future Moran Sheath

Joined
Jan 13, 1999
Messages
1,422
Sal,

I have one of the original Morans and will get another before they ran out.

Somewhere I heard Spydie will be coming out with a new Moran w/ a new sheath. I don't think I'll care for the new Moran, but, I would be interested in the sheath. Assuming the sheath will fit both models, will the sheath be avialable to order by its self?




------------------
No, I was never lost. But I was mighty bewildered one time for three days.

--- Daniel Boone
 
Twg - We are currently looking for a sheath maker. Are waiting for samples from a few. Once it is in production, we will make it available to those that want one, one way or another. I have questions;

1) Why do you feel that you wouldn't care for the new Moran?

Anybody out there have any opinions on who and what features will make the best sheath for the Moran?
sal
 
Sal,
I have the kydex Edgeworks tactical sheath for my Moran. The so called "Allman Brothers" sheath (named for BF member Bob Allman who was trying to get a Moran sheath for his active duty son). I think this is a great housing system for the Moran. Fits very snug and extremely well made.

I wouldn't mind seeing the Moran in a non-mirror finish version. Of course 440V would be great but I would be happy in other steel grades, too since I realize not everything can be made with 440v.

A black ti coated Moran would be very interesting, too. Not sure how practical it would be to make it.

One of our members (Chad) bead blasted his Moran and really liked the appearance of it. No matter what, it's a great knife at a great price.

Thanks,


------------------
~Greg~

 
Sal, thanks for your reply. I mentioned I wouldn't care for the new Moran because the original was one of the few perfect factory knives I have seen. Sure I wouldn't have paid full price for it. But at the present discount price, it's a steal. The current internet dealer's prices are so low that, the few dollars I would save by going for a "second-rate" Moran just isn't worth it. Second, if I buy something with Bill Moran's name on it, it might as well have the Moran edge.

I don't know much about sheaths, as I have been a folder person mostly. It sounds like the best ideas have already been spoken for. Obviously a multi-carry sheath will make the most of this versatile knife. I like Edgework's design that allows you to clip it inside the pocket. Ideally it should work for either pocket to suit left and right hand useage.

Furthermore, as this is a camping knife, and many campers subscribe to the big knife/small knife idea. It would be useful to have a sheath that can be strapped on to the sheath of a large knife.

Thank you for your patience. That's all I have to say about that.

------------------
No, I was never lost. But I was mighty bewildered one time for three days.

--- Daniel Boone


[This message has been edited by tallwingedgoat (edited 08 May 1999).]
 
Sal,

As you may have read elsewhere, I really like the Spydie Moran. So much so that between my two sons and I, we have 5 of them
smile.gif
. And yes, the two designs of kydex sheath Edge-Works did were for my eldest son and myself. Very happy with those!

But you've asked about why some might not like the newer version of the Moran compared to the older. My understanding is that VG-10 is being retained which is a plus in my book... nice steel. The composition handle, although expensive to form, is also being retained... another plus The only real changes are to replace the leather crossdraw sheath with a kydex sheath, drop the expensive mirror finish for a satin one, and to drop the Moran rolled edge for a beveled edge.

The Moran edge on a knife named for the designer seems to be a prerequisite.... dropping it just strikes me as inconsistent with the Moran name applied to the knife. The mirror finish is fantastic but as others have already pointed out, not necessary. The replacement of the leather crossdraw sheath with a multipostion kydex is another plus. So from my knothole the new version reflects sound production cost reductions and targeted ELU desires except the rolled edge. Hence my continued advice to forumites to pick up an existing model before they're gone. If the Moran edge were to be retained, I'd simply recommend the choice as a personal one based on finish and manufacturer's sheaths.

Is the Moran edge that expensive to apply?

-=[Bob]=-

[This message has been edited by bald1 (edited 08 May 1999).]
 
Sal, although your question was directed at TWG, some of my thoughts on the Spyderco Moran:

The current features of the Spyderco Moran are what make it unique. The shape of the blade with convex edge is what makes it a Moran and so extremely sharp. The mirror finish is beautiful and on a practical level, probably makes it more corrosion resistant and easier to clean.

The sheath, although attractive, and putting the knife in a presumably good cross-draw position on you belt, is too difficult to use. For example, it is too easily damaged by insertion of the knife.

The current handle is comfortable, tough, light in weight, and presumably helps to keep the cost down. Possibly, like Mad Dog knives the handle is dielectric??? Although you have asserted in this forum that it is tough, I would be more comfortable if I knew, with more specificity, how tough? I recall discussing this in a thread inquiring about drilling a lanyard hole through the handle.

