Folders that don't fail lock-up, serious replies only please...

Melvin-Purvis

Melvin-Purvis

Temporarily Retired
Staff member
Super Mod
Joined
Jan 14, 2001
Messages
18,959
...this one's for you J. ;)

I had a fellow forumite ask me via email tonight what I thought were some of the better locking folders on the market today that wouldn't fail lock-up under use or stress.

He's had a lock-up failure that led to a serious cut, as have I, and wants to buy a 'solid' folder that won't fail him in the future.

Being that I, (based on my own experience), don't trust 'bending' knives; and as such am a fixed blade guy, I couldn't answer his question...so I'll ask it here, for both of us, and hopefully we can all learn something.

Being that 'both' of our failures were with BM linerlock's, (and my Endura too), and he's not too fond of his BM Axis lock, based on the size/shape, (he has the larger version of the 705, whatever model that is), I'd like to leave BM's and lockback knives out of the equation.

General parameters here are, 'No more than $100', an EDC that will not fail under use...(Everything from 'spine whack' to 'twisted in the ribs as you roll in the dirt'), and something small enough to not draw undue attention...

I'd like to add, 'something comfy'...no raggity assed edges to tear up the hands and clothes...

Also, I'd like your answers to be based on your own 'personal use', not just something you read somewhere...ok?

Now, honest to god, I'm trying to learn something here, so please, serious answers only...and NO TTO's!!!

No flames, just useful answers...that's what I'm asking for.

I appreciate your taking the time to answer...(I know, this must have already come up 8 bazillion times, but I missed it...and he says he's been here from the 'get go'...)

Anyhoo, teach me something folks...the ball's in your court now... :eek:
 
I don't have extended experience, but I got to hold an Al Mar SERE at the store today. Pretty badass. Nice, thick liners, solid lockup. Probably gonna have to get one.

BryanH
 
All, please, read the post, (twice if you need to), and then answer from your own personal experience...

Thanks again.
 
Take a look at the Spyderco Chinook. It's a lock-back, but it's not a typical one. It has an extra deep notch and a super strong spring. The notch for the lock bar release is also rather small. All this adds up to a difficult lock to accidently release. You can't cause it to release under a white-knuckle grip and it won't fold from intense spine pressure or whacking. James Keating designed this knife to be able to perform back-cuts, something I wouldn't recommend with a liner-lock. Spyderco has a machine that is used to test and rate the lock strength on folders. The Chinook's lock has tested as strong as anything on the market currently. It is part of their MBC (Martial Blade Craft) line up which requires a folder's lock to withstand 200 lbs. of force per inch of blade."We can tell you that the Chinook is running in the 800 inch/lbs range exceeding our Spyderco MBC lock strength rating of 200 inch/lbs per inch of blade." That's a quote from Sal at the Spyderco Forum. I've trusted my fingers with it.

To paraphrase Sal...it's not important which type of lock is used but how well it is designed and executed.
 
Just my opinion:

It is my opinion that due to un-informed opinions in the knife community...many from "wannabe" experts here on this forum and others, folks are asking for un-realistic performance from folders. They want them to twist, pry, whack, chop and crush concrete without failure of any kind.

Now, no matter what folder is suggested, you can search the forum and find instances of lock failure for it. Even the vaunted Axis lock had people doubting it after Chris Carraci (sp?) made a passing reference to how it could fail (in theory), apparently not from personal use.

Most good quality folders will perform fine when used for intended purposes however not when people want them to fill the role of pry-bar, hammer, axe and chisel. Some folders might do that for a while, but each time is probably driving them closer to failure.

All that being said, way back when I thought a folder should do it all, I used a Spyderco Endura that I still have. I chopped with it (by beating the spine to drive it through things). I used it to pry with, bang with and just about any type of abuse you can think of. I also found Buck 110s and good quality clones (Schrade etc...) that held up well for me. To tell you the truth, I was just damn lucky that they did not fail on me. A few ounces of steel is simply not designed to handle such stress, its un-reasonable and silly.

Consider the tiny amount of metal that makes up the contact area of a lock....not something I want to trust my fingers to. Abuse it long and hard enough, and it will stress to the breaking point.

