Continued Assisted opener discussion

Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

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This thread was suggested by Carlos to continue the discussion on Assisted Openers on a more contemporary level.

At this time, an Assisted opener is still under consideration. Out of resepct for Ken, we would need Ken's (Kershaw) blessing. Yes, it is possible to design around the patents, but we would prefer to honor inventors and designers rather than skirt them.

Any folder that Spyderco makes, (and now FB's) will have to have our Spyderco round hole trade-mark. To make Spyderco folders without the round hole would dilute the strength of our trademark. And yes, it does create some design limitations.

Eric has an AO design (Domino) that uses a Kit Carson flipper. He also has a manual version designed,. also with a Carson "flipper". We showed the pieces at the UK (Leeds) and Netherlands (Amsterdam) meets as well as the IWA show in Nurenberg.

Reaction was good.

sal
 
Sal, why bother? It appears that the Assisted Opener is headed toward legal oblivion, either by court action or by statutory action including it in with switchblades. I have played with them and I find that I can open any Spyderco just as quickly as I can open an AO knife, so what is the gain from the additional complication?
 
They are great novelty items. I have owned a Scallion, Leek, BlackOut, Chive, and had a SOG Twitch XL also for a time. I still have the Chive and Scallion but the Scallion torsion bar spring was not replaced after it broke the fourth time. Since then I've grounded off the flipper and drilled a small hole in the blade so the detent ball actually engages it now. Its just a regular old one hand opener now. The Chive is barely used and people do get a kick out of how it works. I got it for my wife and she nearly cut herself opening it. That was a flop of an idea. Now it just sits as a safe queen.

I have had to call Kershaw twice. Once for a new spring for the BlackOut and once for the Scallion. Each time they sent me 5 springs when I asked for one so that kind of tells me two things. One they are great at customer service, and two, they know it will break again. Sure enough it did on the Scallion. I still have two springs left on the BlackOut, but gave the knife and two springs to my son to take to Iraq with him. It has lost a spring twice also.

I love Kens designs. He is a genius as far as I'm concerned. There are legal issues to deal with for the individual that carries one of these though. Talk to five LEOs and you'll get five different answers as to the legality of it.

Don't get me wrong. I'd buy an assisted opening Spyderco just for the novelty of it and the surefire collectibility too but be prepared for another item to have to replace frequently and you might take into consideration the added postage and extra spring costs per knife from that venture when coming up with a price to the ELU. Not that you haven't already thought of that.

That is my .02 worth Sal.

STR
 
I handle the AO proto in Amsterdam and liked the system. It was a fun knife, more so than the manual. To me AO opening is more fun than practical. And whether or not I would buy one would depent on the overall package. I do like the fact that Spyderco has build a proto.

JD
 
Hi Hugh,

It is still a novelty that ELUs want. If we did it, we wouldn't go big, just make some available for those interested.

We believe there is enough interest worldwide to investigate.

In the end, they will either become illegal or ALL spring loaded knives (including autos) will be legal. I can't predict, but IMHO, as I watch laws restricting knives pop up all over the world, I think many knives will become illegal to carry, but still legal to own.

Balisongs are now illegal to own in Germany, where as 2 years ago, they were legal to carry. The times, it seems, are changing :rolleyes:

sal
 
I think that, while an AO would be a fun toy to play with at times, it would not have enough practical value to justify my investment. Like has been said, I bet a lot of LEOs would mark it as a switchblade even though it needs the jump start.

Though, it is not like I have been judicious in my knife spending in the first place. I would probably buy one.
 
I would buy one for shure. Apart from the fact that there are some legal issue's i believe an AO with a flipper would be a great addition to the Spyderco line. :thumbup:
 
an AO cricket would be nice as i have trouble opening it quickly
i almost had to buy a leek to see if i could make my cricket AO but swaping parts and milling the cricket to hold them thats still not out of the question
on large spyders i dont have the problem but the small ones get me every time

so something cute small and quick is what i would be looking for also maybe just a little sheeple friendly would be nice
butch
 
I like back locks and round blade hole opening much better – simpler, faster, less legally questionable.


How ‘bout some more Waved Spydercos instead?





- Frank
 
There are waved Spyderco. Well just the Endura. I'm am pretty sure you are saying you'd like to see more of them.

I would love to see a Waved Para Military....(with a Frame lock :P ).

If Spyderco made an AO, I say it should be a small one. I'd buy one. Like butcher_block said, the sheeple friendliness is a good thing.
 
Sal Glesser said:
I can't predict, but IMHO, as I watch laws restricting knives pop up all over the world, I think many knives will become illegal to carry
Click to expand...

We have to do what we can to promote our interests, at least here in the USA.

