Please, no comments, if anyone who has ordered an Emerson custom in the last five years, please post-when you ordered, and when you received the knife. This is a custom knife forum. This concerns a custom knife and a custom knife marker. The facts and only the facts, please.
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Emerson
- Thread starter JP
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Les Robertson
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JP,
Do you want me to just close the thread now, or do you want your heart broken. I am amazed at the amount of intelligent, trusting, custom knife buyers who have not broke the "code" yet.
Im sure you saw on KnifeForums in the Emerson room, that someone who has waited 3 1/2 years, was recently told, it would be another 3 1/2 years. Lets do some math here, that would be 7 years!
JP, do yourself a favor, demand your deposit back and buy yourself a better knife. A Lightfoot 458.
Les
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Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
Do you want me to just close the thread now, or do you want your heart broken. I am amazed at the amount of intelligent, trusting, custom knife buyers who have not broke the "code" yet.
Im sure you saw on KnifeForums in the Emerson room, that someone who has waited 3 1/2 years, was recently told, it would be another 3 1/2 years. Lets do some math here, that would be 7 years!
JP, do yourself a favor, demand your deposit back and buy yourself a better knife. A Lightfoot 458.
Les
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Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
- Joined
- Oct 6, 1998
- Messages
- 159
I have yet to hear of a person who has placed an order for a custom and actually had it arrive, ever. The only ones I've owned or seen were ones that were bought at a knife show from him on-site.
--Doug
--Doug
That is a little bit of touchy subject with me as well. While I don't have any money at stake with this maker, it does seem questionable to have customers who are waiting in excess of 3 years for their knives when that same maker goes to a blade show and sells those knives. At least at the BLADE show there was a lottery of sort (or so I hear) for the few handmade knives he had since supply and demand were way out of balance.
What's your thoughts about a maker selling at shows while not filling customers orders in a timely manner?
Thanks,
Sid
What's your thoughts about a maker selling at shows while not filling customers orders in a timely manner?
Thanks,
Sid
I saw a couple of Emerson's folders at a show that a dealer was selling.I don't remember the models,but I wasn't all that impressed with them. They did not have the smooth action and tight lock-up that I expected they would. Fit was a little off, but finish was very nice.
I wonder why it is that if so many people are having problems with his delivery times, or no delivery at all, that the people of these forums DO NOT buy from him. I think that after a while his sales would drop, which in turn hurts his bank account.
Knives 99 lists at least 1000 makers. I am quite sure out of all those makers listed there are MANY (both established and up and coming) who produce excellent work and probably at less cost than Emerson.
Think about it.....It's your hard earned dollars that are paying for that custom knife you always wanted.
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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
I wonder why it is that if so many people are having problems with his delivery times, or no delivery at all, that the people of these forums DO NOT buy from him. I think that after a while his sales would drop, which in turn hurts his bank account.
Knives 99 lists at least 1000 makers. I am quite sure out of all those makers listed there are MANY (both established and up and coming) who produce excellent work and probably at less cost than Emerson.
Think about it.....It's your hard earned dollars that are paying for that custom knife you always wanted.
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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
I ordered an knife from Emerson in December 95 and my invoice number is in the mid 700's. My quoted delivery date has come and past.
I have traded emails with people who have waited over five years with no word as to a revised delivery date.
I don't hold much hope for ever seeing the knife I ordered and refuse to buy any of his products, custom or production. I would change my mind if he delivers the knife or would at least send a letter to those on his waiting list explaining the delay and what he intends to do about the back log.
I think that is the least people should get for thier $25.00 deposit.
I have traded emails with people who have waited over five years with no word as to a revised delivery date.
I don't hold much hope for ever seeing the knife I ordered and refuse to buy any of his products, custom or production. I would change my mind if he delivers the knife or would at least send a letter to those on his waiting list explaining the delay and what he intends to do about the back log.
I think that is the least people should get for thier $25.00 deposit.
