Cliff Stamp
BANNED
- Joined
- Oct 5, 1998
- Messages
- 17,562
Thanks to Sal Glesser I have had two Gunting trainers for some time now and thanks to Andy Wires an Escalator live blade and trainer.
There were many changes made to the design as the Gunting evolved from the Escalator. The grip has a much more aggressive checkering for additional security, a couple of addition pressure point applicator parts and a completely redesigned clip to aid retention as well as to enhance grip changes. Of course the blade has the Spyderco hole and the thumb ramp has serrations which increase kinetic opening and again have martial aspects. All of these aspects are fully covered in the video by Bram.
Here is a shot of the blades :
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/gunting_escalator_side.jpg
What interested me most was the locks and I had an excellent chance here because I could observe long term use effects. One of the Guntings I have was one of the first prototypes and has been used a lot, the other is a relatively new one. The only effect the use had had on the older model is to cause the liner to engage about 0.015" further out as compared to the newer one. The lockup is just as stable on the new blades, both with tight lockups and no play. The lock obviously wears very well.
I have commented in the past about my experiences with the compression lock in terms of stability tests (spine whacks and such) so there is no need to repeat that here.
The Escalators are another matter altogether. The action on these is horrible. The grating is so severe you can actually hear the grinding. The locks have also become very unstable with use with play developing in both blades.
The lock on the Trainer failed (would not engage) and had to be repaired. It was serviced by Bob Talor which did fix the lock but left the action just as bad. The assembly also left the blade with a visible gap in the scales (bad picture) :
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/escalator_gap.jpg
The live blade version has a severe problem as well as it will not engage again once the lock has been released. For example :
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/escalator_jammed.jpg
Note the position of the lock release in the live blade on the bottom leaves the blade unlocked. It sticks this way when opened and you can even do a kinetic opening and the blade will bounce back after opening (onto your hand) as the lock will not engage.
Interestingly enough this seems to be related to the piviot as if I loosen the screw this problem goes away but then the blade play increases and the screw backs out with use.
Some background detail on these problems can be found in this thread in which Andy describes the problems :
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum22/HTML/000400-2.html
The problems he describes with the fit and finish and screws are readily obvious and were noticed even by a couple of non-knife people I showed them two. You can readily feel the liner above the scale for example on the live blade as the edge is sharp and catches on your thumb as you pass it over it.
The choice of a lock release on the Escalators also has significant disadvantages as compared to the Gunting's mechanism as the Escalator lock release can be disengaged during use especially if the blade is deep into a binding material like fabric and you draw it out quickly in an arc. It is also possible, but probably for it to be struck in a combat situation whereas any strike on the Guntings lock release cannot open the lock and would in fact impact on your hand.
The new Rolling locks have a different release mechanism so some of these problems may have been addressed, and users of the old and new locks have commented that the action has improved making them smoother.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 11-08-2000).]
There were many changes made to the design as the Gunting evolved from the Escalator. The grip has a much more aggressive checkering for additional security, a couple of addition pressure point applicator parts and a completely redesigned clip to aid retention as well as to enhance grip changes. Of course the blade has the Spyderco hole and the thumb ramp has serrations which increase kinetic opening and again have martial aspects. All of these aspects are fully covered in the video by Bram.
Here is a shot of the blades :
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/gunting_escalator_side.jpg
What interested me most was the locks and I had an excellent chance here because I could observe long term use effects. One of the Guntings I have was one of the first prototypes and has been used a lot, the other is a relatively new one. The only effect the use had had on the older model is to cause the liner to engage about 0.015" further out as compared to the newer one. The lockup is just as stable on the new blades, both with tight lockups and no play. The lock obviously wears very well.
I have commented in the past about my experiences with the compression lock in terms of stability tests (spine whacks and such) so there is no need to repeat that here.
The Escalators are another matter altogether. The action on these is horrible. The grating is so severe you can actually hear the grinding. The locks have also become very unstable with use with play developing in both blades.
The lock on the Trainer failed (would not engage) and had to be repaired. It was serviced by Bob Talor which did fix the lock but left the action just as bad. The assembly also left the blade with a visible gap in the scales (bad picture) :
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/escalator_gap.jpg
The live blade version has a severe problem as well as it will not engage again once the lock has been released. For example :
http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/images/escalator_jammed.jpg
Note the position of the lock release in the live blade on the bottom leaves the blade unlocked. It sticks this way when opened and you can even do a kinetic opening and the blade will bounce back after opening (onto your hand) as the lock will not engage.
Interestingly enough this seems to be related to the piviot as if I loosen the screw this problem goes away but then the blade play increases and the screw backs out with use.
Some background detail on these problems can be found in this thread in which Andy describes the problems :
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum22/HTML/000400-2.html
The problems he describes with the fit and finish and screws are readily obvious and were noticed even by a couple of non-knife people I showed them two. You can readily feel the liner above the scale for example on the live blade as the edge is sharp and catches on your thumb as you pass it over it.
The choice of a lock release on the Escalators also has significant disadvantages as compared to the Gunting's mechanism as the Escalator lock release can be disengaged during use especially if the blade is deep into a binding material like fabric and you draw it out quickly in an arc. It is also possible, but probably for it to be struck in a combat situation whereas any strike on the Guntings lock release cannot open the lock and would in fact impact on your hand.
The new Rolling locks have a different release mechanism so some of these problems may have been addressed, and users of the old and new locks have commented that the action has improved making them smoother.
-Cliff
[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 11-08-2000).]