For instance how much pounding could it take. Obviously the blade is not one of those 1/4 sharpened pry bars, but .... inquiring minds want to know.
wink.gif
I know at least one hunter who uses his knife, an old Western, to split the chest of a deer, rather than reach in to cut and pull out the esophagus. I am not a hunter so I may have been inexact in quoting his description. Can I safely recommend the Spyderco Moran to him? I know his current knife is getting narrow from years of use.

The other uses I can think of would be to drive it through a car window in an emergency, but I would not be worrying about the handle then. Another stress it might be subjected too, especially in an emergency, would be obtaining kindling, or in splitting off a piece of wood or branch for some other reason.

This knife is ideal for someone who wants a quality blade at a good price for low impact backpacking, where every once counts. It might, however, still be called on to accomplish the above chores, e.g., if that backpack gets carried off done a river, or destroyed by an animal.

Yes, a flat ground might be easier to produce for Spyderco and easier for the end line user to sharpen, but then it is not really a “Moran.”

I would prefer that the Spyderco Moran be kept the way it is, except with a different sheath. Some ideas regarding a sheath, including ways to keep Concealex/Kydex from scratching the blade, have been discussed at:

www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum20/HTML/000484.html

I personally want mine in denim Concealex!
biggrin.gif
so sign me up!

With Spyderco’s usual ability to innovate and solve almost any knife related design problem, I am confident that you can devise a sheath that will not hold excessive moisture yet protect that wonderful finish without going to a satin finish. We’ve already had some ideas. If you do change the finish, I particularly like the stone wash finish on my Sebenza, of course I am not sure this lowers the cost....
redface.gif


Using the word Edgeworks and doing a search turned up numerous threads discussing sheaths. There seems to be some discussion regarding the best.... I do recall a thread from the maker Edgeworks stating that they were overloaded at the moment.

Now to pay for it. I saw an interesting idea on how a non-professional can maintain a Moran edge. It involved using a leather strip to provide a cushion, covered with either an abrasive compound and/ or abrasive paper. Ahhh...I found it....Cliff Stamp, quoting Mad Poet....is this like playing telephone???

If I'm not using a sanding belt to put a convex edge on, I use emery paper or very fine grit wet/dry sandpaper on top of a leather pad that is attached to a wooden block. you lay the blade almost flat on the sandpaper, and press just enough so that the leather 'gives' a bit, so the edge comes out convex instead of flat. It take a little practice, but works good. If someone wanted a polished edge they could go from there to a very fine crocus paper and even rouge on the leather pad to strop the blade out.

It was at the thread entitled, “So how do you sharpen a rolled edge - BladeForums_com The Leading Edge Of Knife Discussion.htm”
http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/002106.html

It should be relatively easy to assemble these items in bulk, along with a sheet of instructions, but perhaps more trouble in smaller quantities. I suggest that every Moran contain an order form for this special sharpening kit, along with a box to check for the Sharpmaker. Bladeforums could carry this kit too. Of course, a couple of years down and around the convex curve, the user will need more supplies for the kit. Some will opt for the local hardware store, but others will just order again!

Please send me the first kit, along with the invoice.......of course since I am suggesting the kit, the invoice should be low.
wink.gif


Second way to pay for it, marketing. I had enthused over the Spyderco Moran to a friend as I thought he would like it. At a local knife show, there was only one Moran on display. I don’t know how many that seller had, but his price was somewhat high. At least it convinced my friend. He had a local dealer order one for each of us. They liked them so much that they ordered more to keep in stock, for sale. (At a lower price than the one at the knife show!) I know from what you have said that the price may be lower than you prefer, but at this price if the word gets out I think it should be a bigger hit than it is. Forumites keep enthusing and fellow readers buy it, but that leaves a lot of potential missing sales. More demos are needed. I hate companies, and try not to patronize, ones that try to force dealer to carry unpopular models to get the ones everyone wants. There has to be a good way, however, to accomplish the same thing. Pictures and literature to dealers help, but are not as effective as the real thing. I assume that dealers pay for stock and display models. How about loaning some display models on a temporary basis? (I know that, you know, you may lose a few this way, but as an attorney I feel compelled to mention it.) After all, our order of two resulted in an order of five more.


Lastly, how long are the original Spyderco Moran knives going to be made? Are you still producing them? I, along with TWG want to get another one, but I expended too much on knives recently, so I would prefer delaying a little longer. My friend feels the same way. The dealer that I mentioned apparently took all the ones in the distribution channel that it uses, so I am concerned with supply. Related question, if you do not mind answering it. About how many Spyderco Moran knives have been made so far?

I hope these thoughts are of some help. I do realize they sort of answer your question in a reverse manner. I guess you get what you pay for.
biggrin.gif


Regards,
Donald

[This message has been edited by Donald (edited 11 May 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Donald (edited 11 May 1999).]
 
We'll try some answers;

How strong are they? Danelle, have we received any back and for what?