If possible Melvin, he would be well advised to do what you do and consider a small fixed blade. If a folder is required, then simply taking into account a folders limits and using it like a knife should be, he ought to be fine. Notice how I mentioned my Endura having never failed. You then mentioned that yours did, so you see...no matter what one persons experience is, that is no guarantee for anybody else.
 
Al Mar SERE is solid and passed the spine whack test. As liner locks go, its one of the best.
 
If you are looking for something that is smaller and still dependable, try either the Buck 112 or the larger 110.
 
The $100.00 parameter makes this difficult. So, my recommendations are based on knives I own, have used, and bought for $100.00 or less. Granted, I got excellent deals on these, so mine do fit the parameter.

1) Buck/Strider- It is rough, but work it over with some sandpaper, and you can have it as smooth as you like. I can't imagine this liner lock failing. Very stout, very functional.

2) Spyderco Chinook- easy on hands and pockets. Mega lock back design. With the thick steel liners, and super strength spring suppling pressure on the lock, I can't imagine this one failing either.

Those are the only two I can think of right now. I can think of others, but not that I own, especially at your price point.
 
You won't find one. Rolling in the dirt sounds like it involves great stress and lateral torque. Discounting the BM Axis, and given the price range.... Nothing even comes close to your criteria.

To quote Will Fennell - "Remember, folders are just 'pre-broken fixed blades'.
 
How about a 3" BM balisong in a nylon sheath on the belt.

It is small, although not totally inconspicuous.

It is about as rugged as a fixed blade.

You can wear it comfortably on the side of your belt.

And you might be able to find one just around $100. I'm assuming this 3" version I've seen is not a custom model. Maybe it is, so it would be more money.
 
He has written this for me and I really appreciate it. A couple things that I didnt say in e-mail were:

Sub-$100 folders I did not say. I actually have owned two sebenzas in the past and sold them because I THOUGHT that $300 was ridiculous for a folding knife. Now after permanent nerve-damage to my pinky from a folder held in a reverse-grip (and failing upon impact) I am thinking about getting a sebenza again.

Really what I am looking for is a folder that won't fail ANY spine whack test (dont care about total holding pressure so much, just HARD spine impact holding power) for AROUND $100. THis could mean $200, or it could mean I have to spen 3-600 for a folder that would meet these qualities. I would also like this to be under 3.5" in blade length for certain reasons.

Heck here I am gonna post one of the e-mails I had with my man Melvin. Howcome when I post about stuff I never get this much reaction, is melvin just the man here or what? Very cool guy.
--------------------------------------------------
JCarnes@optonline wrote:

Subject: Re: Bladeforums post



JCarnes wrote:

Dude what model do you think cut my ****ign pinky? Mini Afck 812sbt, and
it still fails even after being to the factory twice for new liners. My
problem is I want one that WONT FAIL in the sub 3.5" blade size. You stated that you
knew of models that wont fail in your post though. whats that about? Will the
benza fail? I owned one in the past but 3 bills for a using knife is ALMOST out of the question, I may actually buy another one.

I dont like the handle configurations offered for the axis locks, except the afck and then the blade is too long for daily carry, for me at least. Not the legal wise issue of carrying a 4" blade, just that I dont like being viewed as a freak for carrying a knife in general. I have been making out with girls before and have them pull knives from my
back pocket (don't ask what her hands were doing there LOL) and be like "Joe,
what are you doing with a knife" and if it was a 4" folder bro, I might not have gotten laid. We will leave it at that. I think that I can get a sub 3.5" folder that wont fail spine whack tests.
>
> Fixed blade is totally out of the question for above reasons as well. The
women issue isn't the only one, it is an issue with ALL people non-knife or
outdoors oriented. I wont go into it but it has FORCED me to carry smaller folding knives. In a perfect world we could all tote a small dozier fixed blade and not be thought of as a weirdo, but FOR ME TO BE COMFORTABLE I gotta have a
small knife that isnt gonna freak people out when I actually have to use it, or
it is "discovered" on my person. Be it an attractive young female (I am 22) or a
> police officer, I dont want to get "busted" for having a huge knife with
me at all times. These are just my opinions good man. Please get back to me.
>
> JC
>
>
--------------------------------------------------

