Hossom CPM3V Machete

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Jan 21, 2000
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I want to clue you guys in on what I think is an exciting development. Jerry Hossom has been experimenting with machete formats, both with refining the edge geometry on standard machetes and also with his own designs in CPM3V. You can read an impressive review on the CKD ("The Great Outdoors" forum) by our own Bronco (Bill Hall), of a standard Ontario machete with convex edge applied by Jerry a couple of months ago.

Jerry just completed an experimental model of his own design and has allowed me to test it. He has already begun designing his next trial piece, because he's not satisfied with this one. My opinion is a little different.

The blade is just over 18" long, of 3V at about 59 RC, and about .125" thick, with a deep convex edge bevel and convex swedge (to remove weight) along the spine. It has the typically super-ergonomic, sculpted Hossom handle. This one has green canvas micarta slabs, separated from a black micarta bolster with tasteful brass spacer, and finished off with mosaic pins. The blade finish is not mirror, but higher polish than "brushed". The package doesn't look fancy, but appropriately, very handsome. The handle feels great, especially with gloves on, which is how I use machetes.

The reason Jerry doesn't like this model is its thickness--about 1/8". Since the edge bevel transitions directly into the full blade thickness (unlike a conventional flat-ground blade), it cuts more like an ax than a machete. For slashing through light brush, foliage and weeds, this edge/blade profile is not functional, as I demonstrated for myself. Even with Jerry's razor-sharp edge, the blade does not penetrate deeply on springy stems and branches--typical machete fodder.

However, Jerry won't be seeing this machete again, as I've discovered it is the "bomb" for heavier work I normally reserve to hatchets and axes.

My typical way of clearing "jeep trail" type passages, through heavy brush in ranch country, is a technique I've developed over many years of managing hunting areas. Large encroaching limbs are followed back to a fork in the tree. I split the middle of that fork with a full-swing blade stroke. I can then easily bend and break the encroaching limb back and away from the trail. Machetes typically don't stand up to this kind of work very well, especially on mesquite, which is in the same family as ironwood. On the other hand, axes are very awkward, because you have to get into the right position and then aim the head of the ax at the fork, which is a target that requires accuracy within an inch or so of your aim, to split it. If you swing the ax too hard and miss, resulting in a glancing blow, it's dangerous. If you swing too lightly, trying to guide it, the head won't penetrate and split the fork. If the target is above your head, the problem is worse.

"El Macho" (my pet name for the new blade) however, cares not what position you stand in or where it happens to hit along its length. It will cleave mesquite forks, up to about 5 inches across, consistently splitting them deeply enough with one stroke to allow me to bend back and break free large branches with ease. After half an hour of gleefully demonstrating this for myself, I cleaned up the blade and found no evidence of any loss of sharpness (much less any damage). El Macho also smoothly carves off great clumps of prickly pear cactus with casual strokes, kind of like using a bowie knife on fried cheese sticks, which was not unexpected.

But the very bullish, ax-like effect of this blade on hard, dense wood impressively belies its weight--less than 20 ounces! Balanced about 4 inches ahead of the bolster, it feels very businesslike in the hand, and the sculpted handle makes it a joy to work with. You can let the smooth micarta slabs rock back and forth in your gloved fist without fear of losing control, because the deeply contoured shape always feels secure.

I don't know what the next one will be like, but whatever it is, I'm convinced it will be one awesome blade. More later.

--Will




[This message has been edited by WILL YORK (edited 12-06-2000).]
 
Will,

EL MACHO!! VIVA EL MACHO!

A machete, made by Mr. Hossom, in CPM3V.

Wow.

The possibilities are endless. Especially if you have some SERIOUS weeds in the backyard.

Anyway, thanks for the review. And happy whacking to you!
 
Will,

Nice review/update. "El Macho" sounds muy good. Did you and Jerry discuss how much a blade like that would cost? I have heard nothing but great stuff about Mr Hossom and I have been really impressed with his testing to find out the perfect grind/blade. If I was looking for a chopper instead of a machete, do you think that I would have to go with a thicker blade or are you completely satisfied with how it performs?

Jim McCullough
 
Great report, Will. Thanks for sharing. Like you, I definitely like where this is all heading.
smile.gif


Have you had an opportunity to simply chop your way completely through any medium sized hardwood branches (from the perpendicular) and thereby been able to compare the effectiveness of El Macho versus a standard Ontario type machete in this scenario?

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Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Will thanks for the great review. I enjoyed reading about the way you clear the trail.
What is the web site for Bronco's review of the Ontario machete?

