Guranteed for life?

archieblue

archieblue

Joined
Mar 19, 2001
Messages
3,157
In the immortal words of Chris Farley... "If you want me to take a dump in a box with a warranty, no problem."

It seems to me that there are ways out of any warranty. There are holes in the legal system that any bozo can manipulate their way into and get whatever outcome they want. It all depends on who jumps up and down, flails their arms and screams the loudest. The company pretty much has "All the cards in their hand." If they say you mistreated their product, they pretty much have the final word. To me there are two terms which a product in question can be described. USED and ABUSED. There are many different sub categories within these two terms which DO NOT MATTER!!!

I've been reading the posts when I have time for about a month, finally purchasing a small plain sebby last week at a local gun show.

This knife is Guranteed for LIFE.

This knife is guranteed for LIFE.

You are the users. You are the people who matter.

You are the makers of music
and you are the dreamers of dreams.

WHAT IS USE?

WHAT IS ABUSE?

(Just for sh!ts and giggles I copied and pasted Websters defination for both at the bottom of this post.)

These questions are YOURS to answer!
They are NOT Chris'
They are NOT Anne's.

I am vague for a reason. The words USE and ABUSE are vague. If you USE your knife to hammer something, in most folks opinion you have ABUSED your knife. SO what SHOULD a knife be USED to do? Open--cut comething--close. Over and over until "Life," whatever that is, occours.

One guy screaming "Hey my Sebenza can't cut bricks, and when I tried, Chris would'nt replace it!!!" is a fool, and people will let him know it.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

The bottom line is CHRIS has the final word, whether you USED or ABUSED your knife. DOES THIS MEAN IT DOSENT MATTER WHAT YOU THINK or SAY?

I'm a musician. I KNOW who's opinion matters. I rely on ONE fact:

Instant Karma IS gonna get you!


Use:
1 a : the act or practice of employing something : EMPLOYMENT, APPLICATION <he made good use of his spare time> b : the fact or state of being used <a dish in daily use> c : a method or manner of employing or applying something <gained practice in the use of the camera>
2 a (1) : habitual or customary usage (2) : an individual habit or group custom b : a liturgical form or observance; especially : a liturgy having modifications peculiar to a local church or religious order
3 a : the privilege or benefit of using something <gave him the use of her car> b : the ability or power to use something (as a limb or faculty) c : the legal enjoyment of property that consists in its employment, occupation, exercise, or practice <she had the use of the estate for life>
4 a : a particular service or end <put learning to practical use> b : the quality of being suitable for employment <saving things that might be of use> c : the occasion or need to employ <took only what they had use for>
5 a : the benefit in law of one or more persons; specifically : the benefit or profit of property established in one other than the legal possessor b : a legal arrangement by which such benefits and profits are so established

Abuse:
1 : a corrupt practice or custom
2 : improper or excessive use or treatment : MISUSE <drug abuse>
3 obsolete : a deceitful act : DECEPTION
4 : language that condemns or vilifies usually unjustly, intemperately, and angrily
5 : physical maltreatment
synonyms ABUSE, VITUPERATION, INVECTIVE, OBLOQUY, BILLINGSGATE mean vehemently expressed condemnation or disapproval. ABUSE, the most general term, usually implies the anger of the speaker and stresses the harshness of the language <scathing verbal abuse>. VITUPERATION implies fluent and sustained abuse <a torrent of vituperation>. INVECTIVE implies a comparable vehemence but suggests greater verbal and rhetorical skill and may apply to a public denunciation <blistering political invective>. OBLOQUY suggests defamation and consequent shame and disgrace <subjected to obloquy and derision>. BILLINGSGATE implies practiced fluency and variety of profane or obscene abuse <directed a stream of billingsgate at the cabdriver>.



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peace love arch
 
If you are asking what constitutes use and/or abuse when it comes to your Sebenza and it's warranty then it absolutely is up to Chris or Anne or one of their employees. More than likely the final decision would be made by Chris Reeve if there were some sort of gray area.

If you implement your Sebenza to cut wood, cardboard, meat, soft plastic, rope, twine, paper, sharpen pencils, make pointy sticks or any other regular knife duty then that would be use.

If you use it to chop concrete, pry open Al Capones vault, open your trunk when you lost your keys, heat to a bright cherry red to cauterize your gunshot wounds while bighting on an arrow, or any other thing that a knife is not designed for then that would be abuse. Perhaps I'm being too flippant but I think most people who are willing to spend ~$300US on a knife are knife educated enough to know what a folder will do. I'm sure there are exceptions and as you say anyone that uses their Sebenza to cut bricks is an idiot.

