feedback on Ontario bagwell bowie :(

J

joebe

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Jun 17, 2001
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i need some opinions on the Ontario bagwell's, i just got my "Fortress" in the mail and i'm not to sure about them, the size is impressive but the quality of workmanship isn't so hot- might be a return on this one. the blade has some finishing marks on the tip and the handle (plastic !!!) has some minor scratches and blemishes, the guard needs to have the corners smoothed also, it's not THE greatest quality for $160..... how much am i compromising if i go to the "Gambler" with a standard guard and 9 3/8" blade. i get the IWB idea but it's alot of knife. theres no way i could afford or be patient enough to wait for the REAL thing.

not to impressed, maybe i just got a bad one.
 
When I first read an article about them, the unknown-to-me blade steel and plastic handles put me off. I got a Frontiersman instead, 1/3 the price, and I at least knew what I was getting in terms of quality for the money wouldn't disappoint me as much as an Ontrario Hell's Belle.
 
i know the steel is of question and you would think they could supply a wood handle, the knife is scary sharp and they have sharpened the back- but for that much money i expected a bit more, they don't seem to concerned about quality control.
 
Sounds like "Search The Archives" time :)
There was alot written about them when they came out, check last years archive.
The plastic handle is a surprise to me :eek:
Good luck,
Ebbtide out.
 
Handle is wood; laminated, but still wood.

Quality on those I have sold has been good so far

John
 
two more things that bother me about them is that the nameplate isn't flush with the handle, it's pinned in place on top of the handle and the frog stud is only held in place by the surrounding leather it already "gives" quite a bit, doesn't seem like it would last over time.

i'll see if i can find the dealer at the next gunshow that was selling them for $100 and compare the quality, maybe the "Gambler" with have a better finish. to improve the sheath you need river city and another $50-$75.

how about some sites that offer similiar styled bowies for around $100 ?? anyone have any ?
 
My experience with the Ontario/Bagwell's is somewhat limited, but the ones I've handled had good fit and finish. I've heard some negative comments on the grind lines but not experienced that myself. I seem to recall the "nameplate" is intentionally raised to aid in feeling the orientation of the blade. The handle of mine was Dremeled to match the same configuration as a Bagwell Helle's Belle, don't think it is plastic. Wasn't real fond of the sheath myself, course I don't like most of the factory supplied sheaths, so I had Mike at RiverCity fix me up. A search in the archives is probably a good suggestion. See if you can find Gaucho/Mario's review.
Stay Safe,
Clyde
 
I have had a Helles Belles Ontario Bagwell for over a year now. I like it. There were concerns at first. The rough cornered coffin handle. I rounded all the corners, so that it has smoother corners and it is quite comfortable now. My handle is wood. a laminate Pakawood type stuff. But wood none the less. The nameplate being raised, if I understand this corectly is for someone in the dark to be able to know which way the edge is facing. It works well for that purpose. The sheath stud while a little mobile has held up. Your correct that a River City sheath is a HUGE step up in Quality. I must make a note to get one also. Use it. You will not find much like it in the price range. They are really a pretty good knife for the money.
 
I've had the Hells Belle for about a year and really like the knife. Yes the steel is not first rate - probably 440a or Aus6 heated treated to only 52-53rc. Yes, the handle is paccawood. Yes, I've seen samples with less than perfect grind lines and less than perfect fit and finish. However, this knife is a fighter not a utility or skinner. For that purpose, I think the design, size, and balance more than outweigh these short comings (I've seen some of the same issues with more expensive custom knives). If you can get one for less than $150 I don't think you've done so bad.
 
it's not a bad knife, i am just picky as hell well
spending money, i cringe when it's over fifty bucks
for a knife. i think with a little sprucing up as
suggested it would be a big improvement- someone had
mentioned that they knew of a bowie maker charging
around $100 for his fighters but i never got the name.
you guys actually carry it at 16" overall ? i think for
me the frog would have to be about 2" lower on the sheath,
the leather seemed like nice quality.
 
