How long before Sharpmaker rods are loaded?

D

DainBramage

Joined
Nov 13, 2007
Messages
95
On the video that comes with the Sharpmaker, they guy said that when the blade starts feeling slick (I think that was the word he used) on the rods, that was a sign that they were loaded up with metal shavings and should be turned or cleaned, since a loaded rod can't effectively do what it's supposed to do. But it seems to me that I start getting that slick feeling pretty quickly. So I'm wondering if I'm imagining "slickness"?? I read someone in another post on coarser rods from Congress say that one didn't feel or sound as "crunchy" as another... I'm definitely not getting a whole lot of crunch!! I'm sure it would depend on lots of factors, but about how many strokes would you think it might typically take before the rod gets loaded up? Or taking a different tack... how "crunchy" should the medium and fine rods (corners and flats) feel? As you get closer to having a good edge, will it feel "slicker"?

Also, I've read many posts saying that people often sharpen one way, but use a Sharpmaker for "touch-ups". What exactly does that mean? Would that be in place of using a steel? I have enough room that I could leave my Sharpmaker set up all the time... would it make sense (or NOT make sense) to do a couple light strokes on the fine rod before a (home) cooking session?

Thanks!!
 
If you're using the white rods, you can see when they're ready for turning or washing. You'll see grey/silver streaks down the rods and they'll feel like they've been greased. The corners are going to load up a little faster than the flats. They grey rods are harder to see, but you'll get a feeling of slipping down the rod instead of scraping down the rod.

I wash my rods every time I'm through using them because I like the bite to be as consistent as possible. Also, I usually do several knives each time I set up the Sharpmaker, so it does get fairly heavy use. How many strokes it takes to load up a rod depends partly on the kind of steel in your blade and the amount of pressure you use when you sharpen your knife. I would suggest that you give your rods a good cleaning, let them dry, and then get used to how your blades feel on clean, dry rods. Then you'll have a pretty good idea of how the rods should feel when they're biting properly.

I don't steel my knives. I use the fine & U/F Sharpmaker rods to do touch ups on my knives at least weekly, sometimes more often. That keeps me from having to do much actual "sharpening" where I'm removing more metal than touch ups remove. I use very light strokes and only enough to get the edge back. This is more about straightening and polishing an edge than actually creating a new edge by removing metal. For cooking knives, you might want to get a set of the U/F rods and leave them set up for quick topuch ups before using a kitchen knife.

If I want to really sharpen a knife or change an edge bevel, I set my Edge Pro. It's much faster at that kind of work than the Sharpmaker. This kind of sharpening will remove more steel, but that's necessary if you want to remove chips or change an edge bevel.
 
I just keep a dry Mr. Clean Magic Eraser beside the SM and wipe the rods down whenever I think they need it. It seems to get most of the metal filings out and only takes a few seconds.

L. Richard
 
I would not use one of the flats and corners for no more than 20-30 strokes. So I get 3 standard Sharpmaker procedures as described in the video, or three knives out of the rods, before I scrub them with some Ajax and 3M scouring pads. I think, important is to understand, that the rods don't have to look like new, so you don't need to spend hours scrubbing them.
 
To know when to clean your Sharpmaker, you just need to spend time using it. Eventually you will be able to tell when the rods are becoming slick and need to be cleaned. I prefer to clean my rods with Bar Keeper's Friend and Heavy Duty 3M scouring pads. I find that Bar Keeper's Friend takes less effort to get the rods clean. Good luck with you new Sharpmaker.
 
dalefuller said:
I don't steel my knives. I use the fine & U/F Sharpmaker rods to do touch ups on my knives at least weekly, sometimes more often. That keeps me from having to do much actual "sharpening" where I'm removing more metal than touch ups remove. I use very light strokes and only enough to get the edge back. This is more about straightening and polishing an edge than actually creating a new edge by removing metal. For cooking knives, you might want to get a set of the U/F rods and leave them set up for quick topuch ups before using a kitchen knife.
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How do you decide it's time? I had gotten into the habit of a few light passes over a diamond oval steel (maybe too aggressive?) before each use... would it be advisable to do that on the fine rods each time instead (UF once I get them), or is that too much?

