How About some Buyer Input

C

COAL CREEK FORGE

Joined
Mar 7, 2008
Messages
1,328
EveryBody's input is more than welcome for this topic if your a Hawk-Aholic
With today's economy the way it is and import's constantly flooding the U.S.A. What would you expect from a U.S.manufacture'er with Quality and cost's being 2 of the most important factor's at the top of the list-but what about style's and function of hawk's,without the head ache's of having to Mod them.
I've got a few idea's floating around upstair's and if my gut instinct is right it tell's me to go for it.

Your input can be the deciding factor on whether it happen's or not
 
Personally I hope you aren't considering going mass production, your hawks are all such Gems, it would be a shame if they became mass produced gems....did I just say that?

I don't want to sound like a downer but when someone buys a hawk from a fine Smith like yourself, they know what they're getting is a top notch, one of a kind hand made tomahawk, I personally would hate to see you turn mass production. Even when you were doing your jack hammer bit hawks, they were all made the same but each one had it's own odds and ends that made it stand out from the rest; I think that would diminish if you went production...if that is even what you're talking about.

But what I would want out of a new production hawk is quality, appearance and something different, the're no production hawks like your roger's rangers and your wicked spikes.
 
hmmmm.

that's a lot to think abuot, and to answer seriously.

i'd say go with your gut, brother.

vec
 
COAL CREEK FORGE said:
EveryBody's input is more than welcome for this topic if your a Hawk-Aholic
With today's economy the way it is and import's constantly flooding the U.S.A. What would you expect from a U.S.manufacture'er with Quality and cost's being 2 of the most important factor's at the top of the list-but what about style's and function of hawk's,without the head ache's of having to Mod them.
I've got a few idea's floating around upstair's and if my gut instinct is right it tell's me to go for it.

Your input can be the deciding factor on whether it happen's or not
Click to expand...

I probably don't speak for a lot of people (and most will likely tell me to go to hell), but I've always been willing to pay a little extra for something I know is at least reasonable in compensating the workers and has a sincere sense of pride taken in it's creation AND distribution. I buy Cold Steel hawks, I'd love if there were more readily available options that were of a higher quality even if it cost a bit extra. I'm rather traditional at heart when it comes to money, I prefer cash and not getting caught up in debt, if I don't have it I don't spend it. Unfortunately the best way to get a top quality product is to go online which involves a credit card (or a payment service that lets me use those fill-yourself giftcards, but the gift cards sometimes have payment limits where you can only transfer so much at a time on a single card).

As for what I would like in a product, something with a simple theme like the Cold Steel line has; a small variety of heads in different shapes and sizes, you can select the length of the haft, and a matching sheath. Make it basic so that it's easily customizable (no set-screw hole, that thing upsets me because I'm OCD and desire symmetry). I like the idea of a uniform eye size, which unfortunately isn't always the case with a cold steel hawk. Basically if it's a mass market model, I like the idea that it's well rounded but can be fixed up by the user after purchase. Preferably pre-treated to prevent rust (and none of that cheap Chinese lead paint).

I also like when there's a network of people that can be incorporated into the process, to help expand from a basic model to a more elaborate order, like choosing a higher grade of steel for construction workers, emergency response, police, and military uses, a go to group for making sheaths that can be mounted to any number of things (tactical vests, trucks, seats, horses, concealing rigs, etc.). I understand these options are available already if you look (and many of these can be found here), but the idea of getting together a group of people to combine their knowledge into a mutually benefiting crew has numerous benefits for both the workers and the customers. Basically a beginner and experts catalog that takes you from simple setups to full on custom jobs without the hassle of creating a line of communication between people who've no experience with each other (or inclination to work with each other). A cutlery co-op of sorts, really.

That's just my humble idea about a business plan though.
 
Made in the U.S.A. to me is very important. Although I do stray at times.
I like to see a good makers touch mark on a piece. Hand made is ideal. And for a maker to have a presents on the forums like you do is also good. As for style and design my favorite is the LaGana VTAC. That is what makes up the majority of my collection.
 
Well, I'll tell you my biggest gripes, how's that?

1.) Unwillingness to use a good spring steel like 5160
2.) Unwillingness to use anything but a tear-drop shaped eye
3.) Unwillingness to provide anything but a 19" or shorter haft.