IIRC, the Ontario/Bagwell Bowies have a steel that was claimed to be elementally similar to 440-c, but tougher and able to take serious blows such as when you parry an opponent's slash with your Bowie blade.
Keep in mind that this knife is a purpose driven fighter.
The lower Rc of 52-53 allows the blade to (theoretically) take more combat type stresses without breaking or shattering.
Since this is a pure fighter, edge retention takes a back seat to toughness. Remember that in cutlery steels, everything is a trade off.
After you win(or survive) the battle, you can always re-sharpen the knife.
Your excellent edge retention blade may not survive the rigors of the fight.
If that happens and the blades fails or breaks, you likely won't have need to re-sharpen the blade after the battle.
Or pay taxes again, for that matter.:rolleyes:

IIRC, Bill Bagwell keeps the Rc low on his custom models too. I'm not sure on this, but I seem to remember reading that somewhere a long time ago. Sorry about my poor memory. The older I get, the more trouble I have with my steel sieve memory.:(
They say when ya get old, it's always the memory that's the first thing to go. Or was it libido? I can't remember.:p
 
Me thinks Misque is on the money as far as the information regarding the blade steel and Rc. However I must correct him on memory being the first thing to go, it's actually the second...course now I can't remember the first :D
Stay Safe,
Clyde
 
misque, Clyde, and others,

Thanks for correctly addressing some of joebe's concerns - I can keep this fairly short.

joebe,

If you were looking for a carry/fighting Bowie, you did very well in the bang for buck area when you got your Fortress for $160, no matter the minor scratches - it's still a Bagwell design and you did say it was sharp in all the right places. Brand new Ontario Bagwells come from the factory wrapped in copius amounts of protective tissue paper, so I would think that your specimen was either used or had banged around on the dealer's table for a while. From the factory, they are immaculate. The belt stud sheath is an excellent way to carry one of these, concealed or otherwise. Concealed carry takes a little experimentation, but is easily accomplished. Hint - it's a "floating" system. If you haven't had the training to use the fighting guard, or you are of small stature, the Gambler is probably a better choice for you. At 5'9", 172lbs, I have no trouble carrying a Fortress concealed, but the Gambler concealed is absolute child's play. As for the factory sheath, it is fully serviceable and keeps in line with the Ontario/Bagwell project's goal of delivering a Bagwell designed Bowie at a more affordable price than the customs. Yes, there is a difference, and yes, it's worth every penny, but the Ontario Bagwells definitely do their job well. I carry one when situation dictates that I don't carry the real deal.
 
i returned the Fortress, the weird thing about it was that the knife was boxed but it had no protective oil/grease and it was IN the sheath ?? i found that strange. you're probably right, they must have sent a demo or return, i'm going to give it another chance and get the Gambler.... hopefully the condition will be better. i was suprised the blade wasn't greased and in some sort of cardboard cover
as is usually the case. maybe just a fluke, the Gambler is only $130.

thanks for the responce,
 
joebe,

You won't find any grease on the blade from the factory (it's stainless), but it does come with a protective cardboard sleeve. You should be happy with the Gambler, it carries well.
 
Hi there Mike,
I was wondering, do you have in stock one of your nice inside the waistband sheaths for a Helles Belles Ontario bowie? I love the sheath I got from you for my D-2 Sifu. If you have them in stock, what would the cost be? It seemed that since the stock sheath carrys fairly well for me that one of your concelex sheaths would be even more compact and thin not to mention solid as all getout. I do feel one of your sheaths would be a super upgrade. I do not mind the stock ones, but concelex is so tough and thin, it is hard to beat. I seem to remember that I realy liked the picture of one of your sheaths for the Helles Belle also. Take Care.
 
ArchAngel,

Many thanks for your comments! I do the Southern Comforts for all the Ontario Bagwells and most other large knives. Because they are fixed blades, I use a thicker Concealex than on your SIFU sheath, but it's still a lot thinner than the leather sheath and carries better. The blend of retention and the all important release when drawn from concealment, requires that these be fitted to the individual knife, including the production ones. Wish I could sit here and crank them out off of one knife, but that doesn't work for the fit to be correct. Price will depend on which OB it is, whether you want the Carbon Fiber pattern Concealex, and if you want me to do the Bagwell bevel on the end of the handle (makes it feel even more like a custom Bagwell). Call or email me, I'd love to hook you up with one. Take Care.
 
what exactly is the Bagwell bevel, what is the mod-first time i heard about this.....also what is the additional cost on that ?
 
Check out mineral mountain hatchet works for custom bowies under 200, If anyone is doing customs under 100 it's news to me.
 
I hadn't seem much on the Ontario versions.., some great feedback from all!! Thanks!


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt whay they [NEED]"
 
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