Curbing knock-offs

Joined
Jan 24, 2001
Messages
915
Well, the hot topic for the weeks seems to be knock-offs, so I thought a thread dedicated to curbing knock-offs (that doesn't have other sub-plots) would be in order. As naive as it may sound, what can you, as a consumer, do to curb knock-offs? I'll start it off... I guess:
  • In addition to not buying knockoffs don't support stores (including on-line stores) that sell them.
  • Let businesses you see selling this stuff that you won't give them business (and have your friends follow suit) as long as they continue to sell knockoffs. I'm sure a company like knifezilla would love take to heart 1000+ e-mails telling them they won't buy from them anymore.
Anybody else??
 
That's a hard thing to do as most people who know anything about knives , knows knock offs are cheap junk and there is really no way of leting people who don't know anything about knives , that they are hurting the knife industry .
I hate junk knives:barf: :barf: :barf:
 
I have contacted companies that sell knock-offs and let them know that I consider this to be wrong.

There is not a chance that I would support a B&M or web based store that sold knock-offs. I have nothing against them selling cheap knives, just not designs ripped off from others.
 
As I don't and haven't gotten any nockoffs. I don't think a threat would be very effective from a non customer. Btw would this include all the companies that have nocked off the Buck 110? If so there would be damn few companies to choose from.
 
Keith M., you bring up a point I've been wrestling with, I don't support the buying of knock offs, but I can see where some people want to buy cheap knives.

Are buying cheap original designs, or copies of standard patterns,(Trappers, Congress) as offensive as buying knock offs?

How many original designs are really just variations of older patterns?

Aren't they knock offs too?
 
I belong to NICA (National Independent Cutlery Association). http://www.nicacutlery.org

At their yearly meeting this very subject was discussed. This statement was suggested and approved: "NICA members will not knowingly sell any product which appears to be counterfeit. NICA members will also be vigilant in an attempt refuse to sell any product which presents a trade mark infringement." A press release will be sent out to major magazines.

To stop the problem, the buying public must support those retailers that abide by this philosophy.

Here are some of the problems these retailers face:

While most traditional retailers spent the past year struggling to stay in business, Ebay doubled their bottom line profit. (What percentage of Ebay cutlery sellers would agree to not sell knockoffs?)

Internet stores have cut traditional profit margins to unheard of levels. Not too many years ago, Manufacturers Suggested Retail Price was considered a fair price. Now MSRP has become the "dirty word" of the buying public. Consistant internet prices of 30%-40% off MSRP have become the norm.

As a normal retailer trying to stay in business it is hard not to be tempted to sell a product that even at heavily discount prices allows at least a 50% - 60% mark-up, while a modest 30% markup of brand name cutlery is now scoffed at as being too high priced!

To stem the flow of counterfeits, and knock-offs, the buying public, retailers, and manufacturers must all work together.

The public must be willing to not purchase knock-offs. They must go one step further by buying only from those retailers that refuse to sell knock-offs.

The retailers must make a commitment to refuse to sell such products.

Finally the manufacturers must consider the prices customers now seem to be willing to pay for their products (MSRP has become a myth). They must look at their operation, become more efficient, and produce a knife that still mainatins quality, but is priced at a level that causes the general public to not consider a knock-off. The manufactures must create an environment where retailers that refuse to sell knock-offs are rewarded and those that do sell knock-offs are punished(perhaps price incentives).

Have you noticed that some companies are less likely to have their knives "knocked off". Columbia River Knife and Tool produces a quality product at a price point that doesn't cause the buyer to consider a knock-off at a lower price. The knock-off manufactures can not produce a product at a substantially lower price. Most of the buying public isn't interested in saving a few bucks for a knife of much lower quality.


T. Erdelyi, you make a very good point. What do most people consider a knock-off? Does taking a handle design from one knife, and a blade design from another knife constitute a knock-off or just an uninspired (or overly inspired) knife design? Is a knock-off a knife design that infringes on trademarks, or just cashes in on those designs that haven't been trademarked? Which is more important, what we consider knock-offs or what the courts consider a knock-off?



Pam
alchemyknife
edited for spelling.
 
I personally will not buy from any retailer or dealer that sells knockoffs, but what makes me sick is when big name factory brands import inferior crappy knockoffs and put their names on it.
 
rant mode: ON

I'm personally getting tired of reading about knock offs. I understand that they hurt designers, and true knife company's but look at it from my angle.