Les Robertson
BANNED
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- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
To all customers who have a knife on order with Ernie Emerson. Below is an exerpt from a letter I received from Emerson's attorney dated November 26th 1997.
"We understand that you have falsely advised members of the consuming public, as well as others within the knife industry, among other mistatements, that Mr. Emerson lacks the capability to timely complete orders,"
Emerson was threating legal action against me for telling the truth.
My attorney, who by the way paid in full for an Emerson knife well over 4 years ago has not received his knife. Wrote a response to Emerson's attornies on December 18th 1997. To date I have had no further contact with Emerson or his attornies.
For those of you who want action taken on your order you need to complain to AL Pendray the President of the Knifemakers Guild. See my topic, Get your Emerson knife maybe. It spells out exaclty what needs to be done.
If you do not hold Emerson to his word, you will never see your knives. It is obvious he only cares about himself.
For those of you who continue to order custom knives from him. Please contact me off line as I have some beach front property in Arizona I would like to discuss with you.
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Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
"We understand that you have falsely advised members of the consuming public, as well as others within the knife industry, among other mistatements, that Mr. Emerson lacks the capability to timely complete orders,"
Emerson was threating legal action against me for telling the truth.
My attorney, who by the way paid in full for an Emerson knife well over 4 years ago has not received his knife. Wrote a response to Emerson's attornies on December 18th 1997. To date I have had no further contact with Emerson or his attornies.
For those of you who want action taken on your order you need to complain to AL Pendray the President of the Knifemakers Guild. See my topic, Get your Emerson knife maybe. It spells out exaclty what needs to be done.
If you do not hold Emerson to his word, you will never see your knives. It is obvious he only cares about himself.
For those of you who continue to order custom knives from him. Please contact me off line as I have some beach front property in Arizona I would like to discuss with you.
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Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
AHH!!
People are finally starting to see that there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I do have a question though....Has anyone ever approached him at a show and confronted him about this situation ?
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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
People are finally starting to see that there is no light at the end of the tunnel.
I do have a question though....Has anyone ever approached him at a show and confronted him about this situation ?
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C.O.'s-"It takes balls to work behind the walls "
Its this type of information that keeps me always coming back to the forums. Where else could we all receive this kind of info? I know now that I wont order one untill I hear some better news than this. Great that we can all help each other out. If and when y'all get your knives let us know if it was worth the wait!
~Keith~
~Keith~
JP, I ordered one of Emerson's custom folders, with mother-of-pearl scales, anodized frame, approximately five years ago, paid full price for it, and received it in a couple of months. This was just before he began his collaboration with Benchmade, when he was making many beautiful custom folders, what we now know as gents' folders. When Ernie began making his tactical folders, before most of you guys knew what a tactical knife was, he slowly backed out of the custom market, because working full-time and making custom knives part-time was a bitch. Now he is running a shop with 30 full-time employees and producing a lot of factory models, and they're shipping daily. I know, I've been there, and I've seen what's going on. Even I can't get one of his custom folders, even though I am sure he makes one now and then. If anyone knocks Emerson, or any other maker, I suggest you remember there are two sides to every story.
Les Robertson
BANNED
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- Oct 10, 1998
- Messages
- 3,565
Bud,
I am kind of surprised to see your last post.
First, let me state, that I knew what a tactical knife was long before Emerson did. Perhaps it was the fact that I was humping a ruck all over the world as a Infantry Officer in the 101st Ariborne.
Second, he quit his full time job at several years ago, so he could make custom knives full time. I dont think developing a line of factory knives was on his mind when he quit his job.
The main problem with Emerson is that he has not been honest with his customers. For the last several years he has continued to take deposits and quote people delivery times that are not accurate.
It is his prerogative to make or not make knives. However, once he accepts money and quotes delivery dates that he knows he can never meet. This is tantamount to fraud.
Bud, I challange you to find a non-law enforcement/military person who has gotten a knife they have ordered from Emerson in the last 4 years. Note that 4 years ago Emerson was quoting 18-24 months. As you stated, even you cant get a knife from him!
