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Follow up on my first small Seb. overly stiff action . . .

Discussion in 'Chris Reeve Knives' started by expidia1, Apr 17, 2018.

  1. expidia1

    expidia1 Gold Member Gold Member

    451
    Feb 18, 2018
    This could be helpful for others such as myself that are new to the opening and closing action of a Sebenza 21 and what happens when they choose to send it into CRK.
    I knew right away there was something wrong with it but having never owned one when I asked in a thread what I got back were comments like "it's a CRK" and they have hydraulic action, they are not designed to be fippers and if I don't like I should look for another brand. Sweet welcome :rolleyes:

    This knife was purchased a month ago from another member. The knife was only born 1/30/18 I don't know if he was the original owner or it was catch and release.
    His ad said that he had only owned it for 6 days, so he also could have been the 2nd owner too.

    Either way, after I called CRK customer support she suggested to me it sounded like a pinched washer to her. She even had me open it to look at the washers, but they looked OK to me, but wadda I know about this stuff. I knew enough to watch a video on how to lubricate and assemble it back together, but it still had the same stiffness. So I sent it in for their spa treatment with instructions not to sharpen it, to center the blade and to check for the stiffness of the action.

    She just called me today, a month from when I sent it in (they did say 4-6 weeks) and she said they had to replace the washers as one "was" pinched. I said I looked at them and what did I miss. But she said the tech holds them up to the light a certain way in order to see what turns out to be a tiny dent which caused the stiffness and the inability to center the blade.

    I'm lucky as it only cost me $4.50 to ship overnight fedex. She said there was no charge for the warranty work, but their return postage is $17.50 (Wow) and thats by 7 days by SlowPS the only service they offer (I can see why).

    Several things I've learned here. CRK is making a killing on the shipping, knowing with a shipping contract as we both have how cheap it costs us to ship. it only cost me $4.50 for overnight delivery. but for the average member shipping it back I'm guessing at least $8-10 by USPS. So that knife I saved a few bucks on now cost me another $27 in shipping fees and its loss of use for 5 weeks. Another lesson I've now learned is to question the seller as to the condtion of the knife rather than be too quick to jump on a purchase (showed my inexperience). I'm sure if a seller buys a knife that was not up to the CRK specs, it could very easily become a quick catch and release or they go through what I just went through. All the description said was basically he needed to sell it for a quick sale! Nothing about the uncentered blade or stiff action . . . not his fault, it was mine due to inexperience.

    One comment on shipping. On another forum i belong to a seller of a plastic case (maybe 10 lbs in a regular sized box) probably sold it for $100 and then was floored when it cost him $60 from FL to maybe MO (I think it was MO).
    We get used to free Amazon Prime shipping until you have to walk into UPS and ship something yourself they really nail you nowadays :mad:

    So new buyers just be aware, if its a great price, don't be so quick to pull the trigger. Sometimes there is a reason that the description is omitting facts like an off center blade etc. In the end CRK warranties it, but its going to cost you in postage both ways and its probably 6 weeks loss of use for a knife you just bought. Better off passing as there will always be another knife for sale here for sure.

    * and if you are thinking "I" was the one who probably pinched the washers, and you know this is what the seller would say. . . think again. I've always had an extremely high mechanical apittude and can fix just about anything (and thx Dad).
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  2. Cheesehead_Slasher

    Cheesehead_Slasher Gold Member Gold Member

    430
    Apr 21, 2016
    Caveat emptor

    I'm sorry to hear about your less than enjoyable buying experience. Before you buy your next folder, ask these three simple questions:

    1. How is the action? (Stiff, smooth, loose, etc.)
    2. Is the blade centered?
    3. Any other issues that I should be aware of before buying this knife?

    Best of luck to you with your future purchases!
     
    T. Erdelyi and expidia1 like this.
  3. PirateSeulb

    PirateSeulb Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 6, 2017
    Just a remark on postage I don't know how precisely they ship it but typically business don't profit on shipping. They might also have the package insured when they ship it is a nice CYA for them and you foot the bill.
     