A little back ground: I got my first knife when I was 9. a small shrade old timer. I was hooked immediately. however, I broke it by the time I was 11 or so. I went knife less until I was about 14 when a new store opened in town. they had lots of nifty knives(mostly "knock offs" as I know now). so I was happy I could get a new knife. I remember paying 15$ for a voyager clone at one point that lasted from when I was 16 til just before I turned 19(I gave it away after that). now I'm 21, I'm poor as dirt. If it wasn't for the grace of god and a little luck I would have never known there was knives that cost more than 20$. I got my first "expensive" knife after I turned 20, I bought a spyderco endura(remember, this is my angle, and I make less that 15 grand a year).

I still buy knock offs though, and I will continue as long as I need knives that I can beat up/lose/trade/whatever and not feel guilty about.

the only way the knife industry will get rid of knock offs is to create original peices with low prices(under 30$, remember, 50$ is still expensive in my angle). what Mike is doing with BOSS knives is a step in the right direction. hopefully more people will follow his lead and I won't have to read any more "boycott the knock off-ers!" threads.

Rant off.:cool:

(yes I'm sure there are some spelling errors, I'm sorry if I didn't catch them).
 
There are lots of under $30.00 knives that aren't knock-offs. Just because a person can't afford more than that doesn't mean they have to support these sleazy manufacturers.
 
The problem really is that most people who buy cheap knives will buy knock-offs without even knowing it. Sure knife enthusiasts like us know what models a ripped but just like my freind, most people will simply pick up a knife for how it looks, and the original makers make some great looking designs. It is sad but I don't think that there is a whole lot to do to stop it. If there is a demand, they will keep doing it, and I don't see the cheap knife market slowing down.
 
The only companies who have the money to pursue knock-off designs are the large companies or conglomerates not associated with knives, such as Disney or the clothing designer lables. A knife designer will usually not have the time or money to pursue his or her rights.

Knowledgable buyers can vote with their wallets. Nevertheless, it seems that there are then two different markets - the knife-illiterates that the knock-off makers pursue; and the knowledgable knife buyers, for whom only the real McCoy is what's sought after.

Maybe the knife manufacturers or designers can develop a campaign that highlights the good points of a well-made blade, for whom it's makers and designers should be compensated, so that more buyers are made more knife-literate and therefore, more responsible as buyers.
 
Knockoffs?
They're not that threatening... as a matter of fact, I think that it helps...

I believe that almost every single one of us started our knife collection or interests with knockoffs or cheapies. Then, our search for better quality and designs took off. I bet that if we had to spend a hundred or more dollars for our first knives, half of us would be collecting stamps or coins instead.

As for taking business away from the original companies? I don't think so... Do you really think that someone is going to actually think... "wow, I could spend two hundred dollars on this Microtech, but I'll get this cheaper copy for ten bucks... I'm sure the quality is just as good".

What you have in this crusade against knockoffs is elitism, trade protectionism as well as price fixing... it's all actually very anti-capitalistic. As long as they copies do not come with the trademarked logo's (counterfeits), there is no issue.
 
Originally posted by Keith Montgomery
There are lots of under $30.00 knives that aren't knock-offs. Just because a person can't afford more than that doesn't mean they have to support these sleazy manufacturers.

I agree with Keith. We try to stock knives in a range of prices, but they are all "real" knives. And if you want a nicer/bigger/cooler looking knife, then just save up for one instead of wasting money on a fake.
 
Originally posted by MelancholyMutt
Knockoffs?
They're not that threatening... as a matter of fact, I think that it helps...

I believe that almost every single one of us started our knife collection or interests with knockoffs or cheapies. Then, our search for better quality and designs took off. I bet that if we had to spend a hundred or more dollars for our first knives, half of us would be collecting stamps or coins instead.

As for taking business away from the original companies? I don't think so... Do you really think that someone is going to actually think... "wow, I could spend two hundred dollars on this Microtech, but I'll get this cheaper copy for ten bucks... I'm sure the quality is just as good".

What you have in this crusade against knockoffs is elitism, trade protectionism as well as price fixing... it's all actually very anti-capitalistic. As long as they copies do not come with the trademarked logo's (counterfeits), there is no issue.


I disagree. I don't think they help get people into knives any more than non-knock-off cheap knives do. There is no reason that a company should have to steal the designs of another, other than that they have no imagination of their own and/or that they are completely unethical.

People that buy these types of knives are not knowledgeable about what they are purchasing. They will seldom differentiate between the knock-off and the original. Many will think that because the knock-off was a POS that the original might not be all that much better and will not purchase one in the future, even if they do start to purchase more expensive knives. This association of the knock-off to the original is what can do the damage.

I also don't consider it elitism to want to show support for companies that do business in an ethical manner and it is certainly not price fixing in any way.
 
Back
Top