Hi, Ive been a knife fan for quite a few years but never got the hang of sharpening knives by hand. I brought the lansky system and found that it worked ok but it was difficult to sharpen large bowies and i could not obtain what I call sharp (being able to shave arm hairs on one or two passes. cut paper cleanly etc). I tried the pull through systems as well which were great for a quick sharpen but they removed lots of metal from the blades and they seemed to blunten quickly . I then read a few of the threads on manual sharpening, brought some ceramic stones (spyderco) and started to practice using the freehand methods. I found I was able to obtain a very sharp edge using the double bevel technique, feeling for the burr etc. I am so happy that I have finally started to get a hold of manual sharpening - I think the ceramic stones helped as well. So my question is. For the ultimate edge, what is better: an expensive sharpening system or spending the time to learn the manual sharpening method on a decent stone?. My opinion based on my limited experience is the manual system.
-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Freehand sharpening Vs System sharpeners - whats better?
- Thread starter general38
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 26, 2007
- Messages
- 906
I think that most people here on the forum will tell you this: Systems make it easy to get ridiculously sharp edges with a short learning curve. Freehanding is an art. I've not yet seen a system that can best a manual job by a skilled individual-with an emphasis on SKILLED. I'm still learning freehanding, but already is better than with the Lansky Standard kit I have. Good luck on your quest.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2004
- Messages
- 490
The only system sharpener I have is the Spyderco Sharpmaker and I'll admit it was great when I first got it and got my knives really sharp, but I think thats just because before the sharpmaker I just had up to 600 grit.
Now I exclusively freehand, using the sharpmaker like a benchstone.
I think systems are great for beginners but I prefer freehand. In my opinion you'll be hard pressed to find a system that comes close to what the really good freehand sharpeners can do.
Now I exclusively freehand, using the sharpmaker like a benchstone.
I think systems are great for beginners but I prefer freehand. In my opinion you'll be hard pressed to find a system that comes close to what the really good freehand sharpeners can do.
I've never tried any sort of jig, system, guide or anything of the sort. Nothing against them, I'd imagine a sharpmaker would be wonderful for microbevels, I'm just happy with freehand sharpening. I enjoy it and I feel I'm pretty good at it.
I used to not even know there were techniques to sharpening, I just slid a steel rod from a kitchen knife set across the blade and wondered why I couldn't get it to shave hairs like the people here talked about doing.
Now I can acheive hair whittling sharpness pretty easily. I consider sharp to be when the knife effortlessly removes the stubble on my left arm (Test sharpness too much there for hair to grow
). Once you understand the basic concepts, all it takes is a lot of practice and experimentation with techniques. It's really not very complicated. Re-set the bevel to something more acute than factory sharpenings provide based on the steel, hardness, intended use and knife size, then refine the bevel on gradually increasing grits of stones, then apply a microbevel for quicker re-sharpening and strop. Or leave it toothy if that's the type of edge your knife needs. No big mystery about it, I don't understand why so many people here have never tried it.
I used to not even know there were techniques to sharpening, I just slid a steel rod from a kitchen knife set across the blade and wondered why I couldn't get it to shave hairs like the people here talked about doing.
Now I can acheive hair whittling sharpness pretty easily. I consider sharp to be when the knife effortlessly removes the stubble on my left arm (Test sharpness too much there for hair to grow
). Once you understand the basic concepts, all it takes is a lot of practice and experimentation with techniques. It's really not very complicated. Re-set the bevel to something more acute than factory sharpenings provide based on the steel, hardness, intended use and knife size, then refine the bevel on gradually increasing grits of stones, then apply a microbevel for quicker re-sharpening and strop. Or leave it toothy if that's the type of edge your knife needs. No big mystery about it, I don't understand why so many people here have never tried it.
- Joined
- Jul 16, 2007
- Messages
- 1,096
I haven't recieved my Edge Pro Apex yet, but at first blush it's hard to see how it could be inferior to freehanding, at least in theory. It's still hand-powered, it uses waterstones just like you'd use to free-sharpen...to me it looks like it is freehand, in essence, but with a guide (if that makes any sense!
). The only difference is that your strokes will be at an extremely precise & consistent angle.
I expect that I'll get better results than with a benchstone, but I do not claim to be a master at freehand sharpening. Although I'm looking at a sharpening school in the summer; I'd love to become more proficient with different types of tools (eg paper wheels, stones, F. Dick machines, etc).
