I'm really new to knives...I could use some help!

N

Nick24

Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
27
Hi,
My name is Nick and I'm new to this forum and knife collecting in general. I've been on here reviewing posts for a few months making some purchases before I decided to come on and post myself. I don't have a big collection of knives or even many good quality knives, but I decided I needed to take the plunge and purchase a sharpening system.

I bought a Spyderco Sharpmaker 204 with the Diamond and Ultra Fine stones. I also purchased a Hand American leather strop and Razor Edge Systems edge tester. The only quality knife I have is the Spyderco Ronin.

My reason for posting is to get some opinions on my new sharpening rig...what I need to make it better...what you guys are using. Ultimately I would love to learn how to sharpen freehand, but I've never been to good at anything freehand. Also I'd love some recommendations on future knife purchases.

My favorite knife maker is Mike Snody. My favorite knife companies are Spyderco, Emerson, and Benchmade. I love the Emerson La Griffe...I would love to know what other knives with the finger hole you guys would recommend. I could use a lot of help so I would appreciate any feedback! Thanks for checking in!!!

Nick24
 
Well, welcome.

The sharpmaker itself is very easy to use, just follow the booklet. I would say watch the video but for some reason Spyderco doesn't include a DVD? silly. Either way, you have a good start, now just to get something worth sharpening. ;]

I am also a fan of snody's designs, I got myself a benchmade 220 and am loving it as a great little fixed blade. Also take a look at the AFCK, or if you're feeling less bold (or daring) the Griptillian.
 
Welcome to BF!!!


Sharpening freehand really isn't that hard you've just got to get a feel for what works for you. Different stones and technique can make a world of difference. I found what works for me via trial and error. It took a loooooong time but now I can throw an edge on just about anything intended to have one that'll pop the hairs right off my arm. I find the best technique and stones for me are:

Stones: Japanese water stones, soft Arkansas stone (multi-color or dark), and a ceramic hone and leather strop (of course)

Technique: Small to medium counter clockwise cirlces on the stones at desired/required angle(s) of the edge and alternating push/draw strokes on the ceramic hone at highest angle (about 20-30 degrees)

Like I said it's all up to you or who taught you to do it. I taught myself with some help along the way, it's a great hobby if you've got the time, and it's just like cleaning a gun; bonding/familiarization time with your weapon/tools! :p
 
Your Sharpmaker setup should work very well if you don't have a large number of very large and very dull knives to work on. Save the edges of the diamond rods strictly for serrated blades. You want to conserve your diamonds there and you don't want to waste them on flat edges. When you use the diamond rods use light pressure, again to preserve the diamonds. You probably only need to use the diamond rods on extremely dull knives or knives that you want to reprofile.

I like to finish-sharpen my edges to 30 degrees (15 degrees per side). The trick is that you need to do most of your sharpening at a little under 30 degrees to make this work. That is where the teeter-totter method comes in. I lay one of the brass hand protection rods on a counter lined up away from me. I lay the center of the base of the Sharpmaker across the rod such that the base can tip slightly left or right like a playground teeter-totter. I put the rods in the 30-degree slots. I use my left hand to tip the base left or right as I hone on the right or left rod. If I tilt right I use the left rod and if I tilt left I use the right hand rod. I go through all of the ceramic rods in series doing this (I only use the flats of the fine and ultra-fine rods, not the edges). Then I remove the brass rod so I am back to working at 30-degrees. I use just the flats of the Ultra Fine and stroke very lightly about five times per side. Through the all of the later stages of honing I always alternate left-right-left-right sides. This gives me a fine shaving edge even before stropping. When you strop use light pressure as well.
 
I use a Steel wrapped in sandpaper, the sandpaper is taped up so it stays in a roll
and I can swap different grits easily.
The guard of the steel tells me what angle I start at, then I move the blade
along freehand.
I guess I use a semi-freehand system.
I find this useful because I can get the feel of what different angles are like,
so if I ever do have to sharpen freehand I'll have an idea of what I'm doing.
 