Shawn
 
Hunter -- Depends on what you're chopping. If you're using ax-like strokes, alternating at angles and chipping through, this thing will go through good-size (4-5") trees with less effort than a hatchet, IMO. It bites better because it's thinner. You'd have to ask Jerry about price.

Bronco -- If you hit a hard branch at a perpendicular angle with an ax, you'll get the same thing you get with this machete. The branch moves away, and you leave a v-shaped nick in the branch. If you alternate strokes at angles, this blade also acts like an ax--takes nice bites and eats good chunks out of the branch, like an ax.

It's really an interesting hybrid, and for the specialized use I described it's great. For the use you describe, it just doesn't have the penetration of a "normal" machete--which is why Jerry is already working on El Macho II. ("El Nino"?) My nicknames--not Jerry's, BTW.

--Will
 
Thanks for the clarification, Will. I didn't express myself very well, but I was curious about the second scenario you addressed, much like Hunter.

With the hatchet besting performance you've witnessed when hardwood is chopped with this blade, I'd love to see Jerry make a machete with a blade that is exactly identical to yours from the choil out to a distance of say 8 or 10 inches (to cover the chopping sweetspot) and then transition to a thinner more traditional machete-like grind for the remaining 8 or 10 inches to slice completely through that springy mesquite and chaparral foliage.

If it's possible to make one blade that is capable of doing both I'm pretty sure Jerry will be the guy to figure out how to do it.
smile.gif


------------------
Semper Fi

-Bill
 
I have the prototype he made up in aluminum and I gotta tell ya....it doesnt work that hot!
frown.gif
 
just you wait - wait until I get my Millenium Claymore!!! MUWAHAHAHAAA! Cough cough.. anyways I am very happy that Jerry is experimenting with new designs - adds fresh new stuff to the lineup and doesn't get him in a rut.. then again maybe don't hear of these tigns cause I'll only want them.

Hey Mr.G! nice #2 Stilleto btw.
VIVA VIVA LA MACHO!!


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<A HREF="http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~soo/balisong/balisong.html
</A> If you play with love you will be heartbroken; if you play with knives you will [bleed]


 
One slight clarification.

If you hit a branch at even a slight angle, and the branch is supported--as it is near its base, for instance--it's gone. Anything up to two inches can be severed cleanly with one stroke if it is supported (can't move out of the way), and is struck at an angle. Limbing out a branch or sapling, for example, would be a breeze. Which, of course, is also what you'd expect with a hatchet. I really like the added reach and range this machete gives over hatchets, and elimination of the accuracy a hatchet or ax requires. Just swing away with El Macho, and stuff will split and fall.

Bill -- Your idea of putting multiple grinds on one blade sounds very intriguing. Talk about a combo edge! I like it.

To all, thanks for your kind remarks. It was my pleasure and privilege to review Jerry's creation. Thanks again, Jerry!

--Will
 
Thanks for the reply Will. Maybe you could do another review after you have had it for a while and really get to know it. Sometimes over time, your initial impressions change. I know I wouldn't be the only one who would be interested.
Jerry- That sounds like a hell of a blade. Maybe you could jump in here and put Tom in his place and also answer some questions.
smile.gif


Jim McCullough
 
Tom is always in his place. I sent him the aluminum version so he wouldn't cut himself when he played with it.
smile.gif


Will, thanks for the positive remarks, but as I have said I'm not happy with this machete as a machete and the anecdotal capability as an alternative axe/hatchet is going to need some pondering. I'm not intuitively enthusiastic about a hybrid grind as Bill has mentioned. The power in a machete is in the forward 8-10" so having a chopper at the rear would give pretty weak performance.

I think a remake of this in 0.100" - 0.110" (the Ontario is about 0.110") is the answer. While lighter, it will gain speed and hence generate as much cutting force as this prototype while giving you the weed and light brush cutting we were looking for to start with.

Fact is I didn't use the full capabilities of CPM-3V in this blade and that shows in the results. Thinner, faster, sharper is the key in my opinion. In any case, we'll keep grinding until we get it right.

------------------
Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
Jerry -- You are so right about the sweet spot on this thing being forward. The most power and best penetration is realized on hits made just behind the belly at the front of the blade. And if thinning it out (and possibly flat grinding from spine to edge on top of that?) achieves a blade that will do both heavy and light chores efficiently, certainly you will have found the magic balance. I know that's what you were after when you started this experiment.

