Desperately need help!

S

SpyderNoir_JHA

Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Messages
55
Friends,

Following a variety of unfortunate and unplesant circumstances, I find myself facing non-criminal charges at my university for possessing knives in on-campus housing. The potential consequences are grave.

As part of the defense I am mounting, I wish to cite an FBI report I have seen mentioned on these boards from time to time. The findings in the report were that in the majority of knife violence committed in the United States, the knife used is a kitchen knife, not a pocketknife. So I ask you, anybody, if you have any information about how to locate this report or any similar credible information, please contact me. If, for whatever reason, you have information but do not wish to post it here, please send it to my e-mail address: SpyderNoir_JHA@yahoo.com. Thank you.



Hunter
 
Jeez! That's terrible! I had my little urban shark (2.5 inch) when I lived on campus last year. Was your knife legal otherwise? I'll bet you'll get off...why not get in touch with a criminal justice / law professor at your U. for advice (there should be a student attourney also) and you can get in touch with your local PD for some statistics, I'll bet. Do you happen to attend Georgetown?
 
Hunter,

I really hope things turn out well for you. That really stinks. It's a shame how the public looks at knives these days when only 30-50 years ago everyone carried a pocket knife.

I would also suggest trying to let some folks in the law/pre-law area at your university help you out with this.

I wish you well.
David
 
Artfully's right--get legal assistance.

But keep this in mind--if the campus policies say no knives, then it doesn't matter what any FBI stat says, or even what state law and local jurisdiction may allow. The rules are the rules.

The campus can easily be private property--and definitely so in on-campus housing--and that's that, as far as they're concerned.

You'd might be better off taking the tone of "but this isn't a weapon, it's a pocket knife!"

Either way, don't even attempt to mount a defense without experienced help, or you're sunk. After all, you can't reason them out of a decision they didn't reason themselves into.
 
I gotta ask, what sort of knife got you into hot water? A simple pocket knife? A hunting knife? Something scary?

Reason I'm curious, college students often ask on the forums what sort of knife would be suitable for EDC at a university. The standard answer is something non-threatening and traditional, like a Swiss Army Knife. Hope you didn't get some bad advice...

-Bob
 
Watchful said:
After all, you can't reason them out of a decision they didn't reason themselves into.
Click to expand...

Depressingly true.

I did a search for FBI knife statistics. Maybe some of these links will give you some help.

That the charge are non-criminal sounds like a student handboook violation. Unless they caught you with an arsenal, you might have to end up pleading guilty to bad judgement.

Please let us know how this turns out. :(
 
I appreciate the advice people have given me so far. Unfortunately, the nature of the judicial hearing process at the George Washington University is such that I cannot have legal representation. However, I know that the knives (we're talking SwissTech Utilikey, Victorinox Swiss Tool, Wenger Standard Issue, Spyderco Cricket, and Small Sebenza) are permissable under the legal codes of the District of Columbia.

As far as the university's being private property is concerned, yes, it is, but I believe it receives a sufficient amount of federal funding to "stand in the shoes of the government" for Constitutional purposes. That means that even if I lose this hearing (and face potentially dire consequences,) I may have legal recourse based on the 5th Amendment due process clause, or other parts of the Constitution.

When it comes to my defense, the "it's not a weapon, it's a tool" is just about the only option I have. The Student Code of Conduct specifies no knives, but the University Police officers who searched my room did not confiscate a table knife I had among my silverware. This points to a recognition that knives are not banned for the sake of banning knives, but for the sake of banning weapons. As I am endeavoring to demonstrate, my knives are not weapons. What's more, I have worked for, and am considering working again for the foremost knife and tool purveyor in the DC/MD/VA area: Chesapeake Knife and Tool. My knives had a job-related purpose.

Either way, the charges are not criminal, and the worst that could happen is strictly school-related punishment. Still, that can be serious.

I would like to say that I am continually amazed by the sense of concern and compassion displayed on these forums. I sincerely thank you all for your help.
 
Personally I think that if you stick with the "it's not a weapon it's a tool" view you'll be fine.

Tell them you have kitchen knives that are larger and sharper.

If they are banning knives in general in your housing then tell them that they must ban knives that are in the cafeteria and in other places.

How are you supposed to open packages that you get that are taped shut? Seriously. What are you supposed to use?.......a pen?......scissors?......if a pen and scissors can open a package then they are weapons also.

What if you work for an electrician while you are in college and you have to have a knife for work? Where do you keep it?

It's so freaking stupid it's not even funny how much people need knives in every day life.

I have people ask to borrow mine all the time because they know when I'm at work I have a SAK on me. People should quit borrowing and own knives instead :)

Good luck bro.
 
My school does not allow knives in the Dorms as well but i have some for opening things and just general purposes. Now that this has happened i may return my knives to my home when i go back and just keep my SAK here...Also why was your room searched? I know here your dorm is your private property and they are not allowed to search it or come in unless invited. The only wasy they can even look into your room is in the mandatory fire inspection which they come in and look at the fire sprinklers around the room but they cannot touch anything. Maybe at your school they have different rules but i was under the impression that your room is your property as in many of my friends schools.
 