). The only difference is that your strokes will be at an extremely precise & consistent angle.I expect that I'll get better results than with a benchstone, but I do not claim to be a master at freehand sharpening. Although I'm looking at a sharpening school in the summer; I'd love to become more proficient with different types of tools (eg paper wheels, stones, F. Dick machines, etc).
- Joined
- Jun 4, 2007
- Messages
- 63
I like both free hand sharpening and my EdgePro Apex. There is something of a hybrid, Ken's Precision Sharpening Device. It offers the accuracy of the EP while offering a much greater range of angles and it cuts fast as it uses full size 8x3" stones. Sort of the best of both worlds so I ordered one.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jB0pNsI1mZY
Buzz
http://youtube.com/watch?v=jB0pNsI1mZY
Buzz
never used a system, but i know that i love freehanding. never felt the need for a system.
i love the versatility as much as the crazy sharp edges i get. with my stones i can sharpen anything under the sun. knives, big knives, really big knives, axes, chisels, plane blades, needles (most needles don't really come sharp nowadays), awls, and just about everything else.
i am looking to get a nice simple harbor freight 1x30" very soon for sharpening. also what i would consider freehanding, more or less. unless you use an angle jig of some sort.
i love the versatility as much as the crazy sharp edges i get. with my stones i can sharpen anything under the sun. knives, big knives, really big knives, axes, chisels, plane blades, needles (most needles don't really come sharp nowadays), awls, and just about everything else.
i am looking to get a nice simple harbor freight 1x30" very soon for sharpening. also what i would consider freehanding, more or less. unless you use an angle jig of some sort.
- Joined
- Apr 27, 1999
- Messages
- 6,117
I do most of my heavy work freehand, from reprofiling down to lower angles to basic edge formation. For most purposes I like the finish that I get from a ceramic hone for the last micro-beveling stage. For me it is very convenient to use a Spyderco Sharpmaker to hold ceramic hones at a controlled angle for that microbeveling. The flats of the Sharpmaker provide a good edge finish without much to worry about. I could do the same thing with a ceramic bench hone, but I don't think there is much difference and the rods fixed in a base is very convenient. When you are only microbeveling the Sharpmaker rods work pretty conveniently even with a long blade. I have another sharpener with much longer and thicker round ceramic rods that I typically use on 12-inch bladed chefs knives.
I must admit that most of the time if I have extremely heavy material to remove I use a belt sander. For long blades it kicks ass. I use the belt sander "freehand" in that I don't use a fixture to control the grinding angle.
I must admit that most of the time if I have extremely heavy material to remove I use a belt sander. For long blades it kicks ass. I use the belt sander "freehand" in that I don't use a fixture to control the grinding angle.
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,473
I can sharp needles, hooks, darts and arrows like a seasoned prisoner, even on the pavement of my own street, but I just suck at getting a decent edge on high-end knives. For this reason, I think Sharpening Systems are great and should be used by everyone afraid of ruining their expensive blades.
- Joined
- May 19, 2006
- Messages
- 3,721
I pretty much bought every system I came across. I finally decided to get a 1000/8000 norton waterstone combo. I now use it exclusively, except for quick tough ups with a sharpmaker.
The waterstones give me a ridiculous edge and work great for pretty much anything but D2 and 154cm.
Take care,
Brett
The waterstones give me a ridiculous edge and work great for pretty much anything but D2 and 154cm.
Take care,
Brett
- Joined
- Aug 2, 2006
- Messages
- 2,809
Buy a few old beaters at garage sales, and learn the little idiosyncrasies of it, and you'll never look back!:thumbup::thumbup:
(Actually, you'll wonder why you waited so long to get it!!
)I've never used a devise of any kind, but then when I learned to sharpen a knife there were not any devises around. I've always used just a small pocket size stone and then a flat diamond hone when they came out.
Free hand gives you freedom to maintain your edge away from home or headquarters with just a small hone stached in a wallet. Once you learn the feel of it, it's only 2 minutes to touch up that dulling blade anywhere, and pretty much anytime.
For many years now all I've used is a Eze-lap model L sharpener in fine grit. I cut off all but one inch of the red plastic handle so it fits in the zipper compartment of my wallet. With that, and the back of my belt I can get back to shaving sharp in a few minutes anyplace.
Free hand gives you freedom to maintain your edge away from home or headquarters with just a small hone stached in a wallet. Once you learn the feel of it, it's only 2 minutes to touch up that dulling blade anywhere, and pretty much anytime.
