Greetings All!
Several weeks ago, a fellow forumite E-mailed me after reading my review of the Ontario Bagwell Hell's Belle Bowie and offered to send me his Ernest Mayer Black Cloud Fourth Generation Fighting Bowie(FB4) in A-2 steel to evaluate, just to see how it would stack up. Ever ready to lend a hand
, I naturally accepted.
Once the blade arrived, I put it through my usual battery of tests. The FB4 performed very well in several tests, but suffered significant rolling and chipping of its edge against both the De Cuerda(hanging rattan pole) and the Leg of Lamb.
I advised the owner of my results, and he informed me that his particular FB4 was one of the first made when Ernie was just starting his shop. The owner was certain that at that time, Ernie was still sending knives out for heat treatment, rather than treating them himself. If this was so, then I felt that it would be extremely interesting- as well as fair- to compare how well an A-2 FB4 that was heat treated by Ernie did against my dense targets.
After some searching and a little help from friends, I was able to get in touch with Ernie Mayer. I explained what had happened and what I wanted to do. Ernie confirmed that the FB4 that I had tested was an early one that was not heat treated by his proprietary process. He readily agreed to send me the latest A-2 FB4- heat treated in house- for testing and review.
I have to tell you all that Ernie has been very open and forthcoming through all of this, eager to get my results and use them to improve the performance of his blades. As he puts it, "Good enough is just not good enough." He encouraged me to test the knife hard and review it honestly, come what may. So here goes...
First, a picture. Please go here:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=184238&a=1805706&p=20895817
She's a beauty isn't she?! Terrific lines. The false edge or swedge is fully sharpened. Notice also the clever integral double guard and the distinctive Mayer handle with its dorsal thumb hump to facilitate a secure saber grip, and the downward curve to the handle from guard to pommel(which flares out dramatically laterally). These two details function to prevent the knife hand from slipping off the back of the handle during high speed maneuvers such as backcut flows.
The Stats:
Steel- A-2, 1/4" stock, proprietarily heat treated to a uniform 60-61 Rc. Cryogenically stress-relieved.
OAL- 17".
Weight- 17 oz..
Blade Length- 10" to the ricasso. Flat ground with a saber ground false edge. Primary edge- 9 1/2". Secondary edge- 4 7/8". Edges are of the secondary bevel type at approx. 25 deg..
Point of Balance- At the guard.
Handle- Full tang with contoured walnut scales; SS allen head screws; lanyard hole.
On to the Testing
...Oh, please note that other than where indicated below, both FB4s performed identically.
Feel and Maneuverability:
The FB4, despite its 17 oz. wt., is very well balanced, making it feel quite fast in the hand. The handle shape with its dorsal thumb hump and flared out pommel is comfortable and secure in both hammer and saber grips through all high speed maneuvers, including backcut flows. The knife also reverses to icepick grip easily.
Impact Resistance:
Edge of Desk Impact Test- I struck the flat- including just the tip- of the blade very hard several times against the edge of an oak desk. There were no signs of stress whatsoever. The blade has a nice tight springiness to it.
The De Cuerda Test- This is the test where the edge of the first FB4 I tested rolled and chipped badly. The second FB4 had no such problems. It performed fantastically against the rattan.
I executed full speed, full power witiks, snap cuts, backcuts, stops and parries with the primary and secondary edges, as well as the flat and spine of the blade. The FB4 sustained no rolled edges, no chips, no scratches, nothing. Plus, I felt no stress to the blade at all during this test. The The FB4 moved very quickly in the hand against the de Cuerda, changing directions easily and was a pleasure to use against it. The shape of the handle makes it easy to index the primary and secondary edges at all times. The blade bit into the rattan very well- many knives just bounce off. An excellent result
.
The Training Dummy Test- Knives often have serious problems with my training dummy's thick duct tape "skin" during full speed attacks, bouncing or sliding off it rather than cutting through it. The Black Cloud FB4, on the other hand, performed fantastically against the dummy- beautiful, clean cuts with either the primary or secondary edge deep through the dummy's skin and dense foam "flesh" down to its wooden core. Witiks, backcuts, slashes, and thrusts all penetrated extremely well. The FB4 cut into the Dummy as well as any knife I've tried against it. Very impressive! And no damage to the tip whatsoever from repeated full power thrusts. My hand did slip forward a little on the handle on hard thrusting, but was stopped by the guard.
