 15 bucks what were you expecting? :) It seems to me that compared to its brethren (the jag and the pacific style) it could be a significant improvement, but I can't comment on that yet.
 
nybble,

In the original hype on the Cheetah, Mike portrayed that he was trying to deliver a knife for $ 50 or under that was equal to a knife manufactured in the US for $ 100. He also noted that he was pleased to have beat that by half again.

Blade Magazine touted the Cheetah and even used it as their cover knife for the June Issue. That picture and the pictures used on the BOSS and WOW websites portray a knife that is better than the Cheetah prepro.

I was expecting a $ 25 knife for the $ 25 ($ 20 plus $5 shipping)I spent. I was expecting a Dragonfly with a lower quality steel blade, rougher handles, looser fit, a poor finish, reasonable lock up, overall the quality of at least a Jaguar. Then to boot I was expecting that since Mike himself was supervising the assembly that any substandard parts would be rejected. That the final prepro's sent out would be either up to Mike's quality claims or not shipped at all.

My perception of Mike and WOW and BOSS is now that it's more important to make money now and sacrifice reputation than it is to retain the trust of customers. How does Mike expect me to support him against knock-off companies when the quality of the knock-offs is equal to or better than BOSS knives?

Am I suggesting that people should not buy a Cheetah? Not at all. If you like to spend hours tinkering with a knife to get it in shape, go for it. If you like to spend hours on your 204 reprofiling a blade, go for it. If you like to take pride in fixer uppers, go for it.

If you want to help Mike Turber survive in the world of knives, help make him better by insisting on a quality product.

I was looking forward to having several Cheetah's, a Karambit, and other BOSS products. Now, I'm going to wait until I know I can get a problem free $ 25 knife for $ 25.
 
Roshi, heh I must have done instant hype translating in my head as I read things. I wasn't expecting a dragonfly, just something that was noticeably better and longer lasting than the jaguars we see in the same price category. Sharpness I'd give up, you don't get shaving sharp from cheap knives - as long as it is sharpenable. And the play I thought could simply be adjusted with a screwdriver, but having just read that the bushing is wider than the blade, I think that's a horrendous problem. I hope that gets fixed in the next iteration of the cheetah.

I think from your statement that you find the quality of this to be less than the jaguars? That would truly be upsetting. What about it is worse?
 
Nybble,

I only have one Jaguar, maybe I got lucky (I traded my Cheetah for a NIB Jaguar Classic. I'll report on it when I get it). I only have one Cheetah, maybe I was unlucky.

The Jag blade is ground more cleanly and has a point. It can be sharpened. The Cheetah would require a lot of reprofiling on a 204 with diamond triangles.

The Jag handles are also cleanly cast, the Cheetah exhibited a lot of casting flash. Without knowing what Al alloy BOSS used and what "pot metal" Jaguar used, I can't say which is stronger.

The Jag latch fits better.

Yes, the Cheetah has pivot screws and bushings versus the Jag pins but as you have noted the bushing fit leaves a lot for improvement. The Jag pins-handles usually wear out leaving the options of replacement (difficult) or buy a new one (probably cheaper). I found the bushing-handle-screw slop in the Cheetah to be enough that I expect to see bushing-handle wear. It's not clear if you will be able to buy replacement parts from BOSS. Likely a new Cheetah will be cheaper.

I consider the prepro Cheetah to be a manufacturing prototype. Manufacture so many to test out the process. The "test" knife I got would indicate that the process is 60% to 70% debugged. My point is that these knives should have been discarded as scrap from the test run or sold as collectible prototypes, not user knives.

The Cheetah I got is what I'd expect direct from a Chinese maker. I thought enough of Mike to asume that he wouldn't release a knife before he was proud to do so. I've admired Mike in his quest to find good designs in addition to his own Tachyon design. I wondered at his perseverance trekking through China to seek out manufacturers. His marketing and sales skills are remarkable (he could likely succeed in any venture). I support his fight against the genuine knock-off companies that steal designs rather than support original designers like Mike is trying to do. I truly hope he succeeds with BOSS, I'd like a Karambit and Cheetahs in all blade styles and colors when they are ready for market. I think he stepped on his thwacker when he released the prepro Cheetah.

I think a lot of forumites cut Mike too much slack. Maybe I'm just an old curmudgeon. :footinmou
 
Roshi, why do you think I pulled the mold and switched factories to make the Gen 2? Stay tuned I love you too!

Gen 1 is a damn good knife for the money. You will find it for about $15 if you search. Josh has 'em at $22 Danny at $19.95 with Free shipping and others are getting them daily. I think I did ok but keep in mind I moved the molds for a reason, the first factory ****ED ME! So the Sterile knives, even though I have them, are not the original Gen 2 which I had planeed for. And even then they will not be a Benchmade or a Microtech. What they will be is a KICK ASS knife for $29.95. Stay tuned.

Gen 1, in my opinion is well worth the asking price. And again it beats the **** out of the M4 or the Jags. But that is my opinion.
 