When buying a custom I know, by the nature of the thing, it's going to cost more.
On the other hand, if I'm paying for a custom, I do want it my way.

I think that's the crux of the issue with a lot of folks, and the reason CS hawks are so popular -- they're easy to modify into what you really want.
 
I am not sure what Ideas I can throw into the mix. I like the look of the war hawk. I would like to see one with the splitter a little longer- like a fat stubby spike with the Sharp angle on it's face. As if the splitter was an extension of the eye at full width down to the point.

As far as production- I don't see your shop going mass production. Maybe an intern or two to learn your craft and do some of the grunt work.

Spill your ideas...

The PeeWee is still the boy's prize posession. He had it hidden under his pillow two nights ago. Bradley
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Well, I'll tell you my biggest gripes, how's that?

1.) Unwillingness to use a good spring steel like 5160
2.) Unwillingness to use anything but a tear-drop shaped eye
3.) Unwillingness to provide anything but a 19" or shorter haft.

When buying a custom I know, by the nature of the thing, it's going to cost more.
On the other hand, if I'm paying for a custom, I do want it my way.

I think that's the crux of the issue with a lot of folks, and the reason CS hawks are so popular -- they're easy to modify into what you really want.
Click to expand...

exactly....

I hate this in the hawk world and I hate it in the gun world...If I am willing to pay it....and if the product doesnt damage your name....make it for me...you will get money...
 
ElSitherino said:
....

A cutlery co-op of sorts, really.

That's just my humble idea about a business plan though.
Click to expand...

a few of us have been working on such a thing behind the scenes.

hawk makers like coal creek forge will be sorely missed when they are no longer avaialble (don't bite the dust, brother - no loose women and fast cars now - LOL).

i'm hoping that the new tools i am setting up in the shop will let me do fast turn-arounds for composite-hafted products for makers like coal creek forge and others.

we have alot to do still.

wish us luck.

........

i have alot of freinds all over the world, so Made in the USA doesn't make me feel all shiny and happy inside like it once did, especially since a lot of the money of selling foreign product involves a lot of domestic work and persuant mark-up in dollars. i won't go into econiomic debates, but a lot of folks don't understand the dynamics going on.

money is one thing, but QUALITY IN VOLUME is another.

that said - there is still no one like an American IMHO to show folks around the world how it is done IMHO - especially when large volumes of product need to be consistently good.


i hope that lasts.


coal creek forge seems to be giving that idea a lot of weight.

good job, brother. i'd love to do some collaboiration wiht coal creek forge when i am settled, if you are willing and able.

press on.

vec
 
"Unwillingness to use anything but a tear-drop shaped eye"

I agree, my preference is to round slightly widened eyes. My main thrower is build this way and the haft Never gets loose.

Regards

Robin
 
vector001 said:
a few of us have been working on such a thing behind the scenes.

hawk makers like coal creek forge will be sorely missed when they are no longer avaialble (don't bite the dust, brother - no loose women and fast cars now - LOL).

i'm hoping that the new tools i am setting up in the shop will let me do fast turn-arounds for composite-hafted products for makers like coal creek forge and others.

we have alot to do still.

wish us luck.
Click to expand...
Excellent to hear. I'm definitely a fan of community style work groups, as a lot of people with a special focus on a particular craft can focus their gift into a combined effort and create a quality product. I plan to utilize this process with some friends in my woodworking pursuits after I get out of the service and get myself some woodland ranchspace in Colorado. I'd love nothing more than to get myself a Coal Creek Forge workhorse hawk with one of those nice composite hafts (wood grain pattern, which I thought looked absolutely lovely :D), I think it'd be a great all-around tool for clearing brush while moving my cattle and rough-shaping some furniture.

I think there's a lot of options out there for reaching a larger base and I wish all of you guys the best of luck in your endeavors. What you do is nothing short of art.
 