For many years now all I've used is a Eze-lap model L sharpener in fine grit. I cut off all but one inch of the red plastic handle so it fits in the zipper compartment of my wallet. With that, and the back of my belt I can get back to shaving sharp in a few minutes anyplace.
"Better" for what/who?
Neither is better overall, they are just different.
Both freehand and systems require attention to what you are doing and practice to get it right. Guided systems (like the Lansky and DMT) make holding the angle a matter of set-up rather than something to be managed on each stroke. It will depend on which works for you to give you the results you want.
Greg
Neither is better overall, they are just different.
Both freehand and systems require attention to what you are doing and practice to get it right. Guided systems (like the Lansky and DMT) make holding the angle a matter of set-up rather than something to be managed on each stroke. It will depend on which works for you to give you the results you want.
Greg
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2007
- Messages
- 106
I use my Tormek 2000 for most of my sharpening. I do most knives freehand about 95% of the time. If I need to sharpen a large, high-quality chef's knife or a hunting knife I generally use the knife jig because I can keep the bevel at a more consistent angle. I also use the jigs when I sharpen plane blades, chisels, and turning tools in the shop.
I am sold on the paper wheels for smaller knives, particularly pocket knives. Only takes a minute or two to put an extremely keen edge on small blades. I use the Edgemaker Razor Edge 8" x 3/4" wheels on an old 6" bench grinder I picked up at an auction for $5. Takes a delicate touch to avoid bluing the tips of the knives because they heat up pretty quick on the paper. I also use the paper stropping wheel to take the wire edge off knives I sharpen on the Tormek if I want a particularly keen edge on a blade.
I repair abused knives and establish working edges on the KMG clone I built last winter. I can't afford a VFD with reverse so I rigged up a 1/2 horse motor behind the machine so I can run it backwards just by changing the belt over from my main motor. Works like a champ! I usually go with a 120 grit belt to reshape broken points and grind nicks out of the blade. I switch to 220 to put a new bevel on then finish the job on the Tormek.
I first began sharpening knives with stones many years ago and learned by trial and error. Bought my first LoRay system 20 or so years ago and fell in love with the guided sharpening. Also wore out several Lansky units both stone and diamond. I like the Lansky and other guided sharpeners for casual use and to tote along in the field. However, they are slow. Good for keeping a few knives sharp but if you sharpen for profit you won't make much money.
I know the Tormek is expensive but with the volume of sharpening I have to keep up on in the shop and in the kitchen I spend more time working than I do trying to keep blades sharp. I've also set up my machine at quilt shows in the local area and sharpen scissors for the quilt makers. Only takes a few minutes to sharpen scissors better than they came from the factory. I charge $4 or $5, depending on how big the scissors are, and have made enough to pay for my machine. I tote along the paper wheels and sharpen pocket knives for a dollar or two as well. I have a lot of fun talking to the customers and make a few dollars as well.
Having said all that, I think no matter what system you want to use you will be way ahead of the game if you learn how to do a credible job free hand using stones. It's hard to tote a Tormek or belt grinder along on a hunting trip and it's even harder to plug one into a tree and expect to get power to it.
I am sold on the paper wheels for smaller knives, particularly pocket knives. Only takes a minute or two to put an extremely keen edge on small blades. I use the Edgemaker Razor Edge 8" x 3/4" wheels on an old 6" bench grinder I picked up at an auction for $5. Takes a delicate touch to avoid bluing the tips of the knives because they heat up pretty quick on the paper. I also use the paper stropping wheel to take the wire edge off knives I sharpen on the Tormek if I want a particularly keen edge on a blade.
I repair abused knives and establish working edges on the KMG clone I built last winter. I can't afford a VFD with reverse so I rigged up a 1/2 horse motor behind the machine so I can run it backwards just by changing the belt over from my main motor. Works like a champ! I usually go with a 120 grit belt to reshape broken points and grind nicks out of the blade. I switch to 220 to put a new bevel on then finish the job on the Tormek.
I first began sharpening knives with stones many years ago and learned by trial and error. Bought my first LoRay system 20 or so years ago and fell in love with the guided sharpening. Also wore out several Lansky units both stone and diamond. I like the Lansky and other guided sharpeners for casual use and to tote along in the field. However, they are slow. Good for keeping a few knives sharp but if you sharpen for profit you won't make much money.
