Emerson Customs

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brad1407

Joined
Feb 4, 2000
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I was looking around the Robertson Custom Cutlery site this morning and I am trying to figure something out. I went to the Emerson page and saw all of his knives were selling for $1,500 - $1,700. What is it that makes his knives worth so much more than other custom made tactical folders? I am not trying to start a fight with anyone who loves Emerson's I just wanna know what if anything makes them worth that much more.
 
Emerson customs are pretty hard to come by. They are some of the most in demand knives around today. Currently to order one direct from Emerson, the wait is a minimum of 5 years, and that's if you got your order in before October of 99 (not positive on that date). Mr. Emerson Semi retired then, and is no longer accepting orders, only filling those that he already had on the books. Couple this with the fact that there are relatively few of his knives in existance and this makes them quite valuable to users and collectors alike. The prices you see are what the market will bear right now. People are willing to pay that to get the instant gratification of owning an Emerson custom. I don't own one myself, but I was lucky enough to get an orderin for a couple just before he stopped taking orders. I'm going on 3 years so far, but one day hopefully, I'll be among the few that own some Emerson Customs :) Hope this helps.
 
Thanks for the response I figured there was some reasoning behind it I just couldn't figure it out.
 
If you want an Emerson custom, you can either pay the 1,000+ for it (which not so many of us can do), or you can bring a business card and some luck to a show Ernie's at. He almost always has some customs he raffles off at the show. If your name (or in some cases, number) is called, you have your pick of the customs available, at Ernie's prices ($400-500).
 
The fact that Emerson customs are selling at Robertsons for the prices mentioned is suprising. Just a few months ago, people were bidding up to $2500 or better for his customs. Did some of the custom dealers decide to take a bit of air out of those prices or something?

While I'm not much of a fan of Mr. E, credit is due him for the raffles mentioned. I'd heard that it was the aftermarket where the prices were so ungodly high. Hearing that he charges $400-$500 makes me think he is an honest man, if a bit egocentric. From what I've seen of his knives -- pics of only a few -- the latter prices are fair.

Value and values are some of the most difficult aspects of life to fathom. Sometimes I think I understand something about values, but must admit that I often feel like I don't have a clue about value in the monetary sense. But, as my Dad said to me so many times I wanted to choke him, "Everybody to their own notions, said the old lady as she kissed her cow."
 
Demand for a limited commodity.

I think the reason the prices have fallen a bit from the even more extreme prices is due to the fact he is really trying to fill outstanding orders and more of the customs are becoming available.

I'm not a HUGE fan, but I do like a few of his customs. As far as the quality, he makes a solid custom knife. I wouldn't put them at the top, but they aren't far from it.
 
The prices that you see quoted for Emerson Customs are in the aftermarket and not from Emerson directly.

In terms of the prices falling off, most people who come to the Emerson world want a CQC6 as this is THE knife and a classic in the Tactical folder world. With the work that Emerson has been doing on his order book, there are a number of happy people out there that now have their SIX and some who have sold them. This has softened the pricing on new SIXs.

The prices on older SIXs (halfmoon logo, no date, single bevel etc) are still sold and may be creeping up.

The prices on the other Emerson customs are stable as the demand is still there for CQC5, CQC8 etc, as there have never been enough of these to meet the market demand.

This is my opinion as a Usual Suspect and collector of Emerson knives.

Regards,

Ed
 
Brad,

What you are seeing is Economics 101 in action....supply and demand.

See2, you are are a few years behind the times on your "retail" prices. Folders at the show are now $575 each. Plus if you have to pay to fly, pay for a hotel room, pay for food, pay for admission, pay for a cab or car, just to get one of the knives....maybe. As you can see the retail price of the knife may be $575. However the true cost of the knife is much higher.

Obviously, if you live within driving distance of a show you actual cost will be much less.

Ed Moses brings up some excellent point. Before you go spending your money start doing some homework. As the trade mark, date, bevel, coating or grind can dramatically effect the cost of a particular knife.

Another thing is Population. For example, to date only 18 CQC9's have been made. Does this make this a much more collectible and more in demand and therfore more costly acquisition? Yes.

What is the difference in cost of the following CQC6's in the aftermarket?

CQC6..right hand side grind
CQC6..left hand side grind with double bevel
CQC6..left hand side grind with black coating
CQC6..left hand side grind with SpecWar only
CQC6..left hand side grind with SpecWar and date
CQC6..left hand side grind with Emerson
CQC6..left handed
CQC6..black or green G-10, Micarta
CQC6..stain clip, black clip, Benchmade on clip
CQC6..thumb channel on one side of the bolster
CQC6..thumb channel on both sides of boster.
CQC6..additional file work all around bloster and liner.

Yes, there other options on this style of knife.

Now what about the other styles that Emerson makes.

As you can see there is alot to know, each of the above options are only on a certain number of CQC6's. Do you know how many were made of each one with each option. Don't feel bad, no one does.

Why do all of these knives sell for so much over retail...not all do.

Just some "food" for thought.
 
