Dissappointed.....

R

rev_jch

Joined
Jul 29, 2002
Messages
3,228
Well, the other day I was in the local farm/hardware store I saw a display of schrade knives, old timers and uncle henry. I was excited! but, as I looked closer, to my dismay, they were the new "cheap" taylor made knives.

From far awy they looked great, but on closer inspection, aside from the "ill fit and finish", even the tang stamps were irregular and crooked! Well I suppose we'll just being seeing more of this stuff, but it doesnt make it sit any easier! Remebering how schrade use to be, and how it is now, sxstil makes me sad over what happened.

The saddest part was, or I suppose its a "toss up" (between the quality and the price) was the price (?) they were expensive, even if they had been "real" american made schrades, they would have not cost as much as they did.
 
rev_jch,
I noticed you list Columbus in your profile. That store you were in didn't happen to be named "Andersons" did it?
If so I noticed the same thing. At the prices I saw I will be surprised if they sell very many. It seemed like the real Schrades never moved that quick anyway and they were about the same price.
 
I have to agree with you on the new Schrade's. It's sad when some of the Rough Rider folders I have are of much higher quality than the new Schrades, at 1/3 the cost too. I tried one of the new yellow handled stockmans (8oty?) and the blades were so tight, I couldn't get one open. The scales didn't fit well, etc. Like you said, really dissappointed.

On the other hand, I did find the new China made fixed blade to be a pretty decent knife. The new 153UH I checked out was a pretty good copy of the original. The sheath was terrible, looked like a cheap piece of plastic almost, but the knife would make a good user it appeared. Don't know how the steel will hold up to heavy use, but I'd buy one of those to use. I want to check out the new 160ot and 165ot when they hit and see how they look. Taylor has a long way to go on the folders though. That, and the fact they still insist on putting the American flag on their box!
 
I'm still carrying and using my 129OT Schrade Classic in Sheep Horn, and so far it's going strong. Blades hold their edges well. I did order site unseen to 128OT's from the same series for XMASS gifts, and the metal work was just as good as my 129OT, but the Sheep Horn wasn't quite as nice, rough outer bark with some sharp points that I had to smooth down to prevent pocket wear and they didn't fit up to the bolsters as good as the 129OT.

Blades and backsprings were great though, razor sharp and strong snap.
 
Really cool Nice. To quote reference and contributions to the forum. Rough Riders are the best made foreign imports for the price. They will undoubtably rule the market. That dosent mean that I like them it simply gives the devil its due. I am glad some of the people who own them and other communist labor produced knives are enjoying them and owning them. I am also glad that they are getting a fair ( in some cases ) assessment. They and what they represent are simply not my ( er cup of tea so to speak ). AHHHH SOOOO LT
 
larmar said:
I have to agree with you on the new Schrade's. It's sad when some of the Rough Rider folders I have are of much higher quality than the new Schrades, at 1/3 the cost too.
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I'll say first that I don't own a Rough Rider, but:

I've looked at the images of them. It looks to me that they are much more of a machine-produced product than Schrades were.

Schrade's production methods were definitely old-fashioned and that was undoubtedly part of their problem when they started to deal with with mass-production for Wal-Mart and other retailers.

Getting back to Rough Riders, it seems that they have their fair share of QC issues and maybe then some. When you get a good one, though, they seem to be very good. I've noticed that Smoky Mountain Knife Works has disclaimers like this on Rough Rider knives:

Bone is a natural handle material prone to cracking; may have cracks near the pins or bolsters
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This disclaimer is strangely absent from bone-handled knives from other manufacturers. In other words, sometimes a product doesn't cost less just because labor is cheaper where it is made. In fact this is often the case.

There is an irony in what rev_jch pointed out that can be seen elsewhere. I'm talking about the fact that the Chinese knives cost the same or more, of course. Take designer clothing for instance. You can buy a pair of designer jeans for $60 that probably cost a couple of bucks to produce in the sweatshop where they were made. Or you can go to Union Jean Company and get a pair of USA-made jeans for $30 plus shipping. Outsourcing labor often doesn't benefit the consumer because the price simply isn't passed on. It's just more money in the pockets of the business as well as the retailers that sell the product.
 
Phil, yes it was at anderson's! The one over off sawmill in columbus. I had though at first since the prices were high that they were "real" schrades, but of course they were not.......not even close!


