How to harvest large animals without a gun?

D

D. Epstein

Joined
Oct 17, 1999
Messages
98
If someone were to wind up in this situation, what techniques can be used to kill deer (antelope, moose, black bear)without projectile weapons (gun or bow)? Our primitive ancestors did it, so I know it's possible, but how is it done?

Is this something that the experts here have done?

BTW, I think living on squirrels and jays is just slow starvation, so that's why I ask.
 
disregard.

[This message has been edited by jrf (edited 12-26-2000).]
 
Shhh! don't tell anyone :>)

Snaring deer is about as easy as it gets.

One scenario: Mountainous area in a canyon, willows lining stream.

Deer like to push through Willows to get water. Tend to do this twice a day during the summers. They are regular in their habits. Once you locate a trail going to the stream set a large snare with bottom of the snare at about two feet and with a three foot loop. Use para cord (550 cord) for loop. Use a prusick knot for the slider and attach live end to something VERY substantial.

You will know when you have the animal. Kill it with a spear up the butt.

I KNOW this works.

Be very careful when approaching the trap. If you caught a bear... you have a problem. The cord won't hold for long but if you are there when he breaks loose... You lose.

THere are a lot of other eays. We cover many of them in our "Traps and Trapping" video including how to make the prusick.

Ron

------------------
Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 

This isn't exactly economical, and most likely it isn't possible today. I once watched a study that said that when primitive man would hunt they would gather in a large group and heard the deer, or what ever else they were hunting, until they got as close as they could then they would chase them back and forth until a few were close enough to give them some hard spear thrusts. I saw the people who came up with the theory try it and after spending all day they were finally able to do it. I hope my little history lesson didn't bore you too much, but maybe a few of you found it informitive.
smile.gif




------------------
Where the lion's skin will not reach, you must patch it out with the fox's.
 
If you want to learn trapping either get Rons Video or get the SAS Survival Handbook they have tons of traps that I would use for a large animal. What about using a deadfall? If so arm it will spikes and add a rock or two for some extra weight. If you would like I can get the pics of the traps scanned and post them. Geoff.
 
Ron, a spear up the butt? OW!
smile.gif
Never thought of that. Around here there are many Buffalo jumps, or Pishkins, box canyons that were used to trap animals, Antelope pits, snowdrift kill sites, and the drivelines that led to these traps. Many different animals were caught in these traps. I spend a lot of time in the summers studying these things, and it shows how ingenious the Indians were. At one of these sites, there is a painting on the rock of a man, and he is upside down, I just learned that this meant that he was killed at the site, so goes to show you that there was a lot of danger involved!

------------------
www.simonichknives.com

[This message has been edited by Rob Simonich (edited 02 December 1999).]
 
impaleing a deer with a pole is not fun but it is effective. It is much easier than trying to get through tough hide, ribs etc. I did it once.... long story but it worked fine and kills very quickly.

The Kuchen Indians used a type of expanding toggle on large animals. They'd shove it where the sun don't shine. One end is in the animal the other end is tied to a rope. When the animal "ran out of rope" the dirty deed was done. With big fast running animals these things would literally eviscerate the animal. Saves cleanup.

Ron

------------------
Learn Life Extension at:

http://www.survival.com ]
 
Hi all,

Great topic. I use 550 cord like Ron mentioned (trail with natural funneling). Check his tapes out. I snaring is also covered in my book (my next book which will be out late next year will cover large game snares in more detail). I however, make a 3 strand braid out of 3 long peices of the 550. I have several and all are 25 feet in length. This greatly increased the strength of the snare (less chance of breakage with the big game). AND Yes this does work. The biggest problem is killing the very upset animal once you have captured it.

Another method (besides the large loop snare) is to use an apache foot snare. This device allows you to snare the animals foot...holding it in place.

However, I still advocate using snares for the smaller game. Your success rate is far greater. Put both out...eat the squirrels and rabbits (don't forget your plants and bugs) while you hope and wait to snare that deer :>)

------------------
Greg Davenport
http://www.ssurvival.com
Are You Ready For The Challenge?
Are You Ready To Learn The Art Of Wilderness Survival?