Hey Les - thanks for the update. :D It's good to see that Ernie's upped the "retail" price a bit, he deserves top dollar for his work(I'm still kicking myself for not ordering a 6 in '94. I'd have it by now, for the aforementioned $400).

As for the price of getting the knife at a show raffle being higher due to plane and hotel pricing, well, I consider those "soft" costs. Why? Because you're going to a new city which can be explored, going to a show and seeing lots of different makers and their wares, and getting a great knife along the way. I wouldn't factor those costs into the knife price, because I'm getting more for that money than just the knife. If I drop $1,000+ on an Emerson through a dealer, or online auction, or whatever, all I'm getting for my money is the knife. I LOVE Ernie's work, don't get me wrong, but I can't justify spending that much on a knife, even if it's one I'm lusting over.
 
Hey Les you are sliping - you forgot the CQC6 Titanium Blade with or without dual logos..... :P

See2 - you are correct that the costs of going to a show can be considered "soft" , but it is still money out of your knife buying budget. If you did not attend a single show, you may be able to buy that $1000 knife.

Regards,

Ed
 
I have a 6 that I obtained about 2 years ago after waiting 5 years from Ernie. The knife was a fair value at $525, extremely well made and thought out. I then ordered an ESM-1 and am waiting. I would like a full dress 6 or 5 but will not pay the market price. Why? Because a long time ago I decided that I enjoy dealing directly with the maker, buying and selling on the open market is not something I do for dollar sake. I just passed up a custom full dress 7 that a reseller wanted $3200US and looked at me as though I was bothering her, even inquring about the price(probably the ugliest custom Emerson I had ever seen by the way). It is the same with watches and cars, I simply will not pay inflated prices for these items. I will find reputable dealers to purchase from and than wait my turn. My Rolex Daytona was obtained after 6 months of waiting and at a 10% discount for cash. The value was acceptable but would not have been at the vastly inflated prices people are are paying for that model. The people who collect and then immedialely sell what they receive just to make a profit are not people I wish to do business with. If collectors would refrain from paying the inflated prices and order and than wait, the market would drop. Do not construe that I am not in favor of a free economy. -

Les, no disrespect, but I have been collecting firearms and knives for over 30 years and I just have to express my self over dealers and collectors finding every little difference and attaching a monetary value to the difference. I think it is meaningless and a mind set that I don't care to deal with. When I hear a seller telling me that this item was produced in a limited number because of some feature, I walk the other way quickly! Some where a long the way, I believe that collectors and dealers have lost sight of reality. I see so much junk that people have attached unrealistic values to, I often wonder if they ever really sell the item for the price they want! Or they tell you that this is what the book says it should cost. The true price is determined by the buyer and seller at the time of sale! Enough of my ranting, Les, I hope I have not affended you because my remarks are not directed at you personally as a reseller. I have not done business with you for obvious reasons but may want to in the future. -Dick
 
Well to defend Les a bit. Those subtle differences does make a monetary difference. It is not the dealers marking up the price, it is supply and demand/what the market will bare. If someone has a CQC6 with a halfmoon Emerson logo it will sell upwards of 700/1000 more that a dated specwar logo because of the rarity of it. To hardcore collectors the little differences make a distinct dileniation line in what someone will pay.
Not to offend anyone but this is my opinion from buying selling them for the past 4 years or so.
 
I believe another way to describe this matter is that you can't buy a halfmoon Emerson CQC6 from Ernie anymore. If you want that knife, you have no choice but to go to the secondary market. Its just not possible to get in line (or be in line) for one like it. And it is a very very different knife than the CQC6s made in 2001. It is not tiny little differences or nuances, it is the knife itself. Same is true for any of the custom knives he makes now, with the possible exception of the ES1. So, whether as a collector or user, you're chasing after a very small group of knives, none of which are available from the maker. I can't buy another red dial Rolex SeaDweller from Rolex anymore, either. Can't get an air cooled 911 from Porsche anymore, no matter how long I wait. But it is legitimate to want these things and maybe pay someone a premium to get one. Thats why his older customs cost so much. The newer ones?
 
Hi Ed,

Thank you for reminding me of the Titanium blade...how could I forget!

Dick,

No offense is taken. You are 100% right to set your buying criteria the way you want. As this works for you. However, let me give you some information about my "pricing" you may not know. I get no knives directly from Emerson..ZER0.

Consequently, like you I am at the mercy of those who do. Like you it is my choice as to whether I pay the premium.

Many of my clients are outsid the US. Consequently, travelling to the US to a show Emerson will be at for a chance (no guarantee) of getting a knife. It may cost a $1,000 or more to come in to the US for the show, not to mention the time getting here and back to the country of origin.

This is balanced against the fact that give or take a couple hundred dollars their knives purchased in the aftermarket (having spent the money to get to the show). Also, you are guaranteed to get the exact knife you want.

This is even more important if the knife the collector wants has an older logo on it. As this older logo is no longer available directly from Emerson. So even if yours is the first name to be drawn on Friday at 2PM. You cannot get this knife.

