edgepro waterstones clogged?

Joined
Jan 2, 2002
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Hi,

My coarse and medium stones have become quite clogged after reprofiling two knives. I can see lots of black and shiny stuff embedded in the stones.

They don't cut steel anymore, instead they polish it!

No amount of washing will make them cut again.

How can I fix them?

Thanks.

-Jon
 
I'd suggest asking Ben Dale directly.

His email address is Edge Pro [edgepro@gorge.net].

I've forwarded Ben a link to this thread so he can respond here as well.
 
You need to lap your stone. There are many ways of doing this. What I have is a piece of glass with a thin sheet of mylar on it. The mylar does 2 things- it helps hang on to the lapping grit, and it preserves the flatness of the glass. When the mylar wears, I peel it off the glass and put on a new sheet! This stuff can be purchased from www.leevalley.com

Lapping is real easy. You put a teaspoon of 90 grit compound on the lapping plate, add 2 teaspoons or so of water, take your stone and rub the face on the lapping plate in a circular motion! You can feel very quickly the progression of the lapping process. The ends of your stone will feel rough, while the centre is smooth. do 50 more circles, and you'll see that the smooth spot has shrunk! scrub away until the whole surface is refreshed (no smooth, glazed areas)- your stone is now flat! EASY!

I just lapped my 800 grit stone a week ago. It took 8 minutes, including stopping to look at the t.v.

You can also use wet/dry sandpaper on a flat surface. FOr fine hones, use a finer lapping grit or a flat coarse stone.

Enjoy!
 
Ah ha!

Didn't think I needed to lap/straight it that quickly.

I've only done two blades so far, although one was S30V and one was 440V (hah!).

I'll try that tonight. Gotta find a place to get some plate glass. I wonder if a marble tile would work? I'll try to snag some of that mylar too. Pretty cool trick.

- If I can't get that, what grit wet/dry should I use on the 100-grit coarse stone?

Thanks, Crayola. :)

Gabe, I sent an email to him also; thanks for following up with me. I'll post the reply I get.

-Jon
 
biogon :

Didn't think I needed to lap/straight it that quickly.

You don't need to flatten it, just cut the surface down to remove the grit. This should happen very quickly, in 10 s or so.

I wonder if a marble tile would work?

Just about anything will, I often use a concrete block.

what grit wet/dry should I use on the 100-grit coarse stone?

Match the grit to the stone since you are just cleaning it. If you were doing a flattening you would go with the most coarse sandpaper you could find to speed things up. Note that after the lapping the hones will cut much more coarse at first because of the grind lines you just cut into them.

The fact that the stones are filling up so fast indicates that they are not getting enough water. They work best with a presoak and frequent flushing.

-Cliff
 
What I found works best, especially with the coarser stones is to have a container of water sitting next to the area where I'm sharpening and have the stones soaking till I need them.
 
Hmm.

No luck.

With the 100-grit and 180-grit stones, I've tried circular rubbing on 60-grit and 100-grit sandpaper, sand on a marble tile (in a Ziploc bag), and sand in a cardboard box.

In all cases, it seems that the glaze is broken and a rough surface shows through. By the 4th or 5th stroke on steel, the stones are "skipping" across the surface of the steel and polishing instead of biting.

This can't be the "normal" operation, right? The medium stone really is putting a nice, polished edge on, which it shouldn't, right?

I can't find anywhere nearby to snag some plate glass, much less the thick stuff where they can round off the corners properly.

Any other ideas?

:(

-Jon
 
Ben's stones are much finer than a lot of others, so yes his medium hone is actually finer than a lot of fine hones.

However, the cutting action sounds a lot slower than normal. Are you presoaking the stones? It could be that you got a bad batch that doesn't have a high absorption rate. Maybe you could ask Ben to send you a replacement, ideally one which he has tried.

In regards to lapping, you don't need a glass plate. That just insures that you are lapping on a flat surface, which is important if you are refinishing the hone to true. If you are just cleaning the hones just about anything will do.

What kinds of steels are you working with?

