How do I touch up a Sashimi Hocho?

L

LJK

Joined
Dec 6, 2004
Messages
156
I'm comfortable at sharping most western type knives (thanks to this fourm). I use sharpmaker and a loaded strop for most touch ups. I have a HF belt sander for reprofiling etc. I recently started useing water stones. 800 and 4k King. My question is how to touch up a single bevel Sashimi Hocho. Its a high dollar knife. My friend has used it lightly for a few years. Its never been sharpened, and I do not want to screw it up. Any advice is welcome. Thanks.
 
Better make sure your waterstones are dead flat before sharpening each side (flatten them between sides) or else you'll ruin your knife. Double-edged knives are forgiving; yanagiba/sashimi-bocho knives, they don't suffer fools or waterstones that aren't dead flat. King brand waterstones tend to dish quickly, so flattening between sides is very important. From there, it's match the bevel to the stone, raise a burr along the entire edge, FLATTEN YOUR WATERSTONE, lay the non-bevelled side flat against the stone and lightly pull it lenghtwise across the stone to deburr. Use both the 800 and 4000 grit stones this time and then you can use just the 4000 grit stone most of the time from there on out. Just don't forget to flatten your waterstones.

Christmas is coming. Your friend could probably stand getting those same two waterstones, a stone fixer (to quickly flatten the waterstones, after all), and a sharpening DVD. If your friend is celebrating Chanukkah, hurry because there are only a few days left.
 
LJK said:
I'm comfortable at sharping most western type knives (thanks to this fourm). I use sharpmaker and a loaded strop for most touch ups. I have a HF belt sander for reprofiling etc. I recently started useing water stones. 800 and 4k King. My question is how to touch up a single bevel Sashimi Hocho. Its a high dollar knife. My friend has used it lightly for a few years. Its never been sharpened, and I do not want to screw it up. Any advice is welcome. Thanks.
Click to expand...

In addition to thombrogan, I may just say

Single bevel is exactly to make sharpening high angle edge easy and pleasant. You just put knife flat on the waterstone only on the side opposite to bevel and move it genetly. So this way you will keep angle smith made this knife for.

Do not sharpen it usual way! Otherwise you just turn it to regular edged knife.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
if it's a high dollar knife and you want it done right...send it to japaneseknifesharpening.com .....dave sharpens alot of single bevelled japanese knives and knows how to fix them.....thom has it summed up if you want to try it yourself.....just remember to check if the knife is straight....single bevelled knives tend to twist over time......ryan
 
Thanks for the help. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

1) Flatten 800 stone.
2) Match bevel exsisting knife bevel and raise burr on whole blade.
3) Flatten stone again.
4) Swipe flat blade side on 800 stone to remove burr.
5) Flatten 4k stone.
6) Match bevel raise burr.
7) Flatten 4k stone.
8) Swipe flat side of blade to remove burr.
9) Repeat steps 5 to 8 if needed.
No stropping at all? Also, is it true to never use a steel on this type of knife? Thanks again.
 
Points 1 through 9 are correct. Leather strops have a lot of give, so they can screw things up for these types of knives. Stropping on paper over glass or some other unyielding is okay. Steeling is a personal decision, but please keep in mind that most sashime bocho and yanagi knives have very hard and thin edges with very little "give" to them. It's very easy to put hundreds of little chips in the edge in one swipe if you're not careful.
 
Thanks everyone for your advice. I was thinking of adding a higher grit polishing stone. Useing search it seems beginners are better served with softer stones? More forgiving of inconsistant angle? Under 100.00 what one would you recommend? (I have 800 and 4K King now)
 
LJK said:
Thanks everyone for your advice. I was thinking of adding a higher grit polishing stone. Useing search it seems beginners are better served with softer stones? More forgiving of inconsistant angle? Under 100.00 what one would you recommend? (I have 800 and 4K King now)
Click to expand...

In this case you should not keep any angle, but lay it flat on the stone.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Vassili:
Are you recommending to not sharpen the bevel side at all? Only the flat side? And what finishing stone do you use?
 
On single bevel japanese kitchen knives the proper method is to lay the entire sharpened bevel onto the stone face. The adhesion from the water between the stone and knife makes it relatively easy to keep it at the proper angle.
 
yoda4561 said:
On single bevel japanese kitchen knives the proper method is to lay the entire sharpened bevel onto the stone face. The adhesion from the water between the stone and knife makes it relatively easy to keep it at the proper angle.
Click to expand...

Yes and this is the reason why they have single bevel is to have mainainable high angle edge. This is why Yanagiba has single bevel and Ajikiri or Santoku for example has normal double bevels.