 
An aligator lying in ambush at water's edge will charge an aproaching game animal. The Florida Natives would use a big log sharpened at one end, charge the gator, who would counter-charge and get a log rammed down his throat for it.

I've never tried this one.

You can kill many critters with a knife, but you have to be able to close with them. Stalking is a tricky skill to learn, I reccomend COl. Applegate's Scouting and Patroling plus a lot of practical experiment on stray cats(stalking, not killing). When you can get close to an alley cat, you can get close to anything.

Anyway, get close, then sprint at your game. The way we take down boar these days is to pounce on them from behind(preferably), sweep their legs out from under them with your own while wrapping your left arm around their neck and grabbing their right leg and pulling up so as to pin the head and expose the armpit. Shove a long blade up inside the soft armpit and wiggle.

You usualy won't get hurt after you've perfected this, but learn'n's a bitch...
smile.gif


Maybe you can practice on a buddy, without actualy sticking the knife inside him. Just don't let anyone see you jump on top of your friend who's down on all fours and then intertwine your legs and roll around. They might get the wrong impression...

Racoon, possum(remove the musk galnds and they are palatable), armadillo can all be clubbed if you get close enough.

The key is to be willing to play them for a real long time. Freeze when ever they look up, aproach when they look away or are eating something. Never try to get too close to fast, and know how to play tree.

They aren't smart enough to figure out why you're getting closer and closer, but they are smart enough to detect all but the most subtle approach.
 
Speaking of cats, I remember when I was first practicing stalking skills. I practiced walking everywhere as silently as possible -- making my stalking step as unobservable as possible in the city otr town, and tip-toeing around the house. (I walk quietly everywhere now by habit, and keep scaring my friends inadvertently.)

I realized that I was getting the hang of it once when I walked from the front room in my house to the kitchen with some dishes in hand. I wasn't even consciously practicing stalking. I came to the open doorway to the kitchen and my roommate's two cats both quickly spun around, hair way up on their backs, and hissed in terror. When they saw it was just me, they went back to sitting there indifferently, but looking a little annoyed that one of these damn humans actually got up to them without them hearing or feeling it through the floor. :-)

Brian.
 
The prusik knot Ron speaks of is probably the best outdoors knot ever invented, short of a figure 8. (All you bowline people don't get upset)

With the simple prusik, you can make snares that hold better, climb ropes and vines, and make improvised quick handles for anything round.

We used these long before we could afford Jumars to acsend long pitches of rope. 550 cord is an excellent size for making prusiks for general use and you can do multi wrap prusiks if you need to make a stronger grip. Typically, climbing a 7/16" rope we would use a 3 wrap prusik.

Learn this knot if you're going to play in the woods. - Jeff

------------------
Randall's Adventure & Training
jeff@jungletraining.com



[This message has been edited by JeffRandall (edited 02 December 1999).]
 
well if you have the old Harry McEvoy book on throwing knifes and axes he talks about a person taking a boar with a bunch of throwing knifes. or have you looked in the Cold Steel Catalog on the boar spear? there are people taking huge boars with them
 
We humans are long distance runners, so one obvious primitive tactic is to run after the animal until it drops from exhaustion.

BTW, I think living on squirrels and jays is just slow starvation, so that's why I ask.
Click to expand...

Sure, but how would deer be any better?

If we're talking about a survival situation, it's a rather long time until you need to eat fat. And then you don't need a lot. I'd think there are better things to eat most places there are deer. (If there isn't, yes, I know you can eat totally animal food, as there are people who never eat anything vegetable.)

------------------
Urban Fredriksson
www.canit.se/%7Egriffon/

"Smooth and serrated blades cut in two entirely different fashions."
- The Teeth of the Tyrannosaurs, Scientific American, Sep 1999


 
Most of us can survive a looooong time if we
have the right clothing or shelter and h20.
A person can spend more energy than recopera
tive on small animals and large if you are
trying to chase them down. Plants can be
deadly if you aren't really good at identifying. Deer are rather plentiful in
just about all the states and can be snared
or killed with a sharp stick with ease and
provide adequate sustanance and can be taken
at ambush without a lot of chasing around.
In this day and time in getting lost or disorentied (unless intentional)how long would a person have to survive? Maybe a week
at the most. Unless you were careless enough
not to let a single person know where you were going and when you would be back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Psychological preparedness is more important
than most equipment.