We can make noise just like the NRA or anyone else.

Don't want to see carry laws become more restrictive!
 
I have never been a huge fan of AOs because I always felt that simpler is better. Less moving parts means less things to break. And a one-handed opening knife can be opened just a tick slower than an AO. Also, you can't beat the wave. If they should make any knife illegal, it should be ones with waves. Hope they don't though. Love them!
 
The "Waves" would have to have to be ok'd with Emerson Knives as we did with the current models.

I would opt for the "removable" version of the Emerson Wave that we put on the P'Kal.

But that's another discussion.

sal
 
I think that removable is the way to go also Sal. I have noted that more than once on the Emerson knives that don't come Waved from the factory such as the Persian. They Wave just fine by removing the thumb disc and installing a thumb Wave. In fact in some ways they actually grab and work better and seem kinder on the pockets.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=54203&d=1142704335
STR
 
I think Spyderco makes the easiest and smoothest opening knives on the market. Why would they need an AO in their line-up. I'd rather see something new, rather then an AO take over a slot in their line-up.
 
I agree with STR on this issue. I would buy a Spyderco AO just for the novelty of having one.

However, I cannot say for sure whether or not I would end up carrying an AO. In the past, I have talked to a few cops in my area regarding carrying knives in my town. One of the questions that I asked the cops was if a one-handed knife (such as a Spydie) would be a problem. They said no. However, they added that spring-operated knives are not legal. More than likely I will never have an encounter with a cop that will require me to disclose what I am carrying...but it is still a concern.

I think that the demand for a Spyderco AO would be there from both Spydie fans & AO fans. I can't wait to see what the design looks like.

Tom
 
pjrocco said:
I think Spyderco makes the easiest and smoothest opening knives on the market. Why would they need an AO in their line-up. I'd rather see something new, rather then an AO take over a slot in their line-up.
Click to expand...

Agreed. If there is one, I would rather see an AO Spydie as a lower-end "fun" knife that will be more affordable and accessible to the general public. The idea would be to generate more mass market sales for the company the way the Speed Safe line does for Kershaw. However, when I think Spyderco, I think pragmatism, not novelty. So Sal, perhaps you can build a better Leek!:D
 
I just can't see an assisted opening Spyderco. The ergonomics of most Spydercos is such that there is no difficulty in opening manually.

The prospect of a Ken Onion/Spyderco is interesting though. The Spyker doesn't count becuas eit just looks like a Ken Onion knife with a Spyderco hole. I'd like to see something new and unique (and without words scratched on the blade).
 
Lately I've been on a Kershaw kick and I do really like their designs. I really wish however that I could get a "non-assisted" Leek from Kershaw.

My local law states that I cannot carry a "switchblade" and also now not an assisted opening knife. I cannot carry any knife that is helped open by anything except your hand.

I found this out about 2 weeks ago. Due to this I will be buying less assested opening knives from Kershaw.

Personally I think that the Spyderco designs are great without AO. I don't think it's needed at all on Spyderco's.

I can flip a Paramilitary open about as fast or faster than AO when I hold the comp lock. I also think that you can spyderdrop or just use regular opening on just about any knife and it's way fast enough.

The best kind of quick opening feature is already out there and you've used it already on 2 of your knives. The Wave from Emerson.

;)

Thanks for the question Sal!
 
Sal Glesser said:
At this time, an Assisted opener is still under consideration. Out of resepct for Ken, we would need Ken's (Kershaw) blessing. Yes, it is possible to design around the patents, but we would prefer to honor inventors and designers rather than skirt them.

Any folder that Spyderco makes, (and now FB's) will have to have our Spyderco round hole trade-mark. To make Spyderco folders without the round hole would dilute the strength of our trademark. And yes, it does create some design limitations.
Click to expand...
Hi Sal,

I know you wish to respect a previous idea, but perhaps something could be gained by implementing a new design for an assisted opener? Perhaps a better way to build an assisted opener would be discovered, or some new discovery that would benefit your company and customers?

I personally would hate to see Spyderco limit the designs coming out, because of having to have a round hole in every blade. I am not a lawyer, but I think the whole trademark on the round hole is quite weak from reading this. I would hate to see Spyderco limit their designs for a trademark that may be easy to overturn in the courts in the future.

When I flip through the Spyderco catalog, I am always amazed at how innovative the designs are. As a customer, I hope you continue to bring new designs that are cutting edge. The only reason I mentioned the AO and the round hole, is that I feel they could be limiting innovation on other products that could be made. I want Spyderco to keep bringing the sharpest, best steel, and ergonomic designs possible.

PS - Can't wait to get my hands on the ZDP Delica.
 
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