On my Yanagiba (from Kukihide cuttlery shop in Yoohama made by Minomoto Akitada) there is no any separate "edge" or "seconday bevel" and so it make this highest angle to make exclusive cut.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I am sharpeing my Yanagiba now.

I see that bevel side does not really suited for flat sharpening - it is pretty clear when I started this. As well as it is pretty clear that other side meant to be sharpened flat - it kind of concave and so stone sharpens about 1-2 mm at each side. Bevel, on the other hand is not ideally flat which was exposed right away, when I start sharpening.

I remember I was told in Kukihide sharpen it from one side only - I did this but was not able to whittle hair (I ended at 6000 waterstone - King). So I decide to try sharpen bevel, ut I try to do this flat to have super small angle as I believe it suppose to be, and also I afraid to ruin this possibility by "deurring" it.

I'll report results when I finish.

Thnaks, Vassili.
 
I gave it a try on Green rouge on leather and it starts whittling hair - I guess I just need finer waterstone to compete Green Rouge. It whittling hair only at the front half of the blade.

On polished and cleaned bevel I can clearly see, that it is not ideally flat and that edge on bevel side is not ideal too - on the back half of the blade. With water-stone when it is all in dirt it is hard to control this thing, also I did not see burr really - I guess waterstone is too soft and Sirogamy is too hard to form burr.

Tomorrow I'll fix-flatten bevel with 200 water-stone - again sharpening it flat and then after edge will be fixed this way continue with usual Green Rouge and diamonds on leather.

I think I should not use my usual diamonds - it will cheap this fine high angle edge.

I believe it suppose not to have secondary bevel and I try to sharpen it this way.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Check out one of Lee's (Louisiana cook)pics of a Japanese knife http://www.knifeforums.com/uploads/1153010135-Front_bevel1.JPG

You have the spine which may taper a bit towards the edge, then you have a wide bevel (this is where you can put a nice cosmetic polish or mist finish), then a smaller, steeper edge bevel.

Lay the knife flat on that wide bevel, then put your fingers on the back near the edge so it rocks up onto the narrow edge bevel (you can feel when it does this, and if you are using a good clay stone, you will see water welling up out of the stone under the edge when the narrow bevel goes flat on the stone). Do a back and forth push pull stroke walking you fingers down the blade as you finish sharpening each section of the blade leaving a bit of overlap (i.e. maybe finish one 2" section near the heel, then slide 1.5" toward the tip for the next 2" section), or some people develop a graceful sweep starting near the heel at the top of the stone and finishing near the tip by the time they get to the bottom of the stone (I'm not that graceful so generally take it in sections). Once you get a nice even burr sticking up on the back, flip the knife over flat side flat on the stone and do a few light strokes to cut off the burr (generally, I do the back on a fine grit stone even if I'm using a coarser stone on the bevel). The back is generally concave so you won't have to do as much grinding on the back as you'd think since only a thin rim alone the spine and edge actually touches the stone... See another of Lee's nice photos: http://www.knifeforums.com/uploads/1153010095-back_polish2.JPG (some more pics in his original thread here: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/772696/ )

The back side is concave
 
This is Deba on the picture

http://www.knifeforums.com/uploads/1...ont_bevel1.JPG

not Yanagiba (Sashimi Hocho).

Akitada-Yanagiba-06.jpg


Akitada-Yanagiba-03.jpg


As I undertand Yanagiba does not has secondary bevel because it suppose to be sharpest.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Amazing. Thanks so much again everyone. I do not have this knife yet so I'm not sure if it has second edge bevel or not. I handled it once and did not notice. :o I have some time so I will do my homework, go slow, and get it right. I must say I've become absolutely fascinated with Japanese knives and water stones. Must be all that good green tea I've been drinking ;)
 
I eliminated shining line with 220 Norton waterstone, which I had on the back half of the bevel side. Because it was only on the half of the edge and was relatively easy to get rid of I think that was just dull edge, not really secondary bevel for sure. However it may be sign of single swipe.

I think that originally it meant to sharpen only on one side opposite to single bevel which is concave slightly. I am too picky and like edge to whittle hair, but only sharpening one side probably will be enough for kitchen works.

I like to sharpen it to hair whittling state.

BTW I read carefully this:
1) Flatten 800 stone.
2) Match bevel exsisting knife bevel and raise burr on whole blade.
3) Flatten stone again.
4) Swipe flat blade side on 800 stone to remove burr.

Step 2 is wrong you not suppose to sharpen on bevel side only on concave-flat side. On step 2 you sharpen concave side - this is why it is concave. I think that it will be OK to swipe-flat bevel side once, but flat not with angle, at least for Yanagiba or Sashimi hocho.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top