To sum this up am I going to have to SERIOUSLY CONSIDER dropping $300+ to get what I want? Am I going to have to go higher ($$ wise) than that in a custom frame lock model (TNT-EDC) to get what I want? Put it this way, I could care less about fancy nuggeting and pearl/wood/leather inlays as long as the WORKING PARTS of the knife are flawless. Yes I have been through just aobut every production sub 3.5" folder and they all failed. Larger than 3.5" bladed knives I have been able to get a few that pass a good spine test, all of those under $120 (not msrp the "going" internet price). ALright guys maybe you still have some thoughts.

JC
 
Well the Chinook craps out for you :( The blade is 3.75 inches and it is very wide. It looks big...

:D But it won't fail:D
 
Speaking of ONLY knives I own, the Benchmade 720 fits your criteria. Yes, it is a Benchmade, but it has never failed to open/close/lock/unlock properly even in wet and/or dirt and 'dust bunny' pocket lint ridden conditions. It's lightweight with hardcoat aircraft alum. handles, has a sub 3.5" blade available in 4 configurations...and is as STRONG AS HELL. period. Amazing knife and it can be found pretty easily for $100 or just under.
 
...I am adamently opposed to posting private emails in a public forum.

I hope you find what you're looking for.

Please don't email me again.

John,

Thanks for the tip on the Spyderco Chinook, I'll look into getting one.

Richard, agreed! :D

Mel
 
I was on the same search about 12 years ago after a Puma 4 Star lock back folded shut on my index finger...The Sebenza came out shortly after that, and I ended up with one of the first ones Chris came out with...

...What convinced me to try it (the Sebenza) was that I had one of his fixed blades for a few years, and I thought, this guy can make a fixed blade that won't come apart...ya know, no handle slabs or rivets or screws or glue etc....all one piece.....SO......

his folders must really be like a fixed blade that folds :)I got one in 1991 and it was my EDC for the next 10 years....and it NEVER failed on me.....

I am still convinced frame locks are the strongest type lock for a folder..the stronger your grip on one of these, the stronger the lock becomes........no springs to break or bind...pocket lint won't stop them...no buttons to push ......

I now carry a TNT by Tom Mayo..

I just don't see a proper made frame lock failing a spine whack test...Yeah I know you COULD make one fail somehow, someway if you REALLY, REALLY, REALY, tried..........:rolleyes:

but for the nearest thing to a fixed blade in a folder, go with a frame lock ...and for under a hundred bucks, my Son has a Bench Made Pinnacle or I think Camillus makes a copy of Darrel Ralphs EDC with a frame lock that sells for less than a hundred....

anyway like everyone always says........thats my word on it:D
 
Shel, the only one that I have experience with that would fit what you are looking for is the Buck Mini-Strider spear point. I have seen it on the net for $100, it is small enough not to attract attention and it is built really, really well. I have had the chance to handle one of these knives recently (the tanto version, not the spear point). This was one solid knife. I am not sure if it would stand up to all the things you mentioned, but it stayed locked solid when I hit the back of the blade against my hand.

The only reason that I recommended the spear point is that I personally do not like the Americanized tanto points on knives. If your friend does then that would also be a great choice.
 
Take a look at the Browning Signature Series
I have the model 726. This knife is superbly made. Solid lock up, with no play in any axis. I have never had any reason to doubt it's reliability, short of catastrophic material failure. (I also have an old more badly dented coffee table now.) It is also quite elegant (for a zytel handle) and non-offensive looking. The pockect clip is attachable through the laynard hole. I don't think it is up to par with the rest of the knife and never attached it. If you need a pocket clip on your knife I would suggest a David Boye folder. All the above (except for the pocket clip) applies to it as well.
I know you said that the $100 was really not a consideration, but both these knives can be had for under that. I think they more than meet your other considerations and given my experience with the ones I owned (brother has the Boye) I would not hesitate to use them myself.
Good luck with your quest,
Greg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top