Cutting Tests:
Hanging single sheet of paper- clean cuts, perfectly straight, transecting the paper at any angle.
Hanging sheet of 1/4" cardboard- Again, the FB4 cut cleanly the entire length of its primary or secondary edges- nice straight cuts. Accuracy is excellent during thrusts as well. I can hit within a 1/4" of Sharpee dots on a spinning sheet of cardboard.
Hanging roll of exam room paper- The FB4 cut through the dense paper roll and sometimes its cardboard core down to the rattan pole beneath, especially with backcuts- which, as with other classic bowies I've tested, were particularly effective. Thrusts were awesome as well, with no damage to the tip. Absolutely terrific cutting.
The Leg of Lamb Cutting Test- The leg of lamb I used was very large and mature, shall we say, measuring 18" long by 8" wide by 5" thick. It still had 1/2 the sternum and some ribs at the top. The femur bone was quite thick, measuring 1" in dia. at the distal end and almost 3" at the proximal(hip) end, with fully a 1/4" thick rim of dense cortical bone around its edge.
The femur lay under 1" of fascia and muscle at the hip, then quickly centering itself in the thigh as it traversed downward toward the knee.
I first took a #3 forehand horizontal slash through the lower third of the shank. The FB4 cut cleanly through 2" of muscle and fascia and through the 1" dia femur and stopped there. It did not continue to cut through and out the other side. This result was reproducible.
Next, I took a #1 forehand diagonal slash through the thickest section of the shank. The FB4 cut cleanly and with very little resistance through 5" of flesh and bone and 1/3 way through the femur- about 1" in.
Next, I came in from the bony side of the thigh just below the hip joint with another #1 slash. The FB4 cut the 1" of fascia and muscle and again through 1" of the femur, stopping there.
These results were reproduced several times.
For those of you who may think these results disappointing, let me assure you that they are actually very good. This was a very hard femur bone for a leg of lamb. It reacted much more like a beef bone. Even my Hossom Bowie- which I use as a benchmark in all my Leg of Lamb Tests, and which had easily transected every leg of lamb to this point- was itself only able to cut completely through the entire 2 3/4" of bone on this leg of lamb(coming in from either the meaty or the bony side of the thickest part of the thigh) and only a little further into the muscle on the other side, but not completely transecting the thigh as usual.
Next, I threw several #1(vertical) and # 2 and #3(horizontal) backcuts into the thickest section of the thigh. The backcut wounds were awesome, extending the full 5" of the sharpened swag and even cutting into the femur about 1/2" consistently. Once again, these bowie backcuts are amazingly devastating.
Finally, I threw several thrusts into the leg of lamb, and the FB4 thrust easily to its hilt. I purposefully hit the bone a couple of times and the tip did not bend or suffer any damage whatsoever.
After all this cutting, the primary edge had rolled slightly in a couple of places...several swipes with my DMT diamond hone got it looking like new again. The secondary edge remained perfect throughout. So, clearly, Ernie's proprietary heat treatment acquitted itself extremely well against a very tough leg of lamb.
Conclusions:
Ernie Mayer and Black Cloud have created a terrific performing bowie here. It feels great in the hand, moves beautifully, cuts very well, and stands up to impact well.
The Negatives:
The handle slipped some in my hand during hard thrusts in hammer grip, but the guard protects the fingers from sliding onto the blade. This problem does not occur in saber grip with the thumb butted up against the thumb ramp of the upper guard. Many bowie players prefer saber grip, so this is not really a problem.
The edge of the second FB4, although it withstood impact much better than did the edge of the first FB4 I tested, did still roll some against the lamb's femur(while the Hossom's and the Rinaldi's did not). Clearly, Black Cloud's proprietary heat treatment can still be improved upon somewhat. Ernie tells me that he will go back and review the entire heat treating process to ensure better quality control. He intends to send me other blades to test once this is done to make sure that they pass the De Cuerda and Leg of Lamb Tests with perfect scores.
Bottom line? I really liked the FB4's clever design and execution. It is an excellent true bowie with full double guard and sharpened swag. It was a pleasure to use against all targets and cut very well with both primary and secondary edges. It backcuts like a demon. Clearly, Ernie Mayer learned his lessons well at Jim Keating's Riddle of Steel in order to produce a bowie like this
. Bravo!
Mario
------------------
Gaucho
Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 05-09-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 05-09-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 05-09-2000).]