You may want to do a search on this subject here and over at the CRK forum on Knifeforums. This subject has been used and abused in both places numerous times.

Paul
 
Archie:
I guess the final word is up to Chris. He has been making knives for a long time and has the final word. He is an honorable man and has always treated me well. I beleive that he will give you the benefit of the doubt. The only complaint about unfair warranty work came from the now infamous Lenny. After two years he had some blade play. Ernie charged him $100, replaced the locking side of the knife and added a new blade. What a stink was made! Turned out that Lenny had dissasembled his knife and filed down the lockbar to make it easier to disengage the lock. Two years later he had some blade play. After getting his knife back and personally talking to Chris, Lenny was very humble and grateful to Chris and very pleased with his knife and what it cost to repair it. I can't argue every possibility with you but I will say that Chris is a man of his word and will bend over backwards to please his customers. You will not be dissapointed with your Sebenza!
 
archieblue,

I know you are an artist, but can you sum it up in a few sentences for me?


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Rick Gray - Left Handers Unite
 
Slight correction:
I BENT the Lockbar outward, not FILED.
The piece I FILED was the corner directly across from the Lockbar which dug into my forefinger in a tight grip.
I admit, the BENDING could've been the cause of the problem. The FILING had absolutely nothing to do with the lock-up problem.
And yes, I was very happy with the way Mr Reeve handled the entire thing. At first, I wasn't until certain facts were pointed out to me.
Lenny
 
Well, I had a lot of things in mind on this post.

In my opinion you don't buy a sebenza for a warranty in the first place. Sorta like you don't buy a Land Rover for it's warranty. You buy a Honda or Hundai for the warranty because youre probably gonna nee it.

BUT, wouldnt it be nice to know the warranty's limitations. I mean one person's OPINION from anothers. Chris is the head cheese, and obviously he holds all the cards. And obviously almost EVERYONE is happy with the service he provides, BUT it IS possible that there could be a lemon in there somewhere, and if it were someone like me who got it, it dosent matter if Jesus loves his knife if mine dosent work right! OBVIOUSLY it is a RARE occasion that a Sebenza dorks out, so IM SURE there would be some question in whether or not it left the shop defective. SO Here's a question:

What would a knife maker look for in an "abused" knife. And COULD this problem come from 3, 5 or 25 years of REGULAR USE. And when I say regular use I mean exactly what Paul Davidson said:

"If you implement your Sebenza to cut wood, cardboard, meat, soft plastic, rope, twine, paper, sharpen pencils, make pointy sticks or any other regular knife duty then that would be use."

I also consider OPENING and CLOSING the knife REGULAR USE. Which brings me to another question:

At which point of opening and closing the knife do the good people of this forum consider "ABUSE"???
A certain NUMBER of times opened and closed per hour or day?... the SPEED you open and close it?... the FORCE applied on the parts that could wear out?...

PLEASE UNDERSTAND I am NOT trying to light fires under anyones ass here. I'm just curious, and yes, a little ignorant in this topic, SO i have some questions.

 
Yes, opening and closing is included as use. It's a given, if you don't open it you can't use it. If you don't close it you basically have a fixed blade with some weakness in the tang area. Chris does consider flipping the Sebenza open over and over again abuse. The only time it should be flipped open is right after reassembly, as this seems to "settle" everything on the knife a little bit. From my experience that isn't usually necessary. Flipping the knife repeatedly and forcefully will certainly flatten out the stop pin and cause some problems. I believe that the Sebenza would probably handle a fair amount of flicking/flipping but why do it?

I think everyone is a little confused here though archieblue. Do you want to know what will void the warranty on a Sebenza, or do you want to know what the average knife knut considers use or abuse? Perhaps both? You write, "wouldn't it be nice to know that warranty's limitations?" Nobody can really answer the warranty questions for you except CRK (which has already been stated a couple of times). I'm not trying to be rude, but you really should spend some time reading old posts on this forum dealing with Sebenzas. Search for key words Sebenza and warranty and you should find some of the answers you are looking for.

You are new here, and obviously interested in knives, which is fantastic. You will learn a lot here. Electronic communication has made it possible to learn in a few months things that might have taken years of regular show attendance to hear/learn. In general though, people tend to get a little irritated by the same questions being repeated over and over (Is the Sebenza worth it? being the main pet peeve of most people on this particular forum) when they have been dealt with so much in the past. That is probably why you are not getting much response on this. This is not intended as a flame, but merely to let you know how it tends to work. I spent months lurking here and at knifeforums before I started posting. On some forums people are fairly merciless to FNGs, but here things are a little nicer. Stay curious, but try some research too.
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Peace out,
Paul
 
I have never and will never ask if the Sebenza is worth the money. I didd'nt even ask MYSELF that BEFORE I got one. I just think that things are vague that could be clearer. I am an intelligent person. I ask intelligent questions. It seems very clear to me that I am not understood here.