------------------
http://www.imt.net/~goshawk
Don't walk in tradition just because it feels good!!!!!
Romans 10:9,10
Hebrews 4:12-16
Psalm 91

 
Is there someplace out there that shows how to tie a prusick knot?

Thanks.

------------------
At that time the LORD said unto Joshua, Make thee sharp knives… (Joshua 5:2)
 
Hello-

Regarding the Prusick/Prussik knot, and other knots, you folks might want to check out the following book: "The Ashley Book of Knots" (ISBN 0-385-04025-3). This is the encyclopedia of knots, written over 50 years ago by a sailor. It has (count 'em!) over 3900 knots, and lots of interesting information about how they were used. The general theme is sailing, so it does not specialize in wilderness knots, but it covers everything from snares to decorative button-knots. The explanation of how to tie and the details on how to place and use a hangman's knot is particularly interesting.

The index in Ashley has no entry for the Prusick/Prussik knot, but I found it and its kin in several places. To give you the flavor of how Ashley describes knots in general, here is his description of the Prusick/Prussik, as shown in entry #1673: "The COW HITCH or LANYARD HITCH is the knot that is employed is securing a lanyard to a shroud. It is the same knot formation as the BALE SLING HITCH, or RING HITCH (#1859), and the RUNNING EYE (#1699), but the COW HITCH is tied in the end of the rigging lanyard while the BALE SLING HITCH is tied in the bight of a continuous strap or wreath and a RUNNING EYE is tied in an EYE SPLICE."

#481 shows a double Prisick/Prussik used in hoisting on a standing line/sheet/rope, but it calls the knot one of a "tree surgeon's variations of the MAGNUS HITCH (#1734)." See also #1126.

Regarding the use of a Prusick/Prussik knot in a snare, I am sure it works just fine, but I am left wondering why Ashley's knot #1118 is not used as much. The free end of the Prusick/Prussik is not as securely held as in #1118, and #1118 is reported to be "An excellent knot for snares, which draws up smoothly and unties easily."

To tie #1118 for yourself, try the following instructions…

Let a loop hang down in your left hand, with the free end coming back up close on the right side (the hanging loop forming a noose), and leave about a foot of rope remaining on the free end. Pass the free end to the back of the rope in your left hand (back of the top of the noose you are forming – this forms the topmost cross of the noose, referred to below), and bring it down around the front. Let that free end cross over the front of the noose/loop, and go back around the back again, with these wraps nicely proceeding in a spiral downward. When the free end comes back to the front the second time (being wrapped twice around the top of the noose), bringing it across the front of the noose, push the free end up through the first (the topmost) cross made at the top of the noose, so that the free end comes through and out along the same path taken by the other end of the rope.

I'd like to hear if anyone has had experience with this knot, especially in comparison to the Prusick/Prussik. Thanks for your field-tested insights!

-Mike
 
I think you might just want to break down and make a projectile weapon. The quickest is just a pointed stick throwing spear. I wouldn't generally spend a lot of time looking for flint for a spear head. Whittle a good point and maybe fire harden it. To be effective it will need to be somewhat long and heavy. This makes it a bit slower than you would like. If you have practised with them, spear throwers are very effective at close range. You use a much lighter spear and use the length of the thrower to get a much higher velocity. A spear thrower is a lot easier to make and requires simpler materials than a bow. Simple spears you won't loose and can carry some spares.

I've hunted rabbits with a throwing knife and wouldn't consider it for serious survival. For one thing it's much too easy to loose your knife. For small game you might just want to use some tennis ball sized rocks. I've used slings, but they're awfully hard to use accurately. You can improvise a sling out of a pant leg if you're determined. Generally it takes a long time to make a sling with primitive materials. I've done it often using parachute cord, canvas, needle, and heavy duty thread. Usually I don't have all that with me when I'm wandering in the wild.


[This message has been edited by Jeff Clark (edited 08 December 1999).]
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top