Fowler/Szilaski Hawk & Knife Collaboration

D

DancesWithKnives

Joined
Apr 21, 2001
Messages
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I was at Ed Fowler's table at the Blade Show West and got a look at a hawk from Mr. Szilaski (hope I'm not butchering the spelling too badly---I left his card in the car). He had traded it to Ed for a knife. Ed told me that they beat the heck out of the hawk to make sure that Ed's heat treating process was appropriate for hawks as well as knives. Apparently it is just fine. The hawk looked almost new, despite the beating it had taken.

At the Szilaski table next door was an example of his hawk & knife collaboration with Ed. What a great set-----if I ever win the lottery, it's mine! There was also a pipe hawk that looked extremely cool. I asked Mr. Szilaski if people ever smoked with it and he replied affirmatively. At a Rendezvous, a bunch of guys were partying and passing one around (regular tobacco only, he emphasized!).

Ed Fowler also spoke positively of the work done by Two Hawks and stressed that if you want to know about fighting with a hawk, he's the man to ask.

There were a couple of extremely attractive "art hawks" at the show, but I'm embarrassed to say that I misplaced the maker's card.

The Strider guys had a nasty looking hawk on their table. Steve Ryan was nearby with some wicked looking knives, but no sign of the vicious hawk he carried last year.

All in all, not a bad show.
 
DancesWithKnives :

Ed told me that they beat the heck out of the hawk to make sure that Ed's heat treating process was appropriate for hawks as well as knives.
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Is this a 52100 tomahawk head? Was the hardness specified? How was the edge geometry?

-Cliff
 
Cliff,

I'm really embarrassed to say that I was focusing on Ed's knives and didn't pay enough attention to the hawk to give you useful answers. Perhaps he or his wife could be encouraged to describe it on this forum.

In the next few days I had planned to write you a "thank you" for the advice on the Uluchet, so I'll take this opportunity to express my gratitude. What an excellent little tool! So far I've used it only in the kitchen, but the ergonomics are great and the edge is terrific. The kydex sheath is also outstanding. It is definitely going on my next elk or hog hunt.

Thanks again and sorry about my lack of specifics on the hawk.
 
Both the hatchet and the knife as well as the hawk that Ed had were forged by Joe and hardened and tempered by Ed. The knife was a typical Pronghorn blade with a brass gaurd but had a stag handle. the axe and the hawk had edges that were thicker than what would be found on even a LARGE camp knife but was thinner than what is usually seen on axes and hatchets. Neither the hatchet or the hawk had been etched so I couldn't tell if they were edge quenched or not. also the set was sold at the show.

Bill
 
I got to see and handle the set at Joe Szilaski's table at the Guild Show. What a great set. Somebody is very lucky to own them.
 
Regarding the colaboration between Joe Szilaski and I: Joe forged two hawks or belt axes, according to your knowledge of these type of artifacts. The belt axe with the hammer head was for me to use fencing and for our testing of the nature of the steel. Both axes were forged by Joe. I did the heat treating, they were differentially hardened 52100 steel from the same 6 inch round bar of steel provided by Rex Walter.
All testing of the axes was done on the one I was to keep. The rockwell was around 58 to 60. I cut everything from old cow bone to 50 year old seasoned oak. I could not make the edge chip. It cut very well and I sent it to Joe for further testing. Joe also thoroughly tested the blade and gave it his approval. The axes were tempered to be slightly softer than the blade.Joe did the handles for both belt axes.

I forged, heattreated and put a guard on the knife. Joe crafted the handle on the knife and both axes.
 
DancesWithKnives :

[Uluchet]

What an excellent little tool! So far I've used it only in the kitchen, but the ergonomics are great and the edge is terrific. The kydex sheath is also outstanding.
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a quality made product and P.J. is great to deal with. The expandable handle really allows a lot of power in a small package.

Ed thanks for the details on the tomahawk heads. Would it be possible to give some specifics on the nature of the edge geometry? Was the bevel flat or convex? How wide was it? How thick was the blade behind the edge? Approximately what kind of angle was it ground to?


-Cliff
 
The cutting surface was about three inches. 3/8ths inch from the cutting edge the blade was about 5/32's thick. The edge was a very light convex grind to a little above that depth. Like I said, the edge was very stable, when it dulled sharpening was on my Norton Fine India stone. Joe is the expert on edge geomertry on hatchets, I tried several variations of edge geometry, found what I bleieved to be the thinest, yet stable with a slight margin of strength added. Joe did a lot of cutting with it and and she passed all tests. The blades were tripple quenched and tripple anealed. 24 hour wait between each cycle.

All the deep releaf carving on the pieces was done by Joe. The handle design was Joe's, he has a lot of thought in their design and I am looking forward to using mine building fence this fall. Any other questions are welcome.
 
Ed Fowler :

thinest, yet stable with a slight margin of strength added
Click to expand...

Yes, they are exactly the guidelines I use for my working blades.

Thanks for the details on the edge, that is some high performance geometry indeed. Personally I am running my hatchets with a little more curvature to the edge. They now start off with a 8-10 degree sweep and thicken to about 14-16 degrees near the edge. I have ran them thinner but had problems on knots in wood.

However my chopping technique is not where I want it to be. I am still getting the occasional wave in the chop and this produces far more stress on the edge when it encounters a knot. Once I get rid of this and run on clean lines I'll drop the edge back down to about 12-14. Of course the steel makes a large difference, the traditional hatchets I am using are not up to par with cryogenically treated 52100.

I would estimate with a top of the line steel and good technique I could maybe get down to a 8-10 degree final edge sweep once my technique is cleaned up. On clear wood you can obviously go lower, but there is not much of that around here.

-Cliff
 
I'm bringing this forward because Two Hawks asked about it in a recent thread. I believe that I saw a photo of the set in Blade a few months ago (advertisement, I believe).
 
Nice thread you guys!! Thanks to all for the highly informative information. I've always loved Axes...Hatchets..., etc.., but this was a big help...


"Hunters seek what they [WANT].., Seekers hunt what they [NEED]"
 
I talked to Joe tonight, he has a photo of the set, I asked him to send it to Phil and hopefully Phil can post the picture on this form.
 
Blues,
Why didn't you show me the HAWKS at the Guild??I was busy seeing what new stuff you were handling(Blues knows everybody)& "I MISSED THE HAWKS"!! Thanks buddy!:D
jim
 
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Welcome Aboard JoeS!

This set is amazing, I was it a Blade, and I thought I was hallucinating when I saw a stag Prong horn. :eek:
 
Thank you, Ed & Joe, for sharing the info & pic and thanks, Phil, for posting it. I have to go wipe the drool off my keyboard now. ;)
 
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