How many of you have mastered the kerambit discipline?

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All this talk about the kerambit and the more outspoken propenents have piqued my curiousity.

Yes, I understand the history of the kerambit.

Who has mastered this discipline?
Know of anyone who has actually used one to defend themselves?
How many of the "instructors" have ever used one to defend themselves against anything other than a training dummy?
 
mikemck:

I've become a proponent for the karambit to an extent. I own several in folder and straight guise.

There will be very few masters of the karambit in the USA at this time in my opinion as the design is fairly new to the states. Given time, I think the merits of the design will be evident to some but I really do not expect them to be prevalent and in everyones hands.

As I have stated before, one who knows bladecrafts and has a background in defensive knife should be able to pick up the particular nuances needed to effectively utilize this weapon to their advantage.

I carry the journeyman karambit by blade-tech and have enough confidence in my ability to make good use of it defensively with only 20 hours or so of pratice. Many of the techniques with a straight blade can easily be transitioned to the karmabit if you so chose not to even learn the specific techniques unique to the design.

Brownie
 
Kerambit discipline? Whassat?

Hey, buy a k-bit, wave it around in front of you, twirl it on your finger. Now growl...You are a master.

It's a knife. If you are competent at reverse grip knife combat, you are adept with a k-bit. Personally, I would rather fight with a k-bit in forward grip.

Take the money you would have spent on videos and seminars and use it buy cab rides around bad neighborhoods.
 
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Kerambit: Blade of Death (A Ray Dionaldo Seminar)

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Self Defense Gear Modified M-Tech Kerambit

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I have a little bit of time with edged weapons training under my belt. I am not even close to "mastering" anything.

You could apply your questions to ANY model of edged tool/weapon and ANY instructor. What are you getting at?

I've studied with quite a few well known and extremely talented instructors. Never asked them if they've killed anyone yet. Maybe I need to recheck their qualifications before continuing further training...
 
You could apply your questions to ANY model of edged tool/weapon and ANY instructor. What are you getting at?


Excellent point, and you are of course exactly right.

What am I getting at...Well, I'm trying, in a roundabout way, hopefully without offending someone or other, to see just how much training people are thinking will enable them to effectively defend themselves with a knife. Being that the kerambit is the latest & greatest, I used that as the subject.

I personally think that beyond some rudimentary training, not much else is going to be helpful if you were to get in an actual "knife fight". I think the point of diminishing returns is reached very very quickly, in other words.

I have also done quite a bit of searching around, and I can't find where any of the more commonly mentioned "experts" on the subject have ever had an actual knife fight either.
How can you be an expert, no matter how much sparring/training/reading you do, without have real fights?
 
Here are a couple shots of a very impressive demonstration in "The Pit" at Blade this past summer:

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That's kinda what I mean.

I do not know who those two are, and I am sure they are probably well regarded, but have they ever actually used a kerambit on "the street"?
 
I've met a number of people who, though they have never been in a knife fight that I know of, I would not want to fight with a blade. Are they masters?

Close enough for me.
 
There are snipers who are masters of their craft who have never killed anyone at 1000 yds as well.

Can they, you bet.

Brownie
 
If I'm not mistaken, that's Guro Ray Dionaldo with the kerambit. I've been to one of his seminars and, like Steve H says, whether or not he's actually used his skills in combat, I definitely wouldn't want him mad at me.

mike, like you and many others, I highly regard practical application and experience. I also agree with you about "diminishing returns". I see where you're coming from and I would just say that, at some point (beyond semi-realistic sparring or further advanced training methods such as those used in Sayoc Kali), it's going to be a matter of faith. I'm willing to bet that the little training I do is going to help my chances, even if my instructors are not death match champs. :)
 
from a very simplistic standpoint, the main advantage of the kbit i can see is its difficulty of disengagement from the user.

i might get one if they make the puny-ass blades a little longer. what's so wrong with piercing the torso & hitting the vitals if necessary?? i almost wanna put a finger hole through my boxcutter & pass it off as a friggin kbit.

are they available in bladelengths more than 3 or 4 inches?
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
There are snipers who are masters of their craft who have never killed anyone at 1000 yds as well.

Can they, you bet.

Brownie

Shooting someone, from a 1000 or 100 yards, is much different than being face to face with the same person.
 
Originally posted by Sharp Phil
You could always find Ray Dionaldo, attack him with a knife, and find out for yourself. :D

It's funny you should say that, because I was thinking the same thing.:eek:

Ironically enough, that might be the only way to say for sure if training is indeed worth it or not, or if my opinion holds water.
 
It's like this.

Take UFC for example. Lots of "dojo dragons" were around for a bit, having never done anything outside their respective dojo.
They got into the octagon, and did not fare well at all, for the most part, especially right in the beginning.

Take for instance the fight where Royce Gracie easily beat Ron Van Clief " The Black Dragon".
This actually seems to be a case of two dojo dragons, but Clief is very highly regarded, inside the dojo, anyway.
The point being, although UFC is chock full of rules now, it used to be about as close as you could get to no holds barred.

So, I'm thinking, basically any fighting experience at all will translate very well to using a knife, instead of just punching someone with your fist. Practical experience, mind you.
 
Originally posted by mikemck
It's like this.

Take UFC for example. Lots of "dojo dragons" were around for a bit, having never done anything outside their respective dojo.
They got into the octagon, and did not fare well at all, for the most part, especially right in the beginning.
i predicted that randy coture would work tito ortiz like the third world.. hehe i shoulda placed some bets.
 
There is a thread of truth in your assertions...not so much about the UFC, but about knife combat in general. You probably get as much skill as you need in twenty or so hours of training, provided what you are practicing is effective. To a certain extent, knife combat is simply killing your enemy faster than he can kill you. The old rule applies, hand-to-hand combat is about 5% skill and 95% animal ferocity. But I believe there is an element of defense that can increase your chances of survival. You can learn these basic defensive principles fairly quickly, and practicing a couple hours a week will keep them sharp.

There are martial artists who are on a different plane though. I would not want to try to limit what they are capable of to what I am capable of. After all, Royce Gracie beat all those dojo dragons with what? Skill. The skill that was most appropriate to the octagon won. If there were knives in the octogon, all grappling would almost immediately cease, and knife dueling skills would dominate.

All that applies to any knife, or any combat skill, not just to the kerambit. The kerambit is just a knife, and in terms of combat styles, just a fad. Not to say it isn't useful. I am only saying that it isn't anything particulary unique. So if you want to poke fun at the kerambit masters, that's OK with me, but years of practicing effective combat skills cannot be a bad thing, and sparring against resisting opponents can teach you a lot about what is effective without getting killed.
 
I would agree with Steve here.

As a defensive knife instructor, I think 20 hours of the correct training tactics is more than sufficient for most.

The crux or problems most will encoutner after the 20 hours [ of good techniques ] will be the user not practicing what they have learned until it becomes muscle memory.

It is important to have the correct training for that scenario to work. I have trained dojo people who have years of the arts under their belts with knife/weapons training, yet have no clue about how to use a knife effectively.

Knowledge is key only if the knowledge is valid to begin with.

Brownie
 
Ray Dionaldo holds plenty of seminars in which students practice hands-on, Mike. It might be a while before there's one near you, but I'd wager it won't be forever. You might enjoy attending one. (There's one video I reviewed on the kerambit that is taken from a seminar, and the distinct sound of a karambit trainer being dropped by one of the students made me laugh at one point during the tape.)
 
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