My father used to say to not overload your wagon and depending on what context he uded it in it could meen several things.He would say you cant just lower your head and charge in.Plan your work and work your plan.Just some thoughts and advice I still utilize today.I am a third generaton 15 year boilermaker member of lu453 Knoxville,TN. I listened to the advice of my Father and other old hats like him.With the desire to do well ,their advice and hard work I was a rigging foreman by my late twenties,general foreman on new constuction by 32 and a superintendent for a partner for T.V.A by 34.I have recently went back to my tools by choice.I got discouraged with todays work ethic and I still like to work with my hands weld,and especially heavy rigging.That being said I find it hard to give a fellar like you advice.I dont know you personally but after watchin your you tube videos I have made judgment.You sir remind me of them old hats that I looked up to and looked to for advice however I will throw my two cents in for what its worth.If mass production is what we are talking about here and if it isn't I apologize for the lengthy post.I feel that it would lack the soul that your hands or any craftsman puts into his or her work.I dont own any of your work as of yet but fully intend to some day.I would be a fan if that is the path you choose and that is what we are talking about just not as big a fan as i would be of something you made personally.If that be the path you choose MADE IN THE U.S.A seems to stll be a winner.I have products made over seas because there is nothing else comparable,but buy U.S. when i can.In the end the choice is ultimately yours....Me I will remain a future consumer and a fan....TIP
 
mct453 said:
My father used to say to not overload your wagon and depending on what context he uded it in it could meen several things.He would say you cant just lower your head and charge in.Plan your work and work your plan.Just some thoughts and advice I still utilize today.I am a third generaton 15 year boilermaker member of lu453 Knoxville,TN. I listened to the advice of my Father and other old hats like him.With the desire to do well ,their advice and hard work I was a rigging foreman by my late twenties,general foreman on new constuction by 32 and a superintendent for a partner for T.V.A by 34.I have recently went back to my tools by choice.I got discouraged with todays work ethic and I still like to work with my hands weld,and especially heavy rigging.That being said I find it hard to give a fellar like you advice.I dont know you personally but after watchin your you tube videos I have made judgment.You sir remind me of them old hats that I looked up to and looked to for advice however I will throw my two cents in for what its worth.If mass production is what we are talking about here and if it isn't I apologize for the lengthy post.I feel that it would lack the soul that your hands or any craftsman puts into his or her work.I dont own any of your work as of yet but fully intend to some day.I would be a fan if that is the path you choose and that is what we are talking about just not as big a fan as i would be of something you made personally.If that be the path you choose MADE IN THE U.S.A seems to stll be a winner.I have products made over seas because there is nothing else comparable,but buy U.S. when i can.In the end the choice is ultimately yours....Me I will remain a future consumer and a fan....TIP
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Your Old Hat's taught you well and there is alot of truth in what they have passed on to you,use that wisdom wisely,on the other side of the coin is a market that has not even been taped yet and i would not mass produce the work's that i do now,they would still be crafted the same way i do everyday-remember the original post when i said i had idea's floating around upstair's-these idea's are a whole lot different from what i do now,but would enter into a whole new market of buyer's
 
Then I hope you do well Mister Steve...Once again my tunnel vision kicked in.I reread the post.I see where you are comin from now.I gotta hop over to e-bay my blackberry just told me I have been outbid on auction that ends tommorrow..Take care..TIP
 
There seems to be three basic uses for hawks- recreational throwing, fighting/self defense, and bushcrafting. Most designs are at least moderately functional in all three, which is why a simple tomahawk makes such a great tool.

For a thrower: HB Forge Shawnee style-your basic 3.5-4 inch bit, thin head, slightly convexed grind with a rounded eye, no poll. 19 inch hickory teardrop profile haft.

For a fighter: prominant belly (that is sharpened to a slicing edge, if at all possible-hollow ground, even, maybe...) with a basic 3.5-4 inch edge, and a STRAIGHT chisel ground poll. I never really understood these hammer claw style polls, I guess they're contoured along a wide strike path? I'd just as soon take a simple arrow head shaped claw about 2 inches long and wide enough to be durable but not too thick and heavy to throw off the balance. The alternative is a rifleman's hawk style fighting poll. 23-24 inch hickory haft with teardrop shape.

For a bushcrafter... a flat striking surface on the back of the eye for hammering and a frontier hawk style head.