The FACT is that this could be "argued" out to oblivion. That is why I AM NOT ARGUING WITH ANYONE. I am asking questions. I'm just trying to learn. People should be happy just to BE ABLE to help someone, and then bathe in the light of knowledge and the fact that THEY made someone smarter.

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peace love arch
 
Did the search that you recommended, Paul (thank you!) and to everyone who has helped me so far:
Consider this question answered!

more later!

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peace love arch
 
You are right. A warranty is only as good as it is when you need to use it. With personal items from small companies you are not just buying a product, but the service of that company behind the product. At least that's how I feel when I buy a knife from Chris Reeve and a few select others. My purchase decision invoves my consideration of the product, its resale value and the company behind it.

If another company offers a no questions asked warranty but is out of business or in bankruptcy when you make your warranty "claim" - where does that leave you?

If a company offers a warranty and then renegs, refuses or otherwise fails to satisfy, you have a couple of choices. You could sue, though the costs would most likely exceed the value of the knife. Or you could bitch, howl, growl, mumble, groan and otherwise complain privately and, as sometimes happens, publically.

Some knife companies could not care less. They just keep on doing what they do and rely on new customers to replace the old ones that they have abandoned or alienated. Others care. They care because they want to keep making money and money is made by selling product at a profit to customers both old and new. Of the companies that care, some care because of the personal beliefs, their conviction to conduct themselves and their business affairs in a certain manner. And, some even care for the corny old reason of obtaining a sense of satisfaction, if not pride, from servicing their customers.

Of the latter subgroups, a loyal customer following will likely evolve. Not that followings cannot be developed though other, less honorable means, but by and large knife companies reap what they sow in connection with customer feedback and loyalty. To that extent customers can be used as a barometer.

I do not think I have to go much further to make my point about the type of company Chris Reeve Knives is and the type of people Chris and Anne are.

Chris/Anne, as you know, from my profession, I see "iron-clad" stuff in writing regularly that isn't worth the paper it's written on.

If your warranty document merely stated that you would perform repairs under warranty depending on how you feel about the particular situation, I would buy your knives and rely upon your warranty.

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 03-24-2001).]
 
As a business man myself who sells Chef knives I deal with this alot. My manufactures warrant the product, but I have to determine if the knive has been abused. It is fairly ovious to determine in most cases. First I always ask what were you doing when the blade or handle broke became loss or whatever. Then of course each blade or knife has limitations and should be used for specific perposes. For example don't try to cut through a bone with a chef knive, the blade will snap. It becomes very ovious over time how a knife has been treated. Looking at the blade for chips a bent tip tells a story, Looking at the handle for cracks dents will also tell you how the knife was treated. In this case Chris may make the final determination but as a good business may the first thing you lear is alway try to make the customer happy.

Wolf

[This message has been edited by The Wolf (edited 03-24-2001).]
 
Here we go... But are they worth the money?
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That is the next question... right?
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Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
Wayne, are they worth over twice as much as a Benchmade Pinnacle? Probably not. But then again I want another one and will pay the price to get it.
Rich
 
Hello, On this subject I think that CRK backs their product no matter how old it is or if you were not the original owner. I bought a older original style lg. sebbie at a gun show. It did not have the clip and I soon found out why. The previous owners had messed up the threading and none of the hardware provided would fit. It was old and in need of attention so I sent it back. They completly refurbished the knife to my total amazement. The finish, blade, fittings all seemed like they were brand new(maybe they were). Old style scales with the same quality and thickness except everything new.......Now thats extra, extra fine service and product backing. It does not get any better than that!
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Life time garantee... I would say so. Except in the case of doing crazy things with the knife that are proven to be abusive to it. In that case they would still offer to cheerfully repair it at a nominal cost. Later, JC

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Jonathan Chubb
 
Sorry it was a rhetorical question
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Wayne.
"To strive to seek to find and not to yield"
Tennyson
Ranger motto

A few useful details on UK laws and some nice reviews!
http://members.aol.com/knivesuk/
Certified steel snob!
 
archieblue,if you think that honda and hundai are the same you have a lot to learn about quality.honda makes some of the most reliable vehicles on this planet.do some research before you make such a broad sweeping statement.(some times knife people are car people too)
 
Hundai = CRKT
Honda = (maybe) Spyderco

LandRover = Sebenza

You bring the best Honda, I'll bring a Land Rover Defender 90. That would be a hoot!~ <IMG SRC="biggrin.gif" border="0">
 
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