Ryan, it does seem that often times you do not benefit on the "outsourced" labor (although you do sometimes). Take this for instance. You can buy a coast tek torch for about $19.00. If you buy that same flashlight with the "eddie bauer" imprinted than you pay almost $10.00 more (of course both are made in china, but it just goes to show how things are manipulated).
 
Ryan8 said:
There is an irony in what rev_jch pointed out that can be seen elsewhere. I'm talking about the fact that the Chinese knives cost the same or more, of course. Take designer clothing for instance. You can buy a pair of designer jeans for $60 that probably cost a couple of bucks to produce in the sweatshop where they were made. Or you can go to Union Jean Company and get a pair of USA-made jeans for $30 plus shipping. Outsourcing labor often doesn't benefit the consumer because the price simply isn't passed on. It's just more money in the pockets of the business as well as the retailers that sell the product.
Click to expand...

Yes,the "Designer/importer" still wants to make big $$ if the competition will permit it.
In consumer electronics/appliances,it's cutthroat,though.
I was in the local Walmart this week and saw an 8 cup electric coffeemaker with the price of $4.44. Now,how can they make that,ship it here,and still make a profit with a price of $4.44.
It's scary when you think about what's going to happen when they totally kill off manufacturing in this country.
I've "bought American" all my life but some product lines now have no american manufacturers.
I'll bet Taylor's total cost on these Chinese knives is less than 20% of the MSRP.

Now,I'll ask the knowledgable Schrade aficionado's this question:
Why did Schrade go belly-up while other USA knifemakers like Case,etc. are still in business??
My SWAG is that they got away from their roots,diversifying their product line with many "new/modern" designs.A lot of these "new" designs require automated computer-controlled machines to manufacture a quality product at at a competitive factory cost.
Based on what I've read here,they also had a lot of completed inventory and work-in-process at the time of their closing.Excessive inventory and WIP ties up a lot of capital that could have been better used elsewhere,like buying CNC equipment,etc.
An excessive amount of product designs increases change-over downtime,tooling costs, skill levels required of the production personell,sales costs,inventory and WIP.
What was their Quality Control like? Did they have In-process quality control?Was their 1st time thru yield high/low. Did they have a high rejection rate and rework costs?
Some of you fellows that visited the factory may be able to comment on what you saw.

Merry Christmas to all !!!
 
I have done this so many time I just will not do it again it must be in the archives. LT
 
Yes, the story of the demise itself is easily found in the archives, including the insights of Schrade insiders. Schrade was not the only company to belly-up this century though. Just the only one denied the chance to reorganize/refinance/restart. Schrade was carefully "dismantled" to assure it would not/could not restart.

The wholesale cost of the Chitaylor knives in easy to find out there. The "Charpfinger" wholesales for $12. So wholesaler cost is substantially less. And Taylor's cost is less than that. I have no idea what the new owners/manufacturers sell them to Taylor for, but it can't be much. Retailers, naturally are going to try to sell them for as much as they can, so I would not be surprised to see attempts to double the money at every level of distribution.

Codger
 
I apologise for posing a subject which has apparently been thoroughly hashed out many times on this forum !!
I'll see what I can find in the archives.
Thanks and Merry Christmas !
Ron
 
It is a legit, valid, and great question. However after having written what must be a volume on the subject. I like Roberto Duran must say NO MAS. LT
 
FormerSchradeGuy said:
Relodr, if you don't find what your looking for let me know!
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Thanks !
I found enough to satisfy myself that inept management and maybe,a desire by the private owners to cash in their chips,were the main contributors.
Ron
 
I don't know that the whole story will ever be known, to tell you the truth. I worked for a privately held corporation long enough to know that "hide the weenie" is a well established practice, and all employees are merely pawns in the game. Maybe it has always been this way, but I think it became more pronounced when "personel departments" and "personel managers" became "Human resources" departments and managers.

Our company did an unannounced "reduction in workforce", all the while denying that it was so. Special employee meetings were called by the plant manager, the "Wizard", to soothe the employees and remind them to "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain". One ruse used to shed themselves of unneeded salaried workers (and hourly workers with tenure, i.e. high pay) was to pile on duties and hours, even to require double shifts, off duty callins. Naturally a good percentage of these, the company's braintrust and experience, walked out the door. That company just opened it's Chinese plant. Workers there are more "pliable", easily manipulated without any expectation of compensation.

Codger
 
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