Now, as far as things like battle axes and field axes...
For field axes, a 2 pound head with a 32 inch haft, both single and double bit, the single bit with a square striking surface on the back. Makes life easy when you're beating on old stumps for fatwood or fishing grubs, or limbing dry dead branches.
Battle axes... well... there are so many amazing designs... I'd like to see a Coal Creek Viking Battle Axe though :D

I'd also like to see a functional mini-hawk-something short and light balanced specifically for throwing. Imagine a poll-less trail hawk minus about an inch on the length of the head, and a haft just long enough to balance it out for throwing. The idea is for a disposable combat thrower. In today's modern combat it'd probably be considered fodder for mall ninjas but I can just imagine a couple of Comanches running around with 3-4 of these little babies on their belts cranking them out faster than Custer can work his levergun. Another design I've been working on for my own purposes is what I call an "ulu on a stick". Basically a short belt axe with a full metal tang, wooden scales running the length of it, creating a useable chopper and useable ulu at the same time. Hawk thickness for the head, ulu shape and a thin convex grind-say 30 degrees inclusive, tops. Something that can be utilized as both a very classy looking slicer and food prep tool, and for light camp limbing. I drew a concept up somewheres, I'll try to find it.
 
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PayetteRucker said:
There seems to be three basic uses for hawks- recreational throwing, fighting/self defense, and bushcrafting. Most designs are at least moderately functional in all three, which is why a simple tomahawk makes such a great tool.

For a thrower: HB Forge Shawnee style-your basic 3.5-4 inch bit, thin head, slightly convexed grind with a rounded eye, no poll. 19 inch hickory teardrop profile haft.

For a fighter: prominant belly (that is sharpened to a slicing edge, if at all possible-hollow ground, even, maybe...) with a basic 3.5-4 inch edge, and a STRAIGHT chisel ground poll. I never really understood these hammer claw style polls, I guess they're contoured along a wide strike path? I'd just as soon take a simple arrow head shaped claw about 2 inches long and wide enough to be durable but not too thick and heavy to throw off the balance. The alternative is a rifleman's hawk style fighting poll. 23-24 inch hickory haft with teardrop shape.

For a bushcrafter... a flat striking surface on the back of the eye for hammering and a frontier hawk style head.

Now, as far as things like battle axes and field axes...
For field axes, a 2 pound head with a 32 inch haft, both single and double bit, the single bit with a square striking surface on the back. Makes life easy when you're beating on old stumps for fatwood or fishing grubs, or limbing dry dead branches.
Battle axes... well... there are so many amazing designs... I'd like to see a Coal Creek Viking Battle Axe though :D
I'd also like to see a functional mini-hawk-something short and light balanced specifically for throwing. Imagine a poll-less trail hawk minus about an inch on the length of the head, and a haft just long enough to balance it out for throwing. The idea is for a disposable combat thrower. In today's modern combat it'd probably be considered fodder for mall ninjas but I can just imagine a couple of Comanches running around with 3-4 of these little babies on their belts cranking them out faster than Custer can work his levergun. Another design I've been working on for my own purposes is what I call an "ulu on a stick". Basically a short belt axe with a full metal tang, wooden scales running the length of it, creating a useable chopper and useable ulu at the same time. Hawk thickness for the head, ulu shape and a thin convex grind-say 30 degrees inclusive, tops. Something that can be utilized as both a very classy looking slicer and food prep tool, and for light camp limbing. I drew a concept up somewheres, I'll try to find it.
Click to expand...
Loose Lip's sink ship's,never know what guest may be just lurking to snatch up another one's idea to put it into production
 
Try out whatever it is that your thinking of doing. If you never do it, you may regret not ever trying it. I read a saying somewhere that said, "Who dares wins". Good luck!
 
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Just go for it Steve. You're a great smith with well honed instincts. I recall the perfect Hudsons Bay ax you whipped off from a picture on ebay. That told me a Lot about your skills.

Take care good buddy. ;-)

Best regards

Robin
 
Pipeman said:
Just go for it Steve. You're a great smith with well honed instincts. I recall the perfect Hudsons Bay ax you whipped off from a picture on ebay. That told me a Lot about your skills.

Take care good buddy. ;-)

Best regards

Robin
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I need to forge a couple of those up,ain't forged one since sidecutter bought the last one,now you wanna talk about fun,those thing are FUN
 
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