Emerson Knives

RKH

Joined
Oct 29, 2005
Messages
799
Not trying to start a fight but I would like your opinion on Emerson knives. I have ordered the A100 and it should be here Thursday. This model reminds of Emerson's early Bumblebee model. I have owned some Emerson folders in the past and they had good ergonomics but I had problems with the chisel grind. Seem to work best if you are left handed. I also noticed some problems with their liner locks on the forums. Thanks.
RKH
 
Its not just Emerson liner locks but you hear more reports of the EKIs. This could easily be attributed to the fact that a lot of EKI owners use them harder than others but I don't know about that personally. Most makers and production companies build them such that very little lock engages when they are first opened up new out of the box so the life of the lock is longer before it needs adjustment from crossing all the way across the contact area. So the lock can be precarious if it isn't tested to be sure where you stand. (see my tips and tricks sticky thread)

Otherwise they are on par with other thinner liner locks on the market. I've seen the little knife you speak of just recently and its about the right size for EDC. Once broke in it should be a fine folder. The one here was a bit gritty and grainy feeling to open but I've found this is typical of many EKI folders until they smooth out. I too am no fan of the chisel grind and usually reprofie my primary V grind Emerson folders on the sharpened bevel also so I can sharpen it on the Edge Pro even if it does void the warranty. I have zero use for the chisel except for wood working.

Most of what you need to know is already posted in my tips and tricks second post. Thanks for asking RKH

STR
 
Thanks STR. I may have to change the edge to a conventional bevel instead of a chisel ground. The chisel ground might work for a left handed person but I have not liked it. In fact, I thought the A100 might be double ground.
RKH
 
STR, I got the A100 Thursday and I like the knife but it has the chisel ground edge. Why ? I can't see any advantage to this edge as ground. The knife is well made with a strong ball detente and the knife has a good feel in the hand as are most Emerson knives but the chisel edge just about ruins it for me. Emerson touts this as a better edge. For what ? Combat ? AS an all around knife edge I don't see it. I would appreciate any insight you might offer. Thanks.
RKH
 
Well my friend, I must be honest. I never got it either, not at first. The one side grind, the one side edge bevel, or the reasoning behind it were all surprising to me. The few times I have tried to converse with Ernie about it I never got a reply. He is too busy to answer I guess.

He wrote a little about it on his web site. I read it. I disagree with a lot of it for a folder in the hands of most civilian end line users but some have learned to use them quite well for some jobs like breaking down boxes, and other things. The philosophy behind it in conjunction with a liner lock folder and sold to the general public were also confusing at first because the knife is so geared toward the military. Ironically its this "Military" label that is so appealing to many I think. I personally have no use whatsoever for a chisel ground anything other than a wood working tool you tap with a hammer. I might feel differently if I were in the Army, Special Forces, or stationed in Iraq though. Let me explain.

Ernie has it in his mind that its easier to maintain in the field, easier to sharpen, makes it stronger and so it slices better and so on.

So, lets break it down.

Is it easier to sharpen in the field?

Answer: Highly debatable. I personally have never had any trouble sharpening my conventional knives in the field. I've sharpend with a sand stone river rock successfully this way. You can do it with his as well, logically in his mind its easier since its only one side but that is not quite true though is it? You have to flip it to knock off the burr from the flat side which can at times be just as hard as sharpening both sides by itself.

Does this make it stronger?

Technically speaking yes and no. If you were to break the blade and view it looking at the cross sectional mass of the blade thickness right down the middle of the length of the blade on any chisel ground blade with one flat side you would see that indeed the blade is thicker in the middle. So technically speaking it going to be stronger for prying and this kind of thing. So Ernie is correct when he says the blade is stronger. What about the edge?

Ok, looking at the edge we can see that the edge portion of the blade is thinner and this can make it weaker at the edge in this grind type. So that is why I say, yes and no.

Does it slice better? Again, yes it slices better if easier is what you need with no control of direction or neatness of the cut because obviously its thin and will penetrate quick and effectively for things like straps, para cord, ropes and self defense where a quick effective cut deep is needed but only where there is no worry about control of the direction or a neat cut is a concern. Try for example just to cut a piece of paper in a straight line with a conventional grind blade and a chisel grind one and see what happens. The chisel goes off line is hard to control and simply doesn't cut neatly but it does slice well and effectively.

I am sure that from Ernie's perspective since most of his knives are all made this way with a chisel edge and a lot ground with a true primary chisel grind since they are all geared toward CQC (close quarters combat) and not controlled cutting because the chisel is the type edge that is the most effective edge for what they are made for doing in Ernie's mind. I hope that comes across as I intend.

The problem arises when someone sees his knives, likes what they see about both the knife and the legend as well as the man that is bigger than both and buys it without understanding or comprehending the why behind them or the edge type. What typically happens is the knife arrives and they find that their typical uses for any knife they carry do not jive with the edge type he uses because if you are the type that is used to a whittler, a utility user everyday carry that can be used for the Sharpmaker, the Edge Pro, the Lansky or other sharpeners without special set up to make it work for that edge type then it is like pounding a square dowel in a round hole to them.