dalefuller said:
I wash my rods every time I'm through using them because I like the bite to be as consistent as possible. Also, I usually do several knives each time I set up the Sharpmaker, so it does get fairly heavy use. How many strokes it takes to load up a rod depends partly on the kind of steel in your blade and the amount of pressure you use when you sharpen your knife. I would suggest that you give your rods a good cleaning, let them dry, and then get used to how your blades feel on clean, dry rods. Then you'll have a pretty good idea of how the rods should feel when they're biting properly.
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HoB said:
I would not use one of the flats and corners for no more than 20-30 strokes. So I get 3 standard Sharpmaker procedures as described in the video, or three knives out of the rods, before I scrub them with some Ajax and 3M scouring pads. I think, important is to understand, that the rods don't have to look like new, so you don't need to spend hours scrubbing them.
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So if you are sharpening a knife for the first time, you may need to turn (and possibly clean) the rods several times, right? Would it be safe to say that if you are using light to medium pressure, a flat or corner would almost certainly be loaded up after say, 50 strokes? I'm not trying to get an exact number here, I'm just wondering if I'm either imagining the slickness, or I'm using too much pressure, or something else. In the video, it sure looks and sounds like Sal is using a pretty fair amount of pressure when he's working on that first knife.
 
The Sharpmaker rods do load up quickly; you're not imagining the slickness. I probably only do 10-15 strokes on an individual rod before turning it to use another surface.

If you're trying to reprofile an edge, or sharpen a really dull knife for the first time, you may need to clean the medium (brown) rods at least once or twice during the job.
 
Sal is using 3 lbs, that is more than you might think. Lean a small kitchen scale against the rods. You might be surprised. Pushing down it is not much but pushing sideways it is quite a bit.

Use Jeff's technique. The pressure depends on what you want to achieve. When you have lots to remove, use pressure and may be the corners, when the edge is established and you are in the final honing stages use very light pressure.

Yes, 50 stroke I would say is the absolute maximum, but just as coolcrow said, it is best to get some feel for it. Just take a lot of strokes (you are not going to do any damage, it is just going to take more time and will be less efficient, but the extra strokes are well spend as "tuition") and then clean them well and see how the rods feel different. They will lose their "bite" in comparison with freshly cleaned rods. The fine rods load up more quickly.
 
DainBramage said:
How do you decide it's time? I had gotten into the habit of a few light passes over a diamond oval steel (maybe too aggressive?) before each use... would it be advisable to do that on the fine rods each time instead (UF once I get them), or is that too much?
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It's more of a "feeling" than a decision. I use my EDC knives regularly enough throughout the week that they can benefit from a touch up on weekends, especially the kitchen knives. My cutting chores don't vary much, and they haven't for many years, so I have a fairly accurate feeling for how a blade cuts when it's "fresh" and how it cuts when it's got some use on it, at least for the things I usually cut.

If I'm cutting food, for instance, I like for the "objet d'cut" to give up and fall apart when it sees my kitchen knife coming its way. If I'm opening a bag of dog food, I like to slice cleanly through all the layers from one side to the other with one swipe. If I'm cutting fuzz sticks for a campfire or trimming something in the yard, I expect to have to use some pressure even with a sharp blade.

Try using the U/F rods when they come for light touch ups and see how you like them compared to the diamond steel. Diamond sharpeners can be pretty aggressive. The U/F rods will polish more than they will actually remove metal. How often you do it should depend on how the knife performs for you.

Like HoB said, I would think that 50 strokes per side is the most you'd want to do before cleaning the rods. I doubt that I ever get that high before I was and dry mine.
 
Hi

I lube my rods with teflon bicicle oil and they never load up. I wipe them clean with a bit of rag. I dressed them absolutely smooth with diamond stone and they much improved.

Regards
Frank
 
Frank Hillary said:
I lube my rods with teflon bicicle oil and they never load up. I wipe them clean with a bit of rag. I dressed them absolutely smooth with diamond stone and they much improved.
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Really?? If that works, it would sure be easier to wipe them off instead of the scouring pad/cleanser routine. But can you get the stuff off very easily in case it doesn't?!? :confused:
 
After every ten to twenty swipes I give my rods a wipe down with a rag soaked in Hoppes #9 gun cleaning solvent. You can definitely feel the difference. By twenty strokes, you can feel the stones getting slick, and the cutting action start diminish.
 
HoB said:
I would not use one of the flats and corners for no more than 20-30 strokes.
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I've never actually counted, but that sounds about right. During use I clean the rods with an ordinary ink eraser, literally takes but a few seconds. Every now and then I soak them in an acidic cleaner like Scrub Free or naval jelly for a thorough cleaning.