    Lone_Wolfe and Mo2 like this.
  4. BellaBlades

    BellaBlades Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 12, 2013
    I take it back. Keeping mouth shut.:D
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  5. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    If there are obvious problems that are not disclosed, you can always ask for a refund-but don't be petty and overly critical when doing so. The seller should take it back without major problem, but if they refuse you can always file a claim as long as you paid G&S.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
    expidia1 likes this.
  6. 91bravo

    91bravo Gold Member Gold Member

    Jun 29, 2008
    Your post doesn't sound like it would be helpful to any new members. It sounds like a complaint about how CRK is making a killing on shipping costs, despite shipping contracts. Lesson learned; always ask questions about the knife before you buy it! And sometimes, a good price is exactly that, a good price; not someone omitting faults of the knife!
     
    MarriedTheMedic likes this.
  7. blanco112

    blanco112 Gold Member Gold Member

    734
    Nov 1, 2016
    CRK has said in the past they don't profit on shipping knives, they profit from making them. If they do it's a few bucks higher for rounding. But I've had them send me insured packages with signature via USPS for the same $17.50 (which is about what it costs). So no, they don't charge you exactly what they get charged but it can't be that much more.

    Regarding the warranty work: 99.9% that's not leaving the shop with a pinched washer and it's a user error. So they'll fix it, maybe charge you a couple dollars for the washer and then send it back. The spa service they toss in for free. Doesn't seem like a bad deal. I agree the turnaround time tends to suck, but 4 weeks isn't bad for CRK (it's usually 8) and faster than the warranty service I've gotten from others.
     
    expidia1 likes this.
  8. Josh K

    Josh K Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    o_O

    I'm really curious to see how you get FedEx to overnight something for $4.50. Even putting insurance aside, that's less than USPS First Class costs.

    I don't think that CRK has a profit center around shipping costs. It doesn't make sense. Charge $1 for new washers and collect profit in the shipping?
     
    RyanRaben likes this.
  9. expidia1

    expidia1 Gold Member Gold Member

    451
    Feb 18, 2018
    Perfect, I just copied it to my iphone notes section. And thanks for that. I've already bought 4 more CRK's since that purchase and around a dozen more over the past 2 months. So I've had to learn by the school of hard knocks. I especially appreciate your feedback a more experienced members here . . . thats why I post questions and read old threads. I've also learned how to sharpen edges myself if need be but I try and keep the factory edge in case of resale. I mirror edge the one's I never plan to sell. Also, I've learned that CRK inner workings are only the two phosphor bronze washers (quite a credit to his design and tolorences). so I don't see myself ever sending back another knife to the factory. Benchmade is jsut as bad for turnaround time but they only charge $4.95 for shipping back. Too bad CRK won't sell us washers if we buy a knife with pinched washer. Hopefully, for me it only one out of my 5. And I highly doubt it ever left the factory like that. Problem is CRK ships their knifes with the allen wrench which only serves to have the curious take a look inside. If it was up to me, I'd never open it. But buying used, you never know a knifes history.
     
  10. blanco112

    blanco112 Gold Member Gold Member

    734
    Nov 1, 2016
    Yeah I missed that on the first go around. I too would like to know how to overnight via Fedex for that price. Generally, UPS and Fed Ex don't become cost effectively against USPS prices until the package is a few pounds and you're never paying that little.
     
    Josh K likes this.
  11. Cheesehead_Slasher

    Cheesehead_Slasher Gold Member Gold Member

    430
    Apr 21, 2016
    CRK washers are $1.50 a pair. When you sent your knife in you should've ordered two additional sets pre-fit for your knife. That way if/when you pinch another washer you have a replacement. I figured this out with my first CRK :)
     
    expidia1 likes this.
  12. expidia1

    expidia1 Gold Member Gold Member

    451
    Feb 18, 2018
    Thanks thats great to know. I can't absorb all the rules and tips here in my short tenure. Always helps when another members responds just like you just did. From now on, I fix these things myself. To me its part of the fun of the hobby. I just didn't expect to have to learn that end as quickly as I've had too with some of my other brand purchases that i bought used here. They only other issue I can see is buying a knife with a bent blade, then it has to go back to CRK or the seller. I can see a seller saying I bent it though. This is why feedback is so important to me.
     