Welcome! You've got an excellent sharpening setup there; I commend you for recognizing how important good gear is. A lot of people seem to want to get big dollar knives and then think they can sharpen them with a $10 Wal-Mart special. :rolleyes: What good is a knife that can't cut?

That said, I think one of the few things you could use to improve your setup is a good steel, either from Hand American or Razor Edge, and a quality coarse benchstone. After you sharpen more, you'll find that coarse stones can really make your life easier when sharpening a new knife, or someone else's knives. Trust me, once you get good and show off your edges, practically all of your friends will want you to put an edge like that on their knife. What I've found is that nearly all factory edges are too thick, and will require quite a bit of reprofiling. Once you've done that with the coarse stone, polishing the edge with your Sharpmaker stones and strop is a piece of cake. If you haven't seen it already, this site explains the process very well. BTW, I strongly second Jeff's warning about the diamond stones. You should never use a lot of pressure on diamond stones or the diamonds will pull right out of the backing. Those things aren't cheap, it sucks to ruin them. Best of luck and welcome to BF once again.
 
Thanks for the help!

Ascoe: Have you ever held a Snody Custom? I'd really like to get one, but as you know they are hard to come by. Also what other knives do you have in your collection?

Fedaykincmnder: What exactly is the difference between honing and stropping? If I understand correctly you use ceramic to hone the knife before stropping...can I use the Spyderco Ultra fine stones to hone?

La goata: I have thought of getting a custom La griffe. Do you have one? I don't know much about blade steels...I believe the customs are made with 1050. I heard that 1050 rusts easily...is that true? What versions of the custom do you like?

Jeff Clark: Thanks for the technique...are the diamond rods very fragile? I've heard to use light pressure because the diamonds may fall off. So it's best to save it for serrations and dull knifes. What do you think about the 30 and 40 degree angles on the sharpmaker...are they good for any knife? I was thinking I would just reprofile all my blades to the same angles...is that a stupid idea?

Joshua J: That sounds kind of cool. Do you use anything for honing or stropping?

Roadrunner: I was just looking into steel, but I'm not actually sure what it's for. I'm embarrassed to say that I don't really know the difference between honing, stropping, or steeling. I was thinking maybe they are similiar applications with different objects. I could use a lot of help in this area. What do you think of the Razor Edge RAZ-R STEEL? Also what coarse benchstone would you recommend...is Norton good?

Esav Benyamin: Thanks for the links they were very helpful.

I need lots of help...I so new to sharpening it hurts. Thanks for all the input guys!
 
Honing or sharpening is the process of removing small amounts of material from a damaged edge to restore the even cutting surface. You hone or sharpen with benchstones, ceramic stones or rods, water stones, or diamond stones or rods.

While diamond rods are no more inherently fragile than most other sharpening media, you should always sharpen with light, even strokes. This prevents chipping or degrading the sharpener, and helps prevent an uneven edge forming, too. It also gives better control of how sharp you get the edge. Why push beyond what you need?

Stropping is a way to polish that sharpened edge, on a leather or cardboard strop or on a pants leg, to remove the last of the tiny, micro imperfections left at the edge.

A steel works somewhat the same as a strop, in that it realigns an edge that may have rolled slightly under heavy use. Typically a butcher will steel his knife frequently rather than sharpen it because steeling does not remove material from the edge, it just shapes it up again. Eventually, the rolling of a fine edge will result in deeper damage, like chipping, so sharpening comes into play at that point.

The best angle for a blade depends on the steel and heat treat to some extent, and the use you have for the knife. For example, a kitchen knife with a thin, hard blade should get the narrowest sharpened angle you can put on it. A camp knife used for chopping wood should get a more obtuse angle. But a camp knife of premium steel will be able to maintain a narrower angle, and cut better for a long time anyway.

Don't worry about any carbon steel rusting easily unless you use it in a very damp environment, especially sea side, without regular wiping down and perhaps daily oiling. Fred Perrin's blades are often mirror polished, which is an added protection against rust, as the surface is so smooth, unlike bead blast, that rust has few pits to begin in.