Is it a Moran? The pattern is Moran's years of experience. The "Moran" edge has been around since 800 AD (Hamaguriba edge on Kzatana).

How Many have been made with the original polish and edge?. (They are built and gone, the next run is flat grind satin finish, kydex sheath). Danelle, please get that quantity info from Susan.

Can they remain as they are? Not at the current price. Even the new model is very close.

Hope this helps.
sal

 
I'm confused. you want to drop the convex edge on the Moran model? Because it's hard to sharpen?

Just my $0.02, but for a few years Blackjack was making their fixed blades in the U.S. with all "Moran" edges, and this didn't seem to cause much trouble. I hung around a knife store that did a brisk trade in them, and, yes, folks would come in and say "how do I sharpen this," but is that a big deal? Just like serrations, some people preferred to have it done professionally rather than learn a new technique themselves. But others could sharpen that edge, and in any case you could always just put a normal bevel on there yourself, as many customers did. It's really no big deal, and I don't think it hurt Blackjack's sales much; in fact, it was part of what made their knives the sharpest on the market (they really were!), and that brought in many sales.

In short, Blackjack did well with the convex edge (tax problems were their downfall, right?) - so can you. Customers DO like it, and if they don't it will aquire a normal bevel just through standard sharpening techniques. How does Bill Moran feel about it?

------------------

-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Call me weird, but:

I don't think the Moran needs a convex edge. I think the main advantage of a convex edge is strength, and it may be more appropriate on a heavyweight chopper, such as an axe or kukri. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the Moran edge is what makes the knife "so extremely sharp" (as Donald has said above). What makes a knife sharp is a THIN edge ground to a relatively acute angle.

The original edge on my Spyderco Moran Featherweight was actually a bit too thick for my taste. I tested the knife a bit, and then decided to reprofile the edge to a thinner, and (yes, believe it or not) *sharper* V-grind configuration. I didn't even wait for the knife to get dull before I sharpened it to my own specifications. Call me weird, but the knife is sharper (and more useful to me) than it was when I bought it.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the new Moran Featherweight with satin finish, conventional V-grind and Kydex sheath will be every bit as good or better than the original in all respects pertaining to function, which is what matters most to me. The mirror finish and convex edge are unnessary, regardless of whose name is on the knife.

In fact, (call me weird) I think a satin finish looks better than a mirror finish. But then, I don't like chrome on off-road vehicles either. It is nice to be able to use the blade of the knife as a mirror, though.

Of course everybody has different priorities, and I mean no disrespect to those whose opinions differ from my own.

David Rock
 
The Moran is a "sleeper." Great knife, no one really knows much about it outside of the owners. I love mine and am looking about for another one or two. The only gripe is the sheath. I will get some kydex sheaths made for mine. My wife likes it so much she has one in the kitchen. Great light utility knife. Too bad the Boy Scouts have banned fixed blades, the Moran is perfect for camping. Just my $0.02 worth
 
Corduroy - Sorry for the confusion. We are dropping the Moran edge becuase it is difficult and expensive to grind the way it is done in Seki. They do all of their grinding on "hard" wheels. Doing a Moran Edge on a "Slack-a-belt" style of sharpening with belts is relatively easy (That's what Blackjack used), but it is not a process that they do or are intersted in doing in Seki.?? (Blackjack went under (the 2nd time) for the same reason as the first time. Mike Stewart is more "con artist" than businessman, [my opinion]).

The Mirror polish just takes more time. Time = money.

We are trying to keep the model and offer it at a rate that the ELU can/will purchase the item. The curent price on the current Moran is non profit. A company cannot exist too long doing this.

Copfish - thanx for the support.

David, I agree with you on edges and values mentioned.

It is too bad about the scouts, I agree the Moran is the perfect Scout model.
sal
 
A Scout model fix blade? What would Jeff Cooper say?
smile.gif


L8r,
Nakano



------------------
"To earn a million is easy, a real friend is not."
 
Sal,

Thanks for the statement about Mike Stewart. I would have loved to have stated that myself on many occasions but instead I simply stated the Stewarts. Mike and Mark. Were lousy business men. Actually there were several things going on that would have brought the business to an end. Sorry about getting of track here. I will say that I do think the Moran with anything but a convex edge is a major mistake. It has caused me to add one to my list of things to order from my supplier tomorrow. I do understand though why you are changing it though. I would sure hate to be the one trying to grind that kind of edge with the grinders the are using in Seki. Was there any thought of producing them in the US?

Regards,

Tom Carey

------------------
IF you are a knife maker interested in free space on the web.
Check out. CGA online

www.anova.org/cga/



[This message has been edited by Tom Carey (edited 09 May 1999).]
 
OK I feel I would like to weigh in.