In a article in Blade Magazine that came out in November 1997. Emerson was quoted as saying he has over 3000 orders. At the time he was quoting two year delivery time. Bud, we both know that no custom knife maker can produce that many folders in two years.
Here are some numbers to be considered:
365 days X 2= 730 days
3,000 knives divided by 730 days= 4.1 knives per day.
We will assume that he can make a knife in 4 hours. Which is difficult to do.
That means in order to have met his delivers as he was quoted in Blade Magazine, he would have to make knives 16 hours a day for the next 730 days straight.
Bud, as I stated before we both know that this cannot be done.
Perhaps you have not seen the posts over the last year on both this Forum and KnifeForums (in the Emerson Room) asking if anyone has had a knife delivered by Emerson in the last 3 years. To date not one person has responsed to these posts.
So far this year I have personally directed at least 8 people to Al Pendray. Once the letters get to the Guild, Emerson will get to tell his side of the story. I think all of us are waiting to hear the countless excuses that will surely follow.
Bud, as the editor of Knives Illustrated you bring a unique perspective to this forum and we appreciate your posts.
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Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
I am kind of surprised to see your last post.
First, let me state, that I knew what a tactical knife was long before Emerson did. Perhaps it was the fact that I was humping a ruck all over the world as a Infantry Officer in the 101st Ariborne.
Second, he quit his full time job at several years ago, so he could make custom knives full time. I dont think developing a line of factory knives was on his mind when he quit his job.
The main problem with Emerson is that he has not been honest with his customers. For the last several years he has continued to take deposits and quote people delivery times that are not accurate.
It is his prerogative to make or not make knives. However, once he accepts money and quotes delivery dates that he knows he can never meet. This is tantamount to fraud.
Bud, I challange you to find a non-law enforcement/military person who has gotten a knife they have ordered from Emerson in the last 4 years. Note that 4 years ago Emerson was quoting 18-24 months. As you stated, even you cant get a knife from him!
In a article in Blade Magazine that came out in November 1997. Emerson was quoted as saying he has over 3000 orders. At the time he was quoting two year delivery time. Bud, we both know that no custom knife maker can produce that many folders in two years.
Here are some numbers to be considered:
365 days X 2= 730 days
3,000 knives divided by 730 days= 4.1 knives per day.
We will assume that he can make a knife in 4 hours. Which is difficult to do.
That means in order to have met his delivers as he was quoted in Blade Magazine, he would have to make knives 16 hours a day for the next 730 days straight.
Bud, as I stated before we both know that this cannot be done.
Perhaps you have not seen the posts over the last year on both this Forum and KnifeForums (in the Emerson Room) asking if anyone has had a knife delivered by Emerson in the last 3 years. To date not one person has responsed to these posts.
So far this year I have personally directed at least 8 people to Al Pendray. Once the letters get to the Guild, Emerson will get to tell his side of the story. I think all of us are waiting to hear the countless excuses that will surely follow.
Bud, as the editor of Knives Illustrated you bring a unique perspective to this forum and we appreciate your posts.
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Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
Guys: Aren't we talking here about customers who have ordered CUSTOM Emerson Knives and not received them? If, as Bud states, having been there, and seen that the effort is largely (or completely?) being focused on the factory stuff, are any custom knives being made/delivered at all?
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Let me tell what we're dealing with last week I e-mailed Mr.Emerson telling him I did'nt like his business practices,and that I would like my $25.00 deposit back I also wrote that I will not be purchasing any of his knives factory or custom.Well up to now nothing,he did'nt even bother to reply.
Bud. Individuals ARE placing orders for Emerson customs(some may not be willing to admit having ordered-yes people do continue to place orders for a custom CQC7 or CQC6)-See Emerson website-they are advertised.
If, as you indicate, Mr. Emerson is no longer "focused" on the custom knife market, so be it. However, you are not Mr. Emerson, and cannot speak for Mr. Emerson (and your arrogance is insulting).