  13. expidia1

    expidia1 Gold Member Gold Member

    451
    Feb 18, 2018
    Sure, no problem. Its a good question for you asking for proof
    . Here is one I shipped back to benchmade
    Sure, and thats a good question to ask me about proof. No problem. Funny thing about these delivery shipping contracts. I ask my secretary to ship the cheapest way. We only have two choices overnight or 1-2 day. Most of the time when she keys it in to print the label, its cheaper for overnight than it is for two day. Go figure!

    But check out CRK's postage rates I just took a pic of on their website. My last sebenza's back spacer is gold but its fading. So I ordered another one on CRK. $5.00 for the spacer, $2.66 for postage. Fair enough. But travel down their rates. Especially check out what they get for shipping a $5 spacer next day early delivery that I can ship the same for $4.50 . . . if the pic it too small . . . they get like $116! Still think there is no profit in their shipping.

    The bottom line is most consumers are unaware that many companies yu buy a product from their profit margins are so tight due to their competition they are making most of their revenues "off your shipping". Im not saying this is the way CRK is making their profits. They are not gouging us on parts. $5 for a gold andodized OEM back spacer is pretty damn fair IMO as is their $2.66 shipping. But Im sure they are making up some of their free spa labor warranty work with a decent margin on their shipping. From what I can see knowing what I can ship for.

    This pic below is fedex ground 7 day. I'll take a pic of our overnight or 1-2 days as its near the same thing!

    Here is a 2 day fedex that went back to knifecenter: $4.47

    IMG_6215.jpg
     

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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
  14. Josh K

    Josh K Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    That's a FedEx SmartPost option, which is fulfilled by USPS. It's also Ground service, not Overnight.

    Yes, because if I go to UPS and plug in Next Day Air Early A.M. as the service option from here to Boise it's the same rate CRK lists. It's a Shopify storefront, with a shipping module. These are normal rates.

    [​IMG]

    CRK's shipping rates line up perfectly with what it costs me to ship something retail.
     
    RyanRaben and expidia1 like this.
  15. expidia1

    expidia1 Gold Member Gold Member

    451
    Feb 18, 2018
    Go back and look again, I was posting a two day also but you were too fast for me. Even at $4.5 for ground shipping thats cheap too.
     
  16. expidia1

    expidia1 Gold Member Gold Member

    451
    Feb 18, 2018
    I was told here in another thread that CRK if you want washers that you have to send it in. That they won’t ship them to you. That would be great if we could order them they all use the same ones at least on three of my 21’s. But I would think they would last for 20 years. It’s buying used CRK’s that I worry about. At least in my short experience.
     
  17. Josh K

    Josh K Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Sep 29, 2008
    Either you ship a lot of volume with FedEx exclusively or you're far better at negotiating a shipping contract than most.

    I'm really curious though, how about you take tomorrow's newspaper from Albany and overnight it to me? Happily will send you the cost of the paper + $4.50 for the hassle.
     
    RyanRaben likes this.
  18. expidia1

    expidia1 Gold Member Gold Member

    451
    Feb 18, 2018
    Agreed to disagree. I’m not complaining I’m just not shipping them another one of my knives. You do what feels right for you. I’ll fix whatever I have to myself.
     
  19. BellaBlades

    BellaBlades Gold Member Gold Member

    Jul 12, 2013
    CRK has sent me a check in the past to cover any type of shipping regarding warranty work. They have also sent me screws if they fell under warranty on a new knife.

    Shipping on parts is only $2.50. I dunno.

    Other than that pay the charges. You should see what I payed Emerson one time to get my buddy's knife fixed.
     
  20. Lapedog

    Lapedog Gold Member Gold Member

    Dec 7, 2016
    In my experience new CRKs come fairly stiff and require a break in period. After that period they smooth out. When you first get them they are knives you have to thumb open rather than flick open. Once they break in they can be flicked open, however that is not in the design.
     
    expidia1 likes this.

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