I think that a Spydie Moran with flat/satin/regular will be perfectly Moran.

What is the point of the mirror when use is going to scratch it and most won't polish to keep it?

If flat will bring cost down, then go for it, this knife needs to get to the people, I can not think of another in it's class I like better, including customs I have owned.

And regular edge, right on, 99% are gonna go to it anyway, and those that aren't can put a slack belt to it if they want.

So I guess I come down more pragmatist than idelaist on this one, I am snapping them up because of the price point.

------------------
Check out the future possible Spyderco Worker 2000 www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum20/HTML/000224.html

One may want to keep an Eye out for my review of the Bob Kasper designed, Kevin Gentile modified AFCK and interview of Bob Kasper. Sorry about the wait, my review and interview should be online shortly, luckily Spark has graciously offered to do the pictures, look for it right here at BladeForums.com.

Marion David Poff ska Eye, one can msg me at mdpoff@hotmail.com

"A journey of a thousand miles begins but with a single step" Lao-Tzu
 
Tom C,
I guess we're a minority about having a Moran edge on a Moran designed knife but I too do indeed understand Sal's situation. If truth be known, my feeling on the edge was more for the advertising implications than the edge strength. Oh well...

All,
I love getting e-mail about products I have happened to post my enthusaism about. Late last summer, I put up a lot of cyber-ink about the Moran and later the Edge-Works sheaths I commissioned. Well here's an e-mail I just received from a friend who is a firearms instructor and LEO. I think it speaks for itself:


Bob:

I best stock up on these things. Where is current best location/price?

Was in ***** with some associates conducting training and they all
marvled at the Moran. One who has a lot of "schooling" under his belt tried
very hard to make a case against it. Went through a variety of forms and
edged weapon katas with mine,,, LOL..... that was the linch pin. Didn't
help when I gave his ***** a whack with my bare hand and popped the lock.

Thanks again for one of the best knives I own, which is enhanced by one of
the best sheaths I own...

*****


Like I keep saying, if you don't own a Spydie Moran, you owe it to yourself to check it out.




------------------
-=[Bob]=-

I did NOT escape from the institution! They gave me a day pass!

 
Alright lets be realistic here. The Spydie Moran is a classic but it costs too much to produce. What are Sal's choices? Continue to make a knife he can't sell at a profit? Or change the design to one that can be made for a cost that allows a profit? I've got two and will probably pick up a third but if a new model comes out with the Spyderco name on it I will buy that too. We are all on notice. Consider the current model to be something of a limited edition collectible like the blade forums native and get three: One to use, one to sell (only in dire straits of course!) and one for your estate. If you want a knife just like the Moran and are willing to pay what it costs there are plenty of custom makers out there. Some of you guys seem to want a Lexus at Chevy prices. Ain't going to happen. BTW, I bought my second Moran from a forumite ad and it come with a Bob Dozier Kydex sheath that is fantastic.

phantom4

------------------
who dares, wins


 
I apologize if I haven't been up on my knife news for the past year ot two, but I have to ask: Is Bill Moran still with us? Could he have a say in this?

If it's a production issue and a standard bevel will get more knives to more folks, I'm all for it. But if I were the maker behind a collaboration, I'd want to be consulted before changing it.

------------------

-Corduroy
(Why else would a bear want a pocket?)
 
Corduroy, Bill is still with us and I'm sure Sal will consult him before making any changes. If he doesn't agree with the changes and doesn't want his name on the knife I can certainly understand. But that is no reason not to produce the knife and call it something else. I for one do not buy anything because it has a particular name on it but because I like the design. I was at my buddy's house wearing my Canyon River Blues jeans from Sears that I got on sale for $12.50. His teenaged son came in in his practically identical Tommy Hilfigers that cost $50. I don't see the point. The kid even thought I was wearing Tommys til he got up close. It is obviously different with knives. I don't buy look a like junk but the name I'm looking for is the knife company not the designer. I don't mind paying more for a collaboration if I like the design but I'm paying for the design and the manufacturer not for the designer's name on the blade. I'll buy a Spyderco Tim Wegner but I wouldn't buy a Spyderco Gucci-Wegner with leather over G-10 if it cost 2 or 3 times as much. Just my opinion.

phantom4

------------------
who dares, wins


 
Okay so anyone know how many original Morans were made? That's gonna be important if I start collecting them.

Phantom, I agree with you on the Sears jeans. That's a great buy.

------------------
No, I was never lost. But I was mighty bewildered one time for three days.

--- Daniel Boone
 
Tallwingedgoat: K- Mart Route 66s Carpenters. Big pockets with lots of room!

Phantom4: er, is that Moran with the Dozier sheath in dire straits?
smile.gif


L8r,
Nakano

------------------
"To earn a million is easy, a real friend is not."
 
Back
Top