Do the campus police have a beef against you? Do you have a criminal record? Do they have probable cause that would give them the ability to do this? I just can't believe that a responsible, law abiding student would be brought under such scrutiny unless there were something more to zap you with.

I would go under the TOOL argument unless they have something else on you.

Can they prove you used it to threaten someone or intended harm? Other than this it seem like a very stupid and shallow argument.

I will tell you this. Just like it looks good for a company to fire people, it looks good for a school to put students under charges like this. It makes them feel good that they are clensing the campus of the "rabble" and makes them sleep easier at night.

Some people collect guns, some people collect knives, some people collect teddy bears, some people collect cars. It's all the same. Don't feel guilty about this. You are not to blame. A system that doesn't work is to blame. They are considering you guilty before proven innocent and that's wrong.

I will be praying for you.

May God give you the courage to stand firm.
 
Looks like you're getting some good advice already, and I think you'll get even more in the Knife Laws forum.

ThreadMoving.jpg
 
I think you are already on the right track, at least as good as you could hope for. They didn't care about the kitchen knives, so "no knives" surely only refers to weapons, not just any knife, and take it from there with current advice.

What exactly does the school policy say? Does it really say "no knives on campus," or does it say "no weapons, such as guns, knives, clubs...?"

Don't get tough unless they do. Don't tell them their policy is dumb, tell them you don't understand why they would assume any knife you have is a weapon, or why they would have meant for the policy to mean that, and assumed their policy against weapons referred only to weapon-only knives like daggers (sharpened both sides) and stilettos (basically a spike, with little or no sharp edge). Bring up the kitchen knife AFTER this fails to produce a reasonable response, because it might sound a little sarcastic. First wait for their response on what their "weapon" policy means. If they say "it means all knives," you don't have much choice but to bring it up yourself. If they say "well, we don't assume just ANY knife" and bring up kitchen utensiles themselves, then you have an opening to talk about the specific design and uses of your knife.
 
So you were not carrying the knives at the time of the search? Argue that your pocket knives fall in the same category as kitchen knives, pencil sharpeners, shaving razors, scissors etc: edged tools.
 
Amazing. The knives you listed are all extremely tool-oriented equipment, except perhaps for the Sebenza -- which is so expensive, it qualifies as a collector's item as much as anything.

Very good advice from Carl64, which from your own tone i think you would do anyway: be cool. Don't get into arguments over definitions or rights as such, only that you very much believed and agreed that weapons would be inappropriate, and that's why you only had knives-as-tools, just like the kitchen knives everyone uses.
 
The whole thing is outrageous I'm sure you will win. There's not much I can add - "It is not a weapon but a tool", They didnt take your table knives!, it's like saying if you stuck your folders in a kitchen set it would no longer be a weapon. It sounds like security had nothing better to do! :mad:
 
If they took a small Sebbie and a bunch of SAKs, I don't think you'll have too much trouble. I bet you could have found an SAK in the pocket of one of the officers searching your room.

I wish you the best of luck on this, it's very unfortunate.
 
Well, George Washington carried a pocket knife:

cmgw.jpg


Maybe they should just disband the university altogether since their namesake was himself quite a criminal, because it logically follows that, since he carried a pocket knife, he intended to murder people.

If you want, tell me every single detail you can and I'll write a speech and it can be modified by our colleagues here on bladeforums at your university. And it wouldn't include sarcastic rhetoric like my previous statement.
 
SpyderNoir_JHA said:
...Unfortunately, the nature of the judicial hearing process at the George Washington University is such that I cannot have legal representation...
Click to expand...
You probably can't have legal representation present, but you should certainly get free advice beforehand. If nothing else, you can try your arguments and see how they go over. My hunch is that you'll get advice like "Don't ever say that... instead, phrase it like this...."

SpyderNoir_JHA said:
... However, I know that the knives (we're talking SwissTech Utilikey, Victorinox Swiss Tool, Wenger Standard Issue, Spyderco Cricket, and Small Sebenza) are permissable under the legal codes of the District of Columbia.
Click to expand...
Sounds like they got you on quantity; "We'd let it any one of them slide, but you've got a whole pile here" kind of thing... you're probably going to need an explanation for each one of those.
 
Watchful said:
Y

Sounds like they got you on quantity; "We'd let it any one of them slide, but you've got a whole pile here" kind of thing... you're probably going to need an explanation for each one of those.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with "I collect knives"?

Other people collect Hot Wheels, old beer cans, keychains, old woodworking tools, etc...
 
You can also collect firearms, too, but that doesn't make them allowable on private property.

I'd stick with Chesapeake Knife and Tool as the defense: I need 'em for the job: I need to cross-evaluate them as they're competing products. And they're clearly marketed for and intended as tools, which is why you don't see any 'combat' or 'fighting' blades in there.
 
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