Several weeks ago, a fellow forumite E-mailed me after reading my review of the Ontario Bagwell Hell's Belle Bowie and offered to send me his Ernest Mayer Black Cloud Fourth Generation Fighting Bowie(FB4) in A-2 steel to evaluate, just to see how it would stack up. Ever ready to lend a hand
Once the blade arrived, I put it through my usual battery of tests. The FB4 performed very well in several tests, but suffered significant rolling and chipping of its edge against both the De Cuerda(hanging rattan pole) and the Leg of Lamb.
I advised the owner of my results, and he informed me that his particular FB4 was one of the first made when Ernie was just starting his shop. The owner was certain that at that time, Ernie was still sending knives out for heat treatment, rather than treating them himself. If this was so, then I felt that it would be extremely interesting- as well as fair- to compare how well an A-2 FB4 that was heat treated by Ernie did against my dense targets.
After some searching and a little help from friends, I was able to get in touch with Ernie Mayer. I explained what had happened and what I wanted to do. Ernie confirmed that the FB4 that I had tested was an early one that was not heat treated by his proprietary process. He readily agreed to send me the latest A-2 FB4- heat treated in house- for testing and review.
I have to tell you all that Ernie has been very open and forthcoming through all of this, eager to get my results and use them to improve the performance of his blades. As he puts it, "Good enough is just not good enough." He encouraged me to test the knife hard and review it honestly, come what may. So here goes...
First, a picture. Please go here:
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/ViewPhoto?u=184238&a=1805706&p=20895817
She's a beauty isn't she?! Terrific lines. The false edge or swedge is fully sharpened. Notice also the clever integral double guard and the distinctive Mayer handle with its dorsal thumb hump to facilitate a secure saber grip, and the downward curve to the handle from guard to pommel(which flares out dramatically laterally). These two details function to prevent the knife hand from slipping off the back of the handle during high speed maneuvers such as backcut flows.
The Stats:
Steel- A-2, 1/4" stock, proprietarily heat treated to a uniform 60-61 Rc. Cryogenically stress-relieved.
OAL- 17".
Weight- 17 oz..
Blade Length- 10" to the ricasso. Flat ground with a saber ground false edge. Primary edge- 9 1/2". Secondary edge- 4 7/8". Edges are of the secondary bevel type at approx. 25 deg..
Point of Balance- At the guard.
Handle- Full tang with contoured walnut scales; SS allen head screws; lanyard hole.
On to the Testing
Feel and Maneuverability:
The FB4, despite its 17 oz. wt., is very well balanced, making it feel quite fast in the hand. The handle shape with its dorsal thumb hump and flared out pommel is comfortable and secure in both hammer and saber grips through all high speed maneuvers, including backcut flows. The knife also reverses to icepick grip easily.
Impact Resistance:
Edge of Desk Impact Test- I struck the flat- including just the tip- of the blade very hard several times against the edge of an oak desk. There were no signs of stress whatsoever. The blade has a nice tight springiness to it.
The De Cuerda Test- This is the test where the edge of the first FB4 I tested rolled and chipped badly. The second FB4 had no such problems. It performed fantastically against the rattan.
I executed full speed, full power witiks, snap cuts, backcuts, stops and parries with the primary and secondary edges, as well as the flat and spine of the blade. The FB4 sustained no rolled edges, no chips, no scratches, nothing. Plus, I felt no stress to the blade at all during this test. The The FB4 moved very quickly in the hand against the de Cuerda, changing directions easily and was a pleasure to use against it. The shape of the handle makes it easy to index the primary and secondary edges at all times. The blade bit into the rattan very well- many knives just bounce off. An excellent result
The Training Dummy Test- Knives often have serious problems with my training dummy's thick duct tape "skin" during full speed attacks, bouncing or sliding off it rather than cutting through it. The Black Cloud FB4, on the other hand, performed fantastically against the dummy- beautiful, clean cuts with either the primary or secondary edge deep through the dummy's skin and dense foam "flesh" down to its wooden core. Witiks, backcuts, slashes, and thrusts all penetrated extremely well. The FB4 cut into the Dummy as well as any knife I've tried against it. Very impressive! And no damage to the tip whatsoever from repeated full power thrusts. My hand did slip forward a little on the handle on hard thrusting, but was stopped by the guard.
Cutting Tests:
Hanging single sheet of paper- clean cuts, perfectly straight, transecting the paper at any angle.
