Damascus help needed

N

Nic W

Joined
Mar 4, 2001
Messages
3
I have been making Knives from 5160 (old leaf springs) for a few weeks, what quench medium should i use as i have had thin blades warp in water and even linseed oil, by thin I mean less than 2mm.
I started making some damascus on friday, a piece of 5160 sandwiched between to pieces of mild steel, I partially cut this in half and folded it this gives 5 or 6 layers depending on wether you count a double layer of mild as 2 layers, whats the convention on this? how many layers will make a reasonable damascus. Im doing this in a coal fire by hand and have about 12oz at present so I dont want it to all dissapear into scale! as you can see this damascus attempt was a spur of the moment thing and I would be interested to know how many layers people usually start off with and how many folds are made.
 
I don't believe there is a hard and fast rule but what I have seen is a number of folks start with 7 layers, folded 5 or 6 times which ends up being 228 or 556 layers.

C Wilkins
 
Hey Nic, one thing I'd like to mention is the way you started your billet. When you folded it you got a double layer of mild steel in the mix. Succesive folds will do the samething. A better way would be to start with mild sleel-high carbon-mild steel-high carbon, in even numbered increments. Then instead of folding, draw the billet out lengthening it, then cut and stack the billet so that you always have mild steel against the high carbon.
Low numbers of layers, 14 to 20 say, give you a large camouflage like pattern which I think can be quite attractive. For general purposes you want around 150 to 250 layers. When the pattern gets up to 500 or more the pattern gets very fine. So to get the most layers with the least forge time, start with thin stock and layer it on up before the first weld. -Guy Thomas
 
I quench 5160 in cheap vegetable oil.
Things to watch out for if you are getting blade warp.
Uneven forging. Forge the same # of blows each side, helps.
Anneal before quenching. This removes stress's from the forging process, also anneal after rough grinding. heavy grinding will induce stress to the blade also.
Thin blades can be quenched using press plates, two heavier plates, bolted each side of the thin blade, quench and remove blade from press plates after the blade is cool.

Mild steel and 5160 would not be my choice of mix for damascus, 5160 has 60 points of carbon, when mixed with mild steel you will get a lower carbon content than the original 60 points, that is if you have a higher layer count, above 200-250 layersa the mix starts to become homogenous.

When you fold, and get mild/mild insert another piece of 5160.



------------------
Sola Fide
 
Next time stack a bittet with 5160 and band saw steel (L6) That way the carbon when the carbon migrates between the two steels it wont go down Mild steel looks nice in damascus but absorbs some of the carbon resulting in a blade that wont harden properly and wont hold an edge. It makes good gaurd material though. Looks good blued too. I have the best luck with 1/8" 1084 and 15n20 Both are high cabon and make a nice contrast. Be sure you keep anhydrous boxax on to prevent decarb and scale buildup which prevents a good weld. Bruce
 
I use two different quenching mediums for 5160
redface.gif
ne is like goddards goo-- a mixture of paraffin wax and lard and a little transmission fluid(this works outstanding),I also use a mixture of peanut oil-transmission fluid and burnt motor oil...
On really thin blades I will most of the time heat treat the profiled blade before I start grinding,other wise try leaving it a little thicker before you quench.
As for the damascus You have to much mild steel in this mixture,add more 5160 to the out side of the billet now and then add some other kind of HIGH carbon metal to the mixture and then you can add some more 5160 and then give it a few folds and you should be ok to get a good quench.Best thing is to try quenching the bar after you are done and see if it takes a quench and if it doesnt harden as well as you want just anneal the billet and add some more high carbon steel to the mix and try it again....
Bruce

------------------
Bruce Evans Handcrafted Knives
The soul of the Knife begins in the Fire!!!!!
Member of,AKTI#A000223 and The American Bladesmith Society
asmallpicofbruceforforums.jpg
 
Many thanks for the replies, I have added 5160 to the inside of subsequent folds,to try to increase the carbon content, however I think I will try a paper knife pretty soon with a small section rather than spend too much more time going for hundreds of layers. when I forge the blade should I only work it at near welding heat to stop it delaminating ? Also what process should i use after grinding through the layers to highlight the different metals, should I "harden" the blade even though it would be OK soft? Nic
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top