Mike,

I hope your new manufacturer meets your expectations and wish you success with Gen 2.

However, I'm a bit confused. It seems like you're saying the Gen 1 Preproduction Cheetah is a great $ 15 knife?

Originally posted by Mike Turber
Gen 1 is a damn good knife for the money. You will find it for about $15 if you search.

Gen 1, in my opinion is well worth the asking price. And again it beats the **** out of the M4 or the Jags. But that is my opinion.
Click to expand...

Then why do you price it at $ 20 plus $ 5 shipping at WOW, Inc.? I paid $ 35 for it and a kydex sheath at your site. The sheath was a steal at $ 10 so that kind of made up for over paying for the knife.

I picked up a new Jag in trade for the Cheetah and I have to disagree with you. The Jag is more knife. I'll post a separate review later.
 
The Jags seem like a steal until they break after only a few days or weeks of flipping. You should expect one of the pivot pins to snap unexpectedly, leaving you with half of a Balisong.
 
I would suggest the Bear balisongs. Not sure what they are going for now, but mine was fairly cheap ($15 then, about 20-30 now). I've had one for years, replaced it with a Benchmade and gave it to a Balisong newbie, and its still flipping.

The Bear balisongs are pinned, but hold up pretty good. Their biggest problem is not pin breakage, but the aluminum wears on the handles where it hits the tang pin. After thousands of flips the blade gets a little loose when locked. The lock can get loose, but a light tap on the cut-out will tighten it up.

Personally, after following Turber's exploits and products for years on this forum, I think if you get a crummy knife, you should not be suprised. If however, you get from him a good product, that's not a copy, for a reasonable price, your damn lucky and maybe he's really changed.
 
I have also not had good luck with Bear MGC Balisongs. While Jags tend to have pins that break easily, Bears have handles that crack easily, in my experience.

Like I said, these are only my own experiences and are based on a small number of specimens, but I won't waste my money on Bears or Jags in the future.
 
Ok, I've got mine in hand...

To the untrained eye, it looks pretty nice. Mine's sharp. But upon closer inspection there are lots of ugly aspects. I only had a couple "flash" marks on mine, but the blade finish is just uuuuugly.

Anyway, it's waaaay better than any comparably priced Bali I've ever handled. It's well worth the money in my opinion.
 
Roshi Could the Blade Forums Moderator who encouraged you to post this be the same person who has been attacking Mike ever since the Shot Show incident hmmmmmmm???
 
I'm not sure what the controvery is. Someone posted their opinion and it's not so positive. So what?
 
Podad,

My original post seems to have taken on a life of it's own.

I have not followed the details of the Mike Turber controversies here in Blade Forum. The moderator didn't encourage me based on pro or against Mike, That moderator saw my post selling the Cheetah that included much the same verbage as the post that started this string. It was suggested that I should turn it into a regular review. I agreed.

I felt that the wave of unbridled gushing enthusiasm for the prepro Cheetah expressed in the Balisong Forum was unwarranted based on the knife I purchased directly from WOW.

I was disappointed by the overly patronizing review in the June Blade which I can only assume was done without ever seeing a real Cheetah. That told me that Blade was pretty much a slave to its proponents and advertisers (surprise, surprise). However, I do appreciate Dexter writing the article and Blade publishing it since it does present balisongs in the way they deserve to be presented.

I decided it was unfair to criticize the Cheetah in detail in the post that Mike Turber originated so I posted here.

I have no political agenda. My only "mission" was to put some balance into evaluating the Cheetah so some one who only had $ 25 to spend wouldn't waste it expecting a $ 25 knife like I did.

You may note in Mike Turber's reponse to my post here that he didn't refute anything I said.

The market will utimately decide if the Cheetah survives. I sincerely hope Mike Turber corrects all the defects and is successful in his venture. However, I won't buy anymore BOSS knives without seeing them in person.
 
Everyone has a valid point. It seems that Mike realized that the prepros were of sub par qualitty and that is why he pulled the molds and changed factories. After playing with my knife for a week, the handles unreliably lock open and closed, sometimes they do, sometimes they dont. Not sure why this is but regardless, its happening. Also , the interface between the bushing and the pivot is one of two main factors contributing to the blade play. the bushings need to be at much closer tolerances to the pivot. That problem is the main =reason my knife doesnt lock any more. Im glad to hear that Gen 2 has the possibility of being higher quality. Keep in mind that the prepro release was somewhat unexpected and more of an off the cuff release, so Im not too surprised at what we got.
 
I had a back order with 888Knivesrus for months before receiving my cheetah. I wondered why the price was lower than I expected. I was given the opportunity to cancel my backorder but was not told that the knife was any different than expected. I would have appreciated a few more details in the email. I knew I wasn't going to get Microtech quality in a $20 knife, but am still a bit disappointed. I don't think I would take a chance on a 2nd generation knife without feedback from forum members.
 
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