As I said, I'm delighted with the performance of El Macho. I actually auditioned several thin hatchets/axes a few years ago trying to find something that would stand up to the heavy work on mesquite. The main problem was, they have no reach, and so are useless on things like cactus. And khukuri style blades don't have the right blade position to split the forks--the tip of the blade has to fall behind and below the subject material before contact, which is often not possible on a fork. In my mind, El Macho is the perfect answer to that problem, and in combination with a weed hook for clearing out lighter stuff at the ground, will make a wonderful instrument for the kind of heavy clearing that jeep trails need at least once a year down here. Now if you can actually get the blade down to a thinness that will go through the light stuff as well, THAT will be amazing.

Thank you again for providing me with such a tool. When I first started talking with you about machetes a year ago, I had the feeling that with your sword-building background and knowledge of 3V, you were the man who could get the most out of such a blade. You've answered that beyond my best expectations already.

I do find myself wishing I could convince you of how very real the value of this creation is, though. If you never achieve a better chopping tool than "El Macho", I'd still be very satisfied.

--Will
 
Will :

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">For slashing through light brush, foliage and weeds, this edge/blade profile is not functional</font>

What is the height of the edge grind? What is the edge thickness at 3/4, 1/2 and 1/4 height? How thick is this vegetation as compared to the height of the edge grind?

Unless the vegetation is significantly thicker than the height of the edge bevel it will never see anything past that so the stock thickness of the blade doesn't influence the cutting ability at all. The latter assumes of course that you can move the blade at your optimum speed.

If you are having problems with penetration lower the bevel curvature and thus increase the height and acuteness. I have two Barteaux with very high grinds. The 12" one has a very flat convex bevel about a 1/4" high and roughly 10 degrees. The 18" one is over 3/8" high and about 7 degrees.

They will easily handle light vegetation but will get damaged on harder woods. The 18" one a lot, its not functional at all on hard woods with that edge profile. But the steel is fairly soft and I severely doubt it has a Paul Bos quality heat treat.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 12-07-2000).]
 
Cliff--

As Jerry explained to me, this blade is not "ground" at all, in the conventional sense. The blade thickness at the top of the edge bevel is the full thickness--about 1/8", which means that if the blade were flat ground from the spine to the edge with a normal primary grind angle, the apparent edge bevel would be reduced in width, because the flat grind would transect it nearer the edge.

Jerry considered playing more with the edge geometry on this one, i.e. thinning it out, but decided to go to another blade altogether and take it down to a thinner blank before applying the edge.

I suppose one reason he was forced into that decision was that I really did flatly refuse to surrender El Macho! I'll happily concede that a better blade might well be forthcoming on the next try, but I do NOT want anyone experimenting further on this one. Besides its splitting capabilities, I find that it is very hard to make this blade bind, even though it is only 1/8" thick, and I don't want to mess with that quality--hence my decision to cloister the blade from all who have designs on removing more of it with a belt grinder.
smile.gif


--Will
 
Will :

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">this blade is not "ground" at all, in the conventional sense.</font>

It basically has the thinnest primary grind you can get, 0 degree primary bevel. Unless you want to go negative, which is rare but seen on some traditional Malyasian blades. My question about the grind was concerning the edge profile. I should have been clearer.


<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">if the blade were flat ground from the spine to the edge with a normal primary grind angle, the apparent edge bevel would be reduced in width, because the flat grind would transect it nearer the edge.</font>

Yes, and this is a good thing in regards to cutting ability because the edge is the thickest part of the knife (angle wise) and thus its minimization increases cutting ability. However it also reduces durability rather quickly.

You need to have enough support behind the edge to ensure that it doesn't break apart. Even a thick edge can be damaged if the primary grind is too acute and removes too much metal. You could put a 35 degree bevel on a machete and have it break apart if the metal behind it was 0.01" thick.

Phil Wilson has made some large blades with positive primary grinds. One was a large piece of 420V. 1/8" stock, around 11-12" long with a full distal taper and his regular edge geometry. It was meant to be a large fillet blade I think, however I would be very curious about the cutting ability of a similar blade with a slightly different profile (wider without the point taper), not in 420V though. He also worked with 3V with a bowie-like profile (using the term loosely) but with his usual edge grind. Would have loved to have worked with that.

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 12-07-2000).]
 
The reason the blade does not bind is that the edge shape is parabolic, therefore there is theoretically only a single point (line) of contact along the edge. The width of the edge grind is about 1/2", somewhat less in front of the belly.

------------------
Jerry Hossom
www.hossom.com
 
For light material like grasses and brush, a thin fast blade is the way to go. The momentum of a heavy blade does you no good if the target offers no resistance to acceleration (is low mass and loose constraint). I've got a Mexican machete that has about a 24" blade that is 2.5" wide and .080" thick. This whips through light brush. Thicker hardwoods cut best if you angle your cut towards the trunk and use a .10" thick blade.
 
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