-Cliff
 
However, the cutting action sounds a lot slower than normal. Are you presoaking the stones? It could be that you got a bad batch that doesn't have a high absorption rate. Maybe you could ask Ben to send you a replacement, ideally one which he has tried.
It is very odd. When I got them, they cut perfectly well. After reprofiling and sharpening only 5 short blades (all less than 4" long), they've clogged to the point of being mostly useless (i.e. the coarse and medium stones no longer cut steel and only polish.)

So I know they work wonders.

I've tried deglazing and lapping/cleaning the stones on 60-grit wet/dry, sand on cardboard, sand on marble, and they still re-glaze within 3-4 strokes.

How long do you need to presoak? I usually just let them sit under the faucet for 20-30 seconds before starting to sharpen.

Also, how wet do you need to keep them? I've been wetting them so they're soaked, and then wipe off the water on the surface so they're damp but not dripping (isn't that what's in the manual?) It sounds like I might have to run them with a layer of water on the surface?

In regards to lapping, you don't need a glass plate. That just insures that you are lapping on a flat surface, which is important if you are refinishing the hone to true. If you are just cleaning the hones just about anything will do.

What kinds of steels are you working with?
I went out and picked up a marble tile (easiest thing to get that was flat; there are no places where I can have a piece of glass cut!!) and it doesn't seem to make much of a difference compared to the others.

These are all the knives I've sharpened on it:
1 with CPM 440V
2 with CPM S30V
2 with 154CM

Hmm. Maybe I'm not lapping them for long enough, or maybe I have to run them dripping wet?

Thanks :)

-jon
 
I don't know about your stones specifically, but generally speaking you need to soak your coarse to medium waterstones for several minutes. Fine hones just need a wetting and a few seconds to get ready. I have my stones in the Veritas Stone pons from Lee Valley, which makes them ready all the time. Try an experiment. Take one of your glazed stones and clean it on your marble plae with paper. Then submerge it in your sink and time it to see how long it takes before it stops bubbling. I bet it will take longer than 20 to 30 seconds.

Also, you may want to try more fluid while sharpening. Waterstones should never be dry, and the least wet you want them is when the surface is kinda pasty, the paste being a mix of sharpened away steel, crushed stone and water.

Good luck!
 
Crayola,

Gotcha! That sounds great. Thanks so much. :)

I'll try both the extended prewet and keeping it very wet tonight. I love the system. It's never been so easy to put a scary sharp polished edge on the steel.

By the way... 3001 posts. Congrats. ;)

-Jon
 
As Crayola noted, waterstones need to actually be soaked, a quick flushing doesn't give them enough time to actually absorb the water I also keep mine in the same Lee Valley Stone Pond.

The good thing about using waterstones upside down as they are used in the Edge Pro is that the retained water will tend to flow to the surface whereas on a benchstone it drains to the back and they dry out quicker. In any case you want to keep the surface damp as they load up very quickly when wet.

In regards to the high initial cutting ability, all stones have a rough initial finish. You can recapture this by a very coarse lapping like 40 grit sandpaper, or actual sand (like Ben usually provides). This will cut tracks into the hone while recutting all fresh carbides. This performance goes away very rapidly however.

I should mention that you don't actually need to use the fine hones more than 5-6 passes and even then that is excessive. Once you do the initial honing with the coarse stone you just increase the angle 1-2 degrees and then the finer hones will sharpen the very edge in 1-2 passes each. There is no need to hone the entire edge at the finer grits.

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

case you want to keep the surface damp as they load up very quickly when wet.
When wet, or when dry?

In regards to the high initial cutting ability, all stones have a rough initial finish. This performance goes away very rapidly however.
*nod* Perhaps that's what been happening.

Once you do the initial honing with the coarse stone you just increase the angle 1-2 degrees and then the finer hones will sharpen the very edge in 1-2 passes each. There is no need to hone the entire edge at the finer grits.

I never knew that. I'll try that, too. I've liked the look of the polished edge, but there's no reason to remove any more steel if I don't have to! *laugh*

Thanks for your words of advice. I'll try that, too.

Have you ever had any luck with the EdgePro with a tight hawkbill, like a kerambit? I don't think it'll work...

-Jon
 
biogon :

When wet, or when dry?

Dry, wet was a typo.

Have you ever had any luck with the EdgePro with a tight hawkbill, like a kerambit?

If the curvature is extreme you will have difficulty, those types of knives can only be sharpened easily with rods.

-Cliff
 
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