I know the Tormek is expensive but with the volume of sharpening I have to keep up on in the shop and in the kitchen I spend more time working than I do trying to keep blades sharp. I've also set up my machine at quilt shows in the local area and sharpen scissors for the quilt makers. Only takes a few minutes to sharpen scissors better than they came from the factory. I charge $4 or $5, depending on how big the scissors are, and have made enough to pay for my machine. I tote along the paper wheels and sharpen pocket knives for a dollar or two as well. I have a lot of fun talking to the customers and make a few dollars as well.
Having said all that, I think no matter what system you want to use you will be way ahead of the game if you learn how to do a credible job free hand using stones. It's hard to tote a Tormek or belt grinder along on a hunting trip and it's even harder to plug one into a tree and expect to get power to it.
When i say better I mean the ultimate edge for sharpness and durability for a particular knife style regardless of how long it takes. I found the angle of the stone changes when using a lansky on larger knives or across a medium to radical drop point. You are right when you say it takes time and practice to freehand sharpen - its taken me a while and reading the sharpening guides on this site have helped me immensely. Now I really enjoy sharpening using just the stones and for the first time I am happy with the sharpness i can consistently replicate for a wide variety of knives. To maintain consistent angles i use my thumb as a guide (top of thumb, middle of thumb etc), and i also listen and feel the feedback from the blade edge on the stone for each stroke. The angles used of course depend on the knife design, steel and end use.
To be fair to the lansky, I am probably overly fussy about what is sharp.
Very true and not much talked about. The holes in the jig are a little oversized in my opinion, and in my experience as you change from stone to stone you must be careful to ensure the wire goes to the same depth in each stone. Each stone must follow the same path as the stone before it. Fail to do this and the stone will sit differently than the preceding stone but the angle at the back end will be determined by the hole. Micro examination will then show a blade with multiple bevels. The trick with the Lansky is to set it up so that each stone covers exactly the same coverage area, at the exact same angle, as the stone that preceded it. A fast test is to make a few passes with the coarse stone, then a few passes with the fine stone. There should not be patches of brightness in just one place. It should provide a uniform coverage. Patches of brightness in multiple places is okay however, and merely represents peaks and valleys caused by the difference in stone smoothness. Too often what we see though is a little shiny spot indicating a whole new angle of stone approach. Keeping the angle the same is hard to do and it takes a lot of attention. Once the stones are set up, one probably wants to leave them attached to the wire guide and just trash the box. Once the Lansky sets the bevel up for you, the next task is training your wrist and hand to consistently deliver the sharpening stroke with your whet or oil stone at precisely the same angle as the bevel.
Freehand.
I grew up before any the new gadgets came to be.
Add, I was in a work where hand ols had to be sharpened by hand.
There was no way a "gadget" would sharpen as the tool needed to be sharpened.
Plus - while we had some "power tools" like a Foredom Flexshaft, or Baldor with 1750 /3450 RPM - one had to learn "Hand Skills" before they could use "power tools".
Polishing for instance was done by hand...
Learning the correct basic fundamentals is how I was raised. Once these are learned, one can better understand and appreciated a "gadget" or "time saver" if need.
Then again if one learns on a crutch and said crutch is lost or broken - now whatcha gonna do?
So out camping, hiking, Serious Situations hit, ...etc., and the ability to use a 3" x 1" stone in one hand and freehand sharpen with the other is not only a correct basic fundamental - also a valuable skill set.
Or a File for a axe or machete, or...
Simple skill sets are valuable skill sets.
I grew up before any the new gadgets came to be.
Add, I was in a work where hand ols had to be sharpened by hand.
There was no way a "gadget" would sharpen as the tool needed to be sharpened.
Plus - while we had some "power tools" like a Foredom Flexshaft, or Baldor with 1750 /3450 RPM - one had to learn "Hand Skills" before they could use "power tools".
Polishing for instance was done by hand...
Learning the correct basic fundamentals is how I was raised. Once these are learned, one can better understand and appreciated a "gadget" or "time saver" if need.
Then again if one learns on a crutch and said crutch is lost or broken - now whatcha gonna do?
So out camping, hiking, Serious Situations hit, ...etc., and the ability to use a 3" x 1" stone in one hand and freehand sharpen with the other is not only a correct basic fundamental - also a valuable skill set.
Or a File for a axe or machete, or...
Simple skill sets are valuable skill sets.