This thread is not to elicit opinions, it is more or less, a "survey." This post is not meant to in anyway to disparage Mr. Emerson. His reputation is well known and his talents are known world-wide.
This forum is "visited" by literally thousands of readers each month.
This forum is focused on the consumer. This is a consumer orientated thread. This is a custom forum, this involves a custom knifemaker, and a custom knife. I see no reason this thread should be lock, and I ask that this thread not be locked.
I realize that many advertisers on this forum sell the Emerson production models. It will be interesting to see if this thread "disappears" or if this thread is locked.
[This message has been edited by JP (edited 01 April 1999).]
If, as you indicate, Mr. Emerson is no longer "focused" on the custom knife market, so be it. However, you are not Mr. Emerson, and cannot speak for Mr. Emerson (and your arrogance is insulting).
This thread is not to elicit opinions, it is more or less, a "survey." This post is not meant to in anyway to disparage Mr. Emerson. His reputation is well known and his talents are known world-wide.
This forum is "visited" by literally thousands of readers each month.
This forum is focused on the consumer. This is a consumer orientated thread. This is a custom forum, this involves a custom knifemaker, and a custom knife. I see no reason this thread should be lock, and I ask that this thread not be locked.
I realize that many advertisers on this forum sell the Emerson production models. It will be interesting to see if this thread "disappears" or if this thread is locked.
[This message has been edited by JP (edited 01 April 1999).]
Les Robertson
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 10, 1998
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- 3,565
JP,
First, I think you might have been a little harsh on Bud.
Second, there are only two people who can lock this thread, Mike Turber and myself. I can assure you I will not lock this thread.
I will try and keep it on a professional level though.
You are correct, people continue to order Emerson Custom Knives. You know what they say about a fool and his money.
Bud brought out a very good point, that part of the reason Emerson is so far behind is because of his focus on the factory knives.
However, as this is a recent development, this does not explain the now 5-7 year wait that customers can expet to experience.
JP, as you stated, this forum is meant to inform consumers. I think we do a good job.
The best thing you can do JP is write Al Pendray a formal letter of complaint. As both Bob Terzuola and myself have explained the process the Guild will go through to handle your complaint.
In the mean time, file a complaint with the Orange County, California Better Business Bureau. Also, you can contact the local post office (if the payment was made through the mail) and file a complaint with the postal inspectors. I have heard of some people having good success with them.
Meanwhile, tell everyone you know not to suppor Emerson. Dont buy his knives, custom or otherwise. There are other knives far superior to the CQC series now.
Write Formal Complaints, inform the public in a responsible manner and vote with your money.
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Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
First, I think you might have been a little harsh on Bud.
Second, there are only two people who can lock this thread, Mike Turber and myself. I can assure you I will not lock this thread.
I will try and keep it on a professional level though.
You are correct, people continue to order Emerson Custom Knives. You know what they say about a fool and his money.
Bud brought out a very good point, that part of the reason Emerson is so far behind is because of his focus on the factory knives.
However, as this is a recent development, this does not explain the now 5-7 year wait that customers can expet to experience.
JP, as you stated, this forum is meant to inform consumers. I think we do a good job.
The best thing you can do JP is write Al Pendray a formal letter of complaint. As both Bob Terzuola and myself have explained the process the Guild will go through to handle your complaint.
In the mean time, file a complaint with the Orange County, California Better Business Bureau. Also, you can contact the local post office (if the payment was made through the mail) and file a complaint with the postal inspectors. I have heard of some people having good success with them.
Meanwhile, tell everyone you know not to suppor Emerson. Dont buy his knives, custom or otherwise. There are other knives far superior to the CQC series now.
Write Formal Complaints, inform the public in a responsible manner and vote with your money.
------------------
Les Robertson
Robertson's Custom Cutlery
http://www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com/rcc/makers.shtml
I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken.
It seems to me that if a maker could not fill an order in a reasonable amount of time that he should feel morally obligated not to accept orders. I would consider two years or less reasonable. A T Barr has stopped accepting orders with a two year wait. I view this as the responsible thing to do. How could you predict your output two years from now knowing how uncertain life can be? Maybe the guild could put a time limit on delivery for promised orders. Either way choose not to buy from makers whom exhibit poor character by decieving their customers.