FWIW ... IMO Spyderco's recommendation of 3 pounds pressure is way too high, especially if sharpening on the corners of the rods. You'll achieve a much better and more durable edge using very light pressure.
 
I personally change sides by the "sound of it." Maybe my method isn't as sound as a specific storke count. When the rods are "fresh", you can really hear the grinding sound. When they start to get loaded, the sound isn't as intense and thats when you know to switch sides. Hope that helps.

Also note that I do not use the corners anymore. I seem to get better results using just the flats.
 
Dog of War said:
IMO Spyderco's recommendation of 3 pounds pressure is way too high, especially if sharpening on the corners of the rods. You'll achieve a much better and more durable edge using very light pressure.
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I totally agree for the final touch. When I wrote this, I was thinking of a situation where you have lots of work to on the Sharpmaker (more than the usual 20 strokes). I guess, because the OP was asking how often the rods had to be cleaned. For the backbevel and more work than your twenty strokes I would go to the full 3 recommended lbs. Usually, I use the Sharpmaker to touch up an edge with light and usually a lot less than 20 strokes, because I don't let my edge go that far. With those very light passes I think you can also get a bit more than 20-30 strokes out of the corners and flats.
 
Hi,

DainBramage said:
Really?? If that works, it would sure be easier to wipe them off instead of the scouring pad/cleanser routine. But can you get the stuff off very easily in case it doesn't?!? :confused:
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No worries. I go to 100 strokes per side without loading and I never have any troble ceaning my rods. Evry now and then I alos dress them lightly with a very fine diamond stone.

Cheers
Frank
 
HoB said:
I totally agree for the final touch. When I wrote this, I was thinking of a situation where you have lots of work to on the Sharpmaker (more than the usual 20 strokes). I guess, because the OP was asking how often the rods had to be cleaned. For the backbevel and more work than your twenty strokes I would go to the full 3 recommended lbs. Usually, I use the Sharpmaker to touch up an edge with light and usually a lot less than 20 strokes, because I don't let my edge go that far. With those very light passes I think you can also get a bit more than 20-30 strokes out of the corners and flats.
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Thanks, HoB. My comments weren't very thorough, and I basically agree. Though I don't use a Sharpmaker or other ceramic V-rod sharpener for anything but finish sharpening anymore, I think you're OK using more force in the earlier stages of cutting the relief/primary edge bevel, or backbeveling. However as you get close to forming a new edge apex, even if you're going to be adding a higher angled microbevel, very light pressure is IMO essential to getting a high quality edge. I'd say, as a general rule of thumb, if you're at the point of raising a burr, or getting close to it, and you're using more than a few ounces of pressure, the edge is probably being weakened. And of course the problem becomes more serious the more acute the edge angle, and the softer/less tough the steel.

FWIW (and digressing for a moment) I think this same issue of pressure has a lot to do with why so many who post here get excellent results sharpening with diamond bench stones and waterstones. Not only is the force used when sharpening spread out over a larger surface, but both these media cut aggressively without using a lot of force. There was a thread here some time ago where Cliff mentioned seeing rippling in the steel behind the edge from working a blade on a bench stone with a lot of pressure, and I think if you consider the respective contact areas when using a bench stone versus the corners of a Sharpmaker, the concern becomes obvious.

Since the Sharpmaker (not considering the diamond sleeves) removes metal very slowly compared to other media, IMO it really should be considered a finish sharpener only -- and it truly is a fine, precision tool for that purpose. But I strongly suspect that much of the problems we often see new Sharpmaker users having is due to a) frustration over how slow the Sharpmaker is for a full resharpening, let alone a significant reprofiling or changing of the primary edge and/or relief angles, and b) using excessive pressure because of that frustration, and winding up with an edge with badly damaged steel as a result.

Sorry for rambling or if I went a bit OT ... this is just part of the blade hobby I find fascinating, perhaps because it took me so long to figure out. :)

Oh, and BTW, Happy New Year!
 
Hi,

DainBramage said:
What is the name of the product you use?
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I havent got it with me (I am at work) but its a US prduct and is sold to cyclists. Comes in a black plastic botle. Will look it up in he next day or two.

The hardest stone to prevent from loading is the brown as it soaks up the oil. I also had good results with gun oil. The heavier the oil the better.

Cheers
Frank
 
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