Hanging sheet of 1/4" cardboard- Again, the FB4 cut cleanly the entire length of its primary or secondary edges- nice straight cuts. Accuracy is excellent during thrusts as well. I can hit within a 1/4" of Sharpee dots on a spinning sheet of cardboard.
Hanging roll of exam room paper- The FB4 cut through the dense paper roll and sometimes its cardboard core down to the rattan pole beneath, especially with backcuts- which, as with other classic bowies I've tested, were particularly effective. Thrusts were awesome as well, with no damage to the tip. Absolutely terrific cutting.
The Leg of Lamb Cutting Test- The leg of lamb I used was very large and mature, shall we say, measuring 18" long by 8" wide by 5" thick. It still had 1/2 the sternum and some ribs at the top. The femur bone was quite thick, measuring 1" in dia. at the distal end and almost 3" at the proximal(hip) end, with fully a 1/4" thick rim of dense cortical bone around its edge.
The femur lay under 1" of fascia and muscle at the hip, then quickly centering itself in the thigh as it traversed downward toward the knee.
I first took a #3 forehand horizontal slash through the lower third of the shank. The FB4 cut cleanly through 2" of muscle and fascia and through the 1" dia femur and stopped there. It did not continue to cut through and out the other side. This result was reproducible.
Next, I took a #1 forehand diagonal slash through the thickest section of the shank. The FB4 cut cleanly and with very little resistance through 5" of flesh and bone and 1/3 way through the femur- about 1" in.
Next, I came in from the bony side of the thigh just below the hip joint with another #1 slash. The FB4 cut the 1" of fascia and muscle and again through 1" of the femur, stopping there.
These results were reproduced several times.
For those of you who may think these results disappointing, let me assure you that they are actually very good. This was a very hard femur bone for a leg of lamb. It reacted much more like a beef bone. Even my Hossom Bowie- which I use as a benchmark in all my Leg of Lamb Tests, and which had easily transected every leg of lamb to this point- was itself only able to cut completely through the entire 2 3/4" of bone on this leg of lamb(coming in from either the meaty or the bony side of the thickest part of the thigh) and only a little further into the muscle on the other side, but not completely transecting the thigh as usual.
Next, I threw several #1(vertical) and # 2 and #3(horizontal) backcuts into the thickest section of the thigh. The backcut wounds were awesome, extending the full 5" of the sharpened swag and even cutting into the femur about 1/2" consistently. Once again, these bowie backcuts are amazingly devastating.
Finally, I threw several thrusts into the leg of lamb, and the FB4 thrust easily to its hilt. I purposefully hit the bone a couple of times and the tip did not bend or suffer any damage whatsoever.
After all this cutting, the primary edge had rolled slightly in a couple of places...several swipes with my DMT diamond hone got it looking like new again. The secondary edge remained perfect throughout. So, clearly, Ernie's proprietary heat treatment acquitted itself extremely well against a very tough leg of lamb.
Conclusions:
Ernie Mayer and Black Cloud have created a terrific performing bowie here. It feels great in the hand, moves beautifully, cuts very well, and stands up to impact well.
The Negatives:
The handle slipped some in my hand during hard thrusts in hammer grip, but the guard protects the fingers from sliding onto the blade. This problem does not occur in saber grip with the thumb butted up against the thumb ramp of the upper guard. Many bowie players prefer saber grip, so this is not really a problem.
The edge of the second FB4, although it withstood impact much better than did the edge of the first FB4 I tested, did still roll some against the lamb's femur(while the Hossom's and the Rinaldi's did not). Clearly, Black Cloud's proprietary heat treatment can still be improved upon somewhat. Ernie tells me that he will go back and review the entire heat treating process to ensure better quality control. He intends to send me other blades to test once this is done to make sure that they pass the De Cuerda and Leg of Lamb Tests with perfect scores.
Bottom line? I really liked the FB4's clever design and execution. It is an excellent true bowie with full double guard and sharpened swag. It was a pleasure to use against all targets and cut very well with both primary and secondary edges. It backcuts like a demon. Clearly, Ernie Mayer learned his lessons well at Jim Keating's Riddle of Steel in order to produce a bowie like this
Mario
------------------
Gaucho
Tuvo muy mala suerte...se callo en mi cuchillo.
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 05-09-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 05-09-2000).]
[This message has been edited by Gaucho (edited 05-09-2000).]