Also, many hard core collectors of anything usually know exactly what they are looking for. They also can take into account the rareity and future potential of that piece given population reports on particular styles and models.

On the surface the collectable appears to be meerly a captial asset to most. However, collectables can be influenced by both the tangible and intangible physical assests of the object. These of course directly effect the equilibrium valuation (pricing which involves supply and demand). This in turn effects the accounting versus the economic balance sheets (book value vs market value).

Additionally, the "beta's" also known as the coefficient that measures the relative volatitly of a collectable as it relates to current market. All of these will impact in subtle and not so subtle ways the value of a particular collectable. As such beta values must be addressed to insure proper valuation. While it may not be the best practice. Human beings, such as they are...always looking for a hedge. Will peek around the corner and try to include risk factors, ROI and Portfolio Balance, while trying to come up with a "true" valuation.

Yes I actually do apply these principles to which custom knives I buy. Hey, I had to do something with my MBA. :)

Dick, as Scott and Seth pointed out to many collectors the "logo" or difference's in construction (tangible and intangible physical assets)do have a impact on the desireablity of particular Emerson's.

Just remember me when it comes time to sell your Emerson's. as Im sure you would be happy with retail price and not charge a premium!
:D
 
Well, Les, I hope you (and anyone else reading these posts) didn't think I was harping on you. Not at all! I'm just trying to come to grips with the prices for these knives, because I want 'em - and it's frustrating to know I'll probably never get 'em, just because I can't bring myself to spend that much on a knife. Unless I hit the lottery, that is. :D

Supply & demand are definately running strong with Ernie's work, and you guys who own it are lucky. Hopefully one day I'll get lucky too - at a show somewhere... unless Hollister trips me as we both rush Ernie's table. He plays dirty like that. :D
 
Les, thanks for your eloquent reply. My wife has an MBA and I just walk the other way when she starts talking MBAese. I am a fairly conservative invester also. As you may have noticed nothing that I purchase has ever been for sale. We(my wife and I) buy what we like and do not think about what these items will be worth in the long run, they simply give us pleasure. We have decoy carvings from one of the best in the country where collectors gauge value by serial number. I simply only know what we paid for them and not current value. I will pay a premium for a firearm that is no longer produced and is NIB! I learned long a go that junk is junk and does not appreciate in your mind as time goes on. You are in a business and do a good job and are very knowledgable. I purchase directly from the makers and rarely have purchased on the aftermarket and then only a few limited editions that were only offered through dealers. Maybe some day we can do business. Dick
 
Les, I have thought a little on your reply and offer the following. In trying to predict the future value or valuation an item at the present time using formulas derived using statistics, don't believe that the results you obtain are accurate. It's a little like quantum mechanics( one of my field's by the way, I am a Nuclear Engineer by degrees) In Quantum Mechanics, you canot predict the time, frequency, or the results of any specific event. What you can predict in Quantum Mechanics is the average result based on a large number of events. A few years ago, a group of statistical experts convinced themselves that they could analyze the markets and predict future value. They had a multi billion dollar fund set up that eventually went bust because you cannot treat the marketplace or valuations as you can physical behavior due to the laws of physics. The statistics may work for a while but the unpredictablity of what will happen in the world and how that will affect the perception of valuation are not predictable. In any event , I did enjoy your post and the oppotunity to reflect! - Dick.
 
Bud,

Actually, the group you are talking about made all of it's intial investors multi-millionaires. I belive they won or were at least in contention for a Nobel Prize in Economics. Their statistics and logic were sound and produced a very workable model. Their problem occured, where it does for most successful business when they tried to enter "line extention" into their original model.

In other words they got greedy and sent their original model ascew.

Sadly for many of these original investors, today they are only worth several hundred million dollars instead of being billionaires.

The act of buying is usually based on need. However, for those who have the disposable income, time and interest to develop and expand their interest in a hobby. They can have a huge influence on what is the "next" big thing in that hobby.

It is the professionals job to find out who these influential people are. Then to take it one step further and get on their "roledex". In the book "The Anatomy of Buzz" by Emanuel Rosen. He discuss's the five types of "network hubs". One of the hubs he discuss's is the "expert network". As he says "these expert hubs can make or break a product introduction.

If you truly want to know what will sell, when it will sell and how much it will sell for. Attain the knowledge that will allow you to be part of one of the many expert hubs in custom knives. In custom knives more times than not the level of your success is in direct correlation to being viewed as one of those in a particular expert hub.

Once you have attained that position, you have removed any relation to quantum mechanics and statics have only a minor role, general found in the JIT (just in time) technique of Inventory Control.

Dick you are correct, your scholastic background gives you little if any insight into a collectible market. All business is very fluid, the business of collecting is even more fluid. Popular Makers, Dealers, Styles and Materials come and go...all the time. This is due directly to their ability to stay fluid. They lack the ability to adapt and stay competitive. Most because of their "comfort zone" trick themselves into beliving that it is not them.

As the saying goes, the only constant is change. It is the ability to manage that change that determines success.
 
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