By the way JP, every time this question has been asked on any of the forums there have never been ANY replies regarding delivery of Emerson customs. Are you beginning to lose faith? Maybe just a little...
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Al
[This message has been edited by Biginboca (edited 01 April 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Biginboca (edited 01 April 1999).]
By the way JP, every time this question has been asked on any of the forums there have never been ANY replies regarding delivery of Emerson customs. Are you beginning to lose faith? Maybe just a little...
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Al
[This message has been edited by Biginboca (edited 01 April 1999).]
[This message has been edited by Biginboca (edited 01 April 1999).]
First of all, what I have to say on this list is personal. I am not speaking for the magazine or my employer. I know many, many custom knife makers all over the world, and I have personally been in hundreds of shops. I have also visited many of the factories, both in the states, in Germany, France and Switzerland. I'm not bragging, just letting you know I care about what I do for a living. Because I work with these people, I know many of them personally, on a friend-to-friend basis you might say. Like I stated yesterday, people should wonder why some people knock anyone else, continually. There's always two sides to every story.
I didn't know the KnifeForums existed until about a month ago. A couple of weeks ago I received a phone call from Spark, introducing me to BladeForums. I don't live in the dark ages, I just work and travel a lot, and only have so much time to spend on the net. After speaking to Spark, I subscribed and have offered a few comments and help here and there the past couple of weeks.
Les, you state you are surprised to see me here. I don't know why. JP, you state you find me arrogant. Why? Because I stated Emerson was running a decent-sized production facility and was doing too much in the custom field? RJ Martin, you asked "Are any custom knives being made/delivered?"
Well, I drove over to Ernie's (we are friends, so we're on a first name basis) business today and visited for a spell. He took me through the shop and showed me some of their new equipment, etc. Then we walked across the drive to another shop he just rented. Inside I discovered his grinder and some other equipment he had just moved in there, stuff that came from his home shop. He had a number of boxes on the floor, sull of blades, handle material, etc. He informed me that during his 12-14 hour days, he is beginning to dedicate about 4-5 hours a day to producing his custom line again, knives he hasn't had a chance to work on as much as he has wanted to. Now, I am not speaking for Ernie, so don't quote me. I am just relating what I recall from a visit about six hours ago. When these first knives will be completed, I don't know, but he's working on them.
If any of you guys want to get on my case, so be it. That's your perogative. Have fun.
I didn't know the KnifeForums existed until about a month ago. A couple of weeks ago I received a phone call from Spark, introducing me to BladeForums. I don't live in the dark ages, I just work and travel a lot, and only have so much time to spend on the net. After speaking to Spark, I subscribed and have offered a few comments and help here and there the past couple of weeks.
Les, you state you are surprised to see me here. I don't know why. JP, you state you find me arrogant. Why? Because I stated Emerson was running a decent-sized production facility and was doing too much in the custom field? RJ Martin, you asked "Are any custom knives being made/delivered?"
Well, I drove over to Ernie's (we are friends, so we're on a first name basis) business today and visited for a spell. He took me through the shop and showed me some of their new equipment, etc. Then we walked across the drive to another shop he just rented. Inside I discovered his grinder and some other equipment he had just moved in there, stuff that came from his home shop. He had a number of boxes on the floor, sull of blades, handle material, etc. He informed me that during his 12-14 hour days, he is beginning to dedicate about 4-5 hours a day to producing his custom line again, knives he hasn't had a chance to work on as much as he has wanted to. Now, I am not speaking for Ernie, so don't quote me. I am just relating what I recall from a visit about six hours ago. When these first knives will be completed, I don't know, but he's working on them.
If any of you guys want to get on my case, so be it. That's your perogative. Have fun.
JP, I meant Ernie was NOT doing too much in the custom field. Had to clarify this so I wouldn't get jumped on again.
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