You have to re learn everything to equip yourself to take care of this one now. This is no problem for the EKI fanatic that buys and supports his knives a lot. For others it is no problem if they are the typical knife nut that sees and trades a lot of various knives familar with all but at one time in the past they hurtled this obstacle and decided they either liked it and could work with it or they didn't and sold or traded it. Its a love it or hate it issue with this blade type and it either fits your needs or it doesn't. I see a few middle guys that can take it or leave it but you can't judge Emerson knives or his edge type by the guys on forums. Most of them are knife nuts. The typical end line user is confused by the Edge when the knife arrives and they find it only has a grind on one side. By the way changing the edge to a true V edge like you are used to voids the warranty.

STR
 
Last edited:
Ok, I edited it a bit above, but in my defense I am trying to do this and watch Californication on DVD at the same time. We bought the first season and I don't have Showtime so its all new to me. What can I say? Its hard to think about knives right now. :eek:

:D

I'll be back after episode two is over. :D

STR
 
By the way changing the edge to a true V edge like you are used to voids the warranty.

STR


Do you have experience with that?
It's not mentioned on Emersons warranty page...

About the chisel edge.. I never got it either..
But they are wicked slicers, especially when the edge is flattened out to almost zero.. Their heat treat of 154CM is only rivalled by Microtech imho. It keeps it's edge a looong time..
be carefull not put too much lateral stress on the edge tho

emrsonnu.jpg
 
Actually I believe it is mentioned somewhere either on the web or the paperwork regarding modification. Someone posted it in the Emerson forum a while back and based on who it was I took it to be truthful. It makes sense. Modification is cause for voiding the warranty and changing the edge is certainly modification.
STR
 
It would be silly to void the warranty for that

..but then again, the warranty conditions of some other manufacturers are much worse..
 
I agree with your points Steve about understanding why certain details are the way they are on Emerson knives. They're not really geared for the first-time knife owner/buyer, but as you mention a lot of those folks can be drawn to Emersons because of the aura, so to speak, that surrounds them. I know I was like that when I had just gotten into knives, but I had the benefit of someone with more knowledge and experience who was kind enough out the pros and cons of knife X vs. knife Y vs. knife Z as it related to my expected every day use at that time. Subsequently, I went with other, more conventional options until my own base of knowledge developed further.

On the subject of Californication: I liked the first season and, yes, it can be rather distracting if you are trying to do something else at the same time. Handling or cycling a knife, for example, could be dangerous. :)
 
I thank all of you for your responses to my questions about Emerson knives and the chisel edge. I don't think it is for me. I found the chisel edge as found on Emerson to not work very well. I believe a lot of hype and mystique or "aura" is attached to these type of knives. Perhaps, in purely combat scenario it would work fine. I have owned a Commander (blade did not fully close tip of point exposed liner moved all the way across tang quickly, A raven, cqc7a and and mini Commander and CQC7. I never could get the chisel edge to work for me. Seem to hang or catch when cutting. Most of my use is utiltarian and not combat. I am not here to be critical of Emerson knives but just find some answers.
RKH
 
Yes. I've often said privately to folks that drop by that Emerson knives and the handyman do not go together well, which is why I rarely carry one unless I just want a "Wave toy" for a little while.

On another note I do have some friends that actually like them a lot better and use them for doing this kind of thing but each and everyone of them has redone the edge on their knife to be a true V edge they are used to before it was ever adequate in their uses.


STR
 
STR, I think there is a real exciting appeal to Emerson Knives and also the Hard Use Thing. I have seen a lot of comments on Emerson knives lock problems on the forums and I think people take the Hard Use thing to the exteme and accelerate the wear on the lock. I have found that a lot of Emerson knives liner go all the way across the tang rather quickly and even are hard to unlock if flipped open quickly. BTW, most of my knife purchases lately have been Kershaw and they are doing good work on their liner locks.
RKH
 
Hello STR and Everybody Else,
I'd like to enter the conversation about emerson knives; I just got one a few months ago and am getting used to it. The cqc-12 was the first for me; I've gotten used to sharpening the chisel edge just like it says to do on the website. I start off w/ a round dmt diamond rod and finish the edge off w/ a medium sharpmaker trianglar rod. Works pretty good, and I can shave arm hair off when done. I still prefer a standard V grind, however. When cutting up veggies, for instance, w/ the emerson the blade still tends to slip away if not careful.

Steve, not to get off topic, but you're the man whose seen a lot of emersons and rebuilt the locks on quite a few. WTF is up w/ this lock? The engagement area is minimal; the engagement is only at the top. What do you think? Doesn't it seem like this lock would wear out very quickly, or is this how framelocks are built?



Thanks for looking,
bob7
 
Kershaw is very consistant for the contact angle unlike some other brands I see. When Kershaw has had some issues its usually around not enough spring in the lock to make it effectively go into the contact as it should. At least that is what I have seen in the few I have brought to their attention. Kershaw and the people inside are young, top shelf people that have all the right ingredients for a company to just get better and better over time. Compared to some other companies they have not even begun to peak yet IMO. I look forward to a lot of years of growth and maturity from this company as the people working inside that make up the company learn and grow in this industry. They are the company to watch in my opinion and at this writing.

Ernie has a mystic about him. No question about it. All you have to do is see one of his drawing and its easy to get sucked into it. His fan base is huge. (huge enough to start their own forum which they did) and he is also a true gentleman to meet. I have some very good friends that have had the pleasure and it is something they really said was one on one. He gives them his individed attention one at a time as they address him. He is a genius when it comes to marketing and his handle designs are often copied but never quite duplicated. The CQC14 handle is one of my favorites personally that he has ever designed. It fits my hand like it was meant just for me.

STR
 
Back
Top