What you really need are a few old, cheap knives, and the regular Sharpmaker rods. Collect a few old paring knives from family and friends and touch them up. Great practice for you -- and they end up with sharp knives again! Once you've got that down pat, look at using the ultra-fine rods to polish the edges a bit, especially on carving knives, and then try the diamond rods on any old pocket knives that really need a new edge put on them.
 
Thanks Esav...My two main purposes for keeping a knife sharp (besides the fact that a knife is SUPPOSED to be) is self-defense and work. I'm looking into the high quality knives mostly for a collection and I'm not quite sure how often I'll actually get to use them. So I bought a few cheap knives for different applications at work. I work in a warehouse so I'm cutting stretch wrap off pallets and also cutting a lot of straps and boxes.

I bought a cheap little Tomahawk skinner knife on ebay for work. It's kind of cool for $5 bucks. It's got the finger hole which I like...gives me good control and causes much less fatigue out of my hand on very long shifts. So I'm hoping just to keep it sharp all the time so all of my tasks are easy. Should I get a little steel and take it to work with me? Is there a good item I should take with me for little touch-ups throughout the day?
 
Nick24 said:
Ascoe: Have you ever held a Snody Custom? I'd really like to get one, but as you know they are hard to come by. Also what other knives do you have in your collection?
Click to expand...
Hah, I wish. My only Snody design is the BM 220, the small fixed blade resistor. It's a great knife. I also have an 806d2 AFCK, a 722s, a 3100, and a Camillus EDC. My newest piece is the Benchmade 41MC balisong. :]

If you dont know the model numbers, you will probably pick them up soon enough, the benchmade site can help you out matching up pictures to model numbers.
 
Nick, the Razr Steel is great, I've had mine for a while and it's well made. As for a good coarse stone, well, I'm still looking. Norton has a great reputation, as does Razor Edge. I think I'm going to try a set of the Razor Edge stones whenever I get a little extra cash.
 
Nick24 said:
I work in a warehouse so I'm cutting stretch wrap off pallets and also cutting a lot of straps and boxes.

... It's got the finger hole which I like...gives me good control and causes much less fatigue out of my hand on very long shifts. So I'm hoping just to keep it sharp all the time so all of my tasks are easy. Should I get a little steel and take it to work with me? Is there a good item I should take with me for little touch-ups throughout the day?
Click to expand...

Sounds familiar. I worked for the Postal Service and used a knife for about the same as you.

I'm not familiar with the specific knife you've got. You might like to look at the CRKT Bear Claw, too. Normally I recommend plain edge, but you might like the serrated on this one. At the higher end, the Spyderco DoDo would do the job, too, plain OR serrated.

I would suggest a small steel or a small ceramic rod for touch ups on the job. One great little ceramic rod I like to keep handy is the Gatco Tri-Seps. I have the GA60016 Ceramic Sharpener and the GA60616 Diamond Version with monocrystalline diamonds on a steel substrate, but I usually just keep the ceramic handy. It's actually like a short piece of Sharpmaker coarse rod with rubber bumpers at each end.
 
what about the Gerber Diamond Knife Sharpener the one that looks like a pen but has a pull out diamond coated rod
 
Have you ever held a Snody Custom? I'd really like to get one, but as you know they are hard to come by.
Click to expand...

here is the one you can order right away. I was going to order it by myself, but I'm not a big fun of chisel grind.
 
Check out jester in the Gallery. He has a few nice finger hole knives posted you might like.


Cerberus
 
I have the Sharpmaker 204 and all the rods. You can use the diamonds for reprofiling, but a cheaper flat coarse diamond benchstone is faster (more surface area), but you would have to learn some rudimentary freehand. (then finish with the sharpmaker)

Apparently you can press to hard on the diamond sharpmaker rods. The diamonds will not be ruined, but you can chip/pull them out of the metal that bonds them to the rod. If you use med/light strokes, I think it will take a very long time to wear them out. I've sharpened a couple dozen blades on mine, including D2 blades which needed hour(s) of reprofiling, and the rods are holding up just fine.
 
Originally posted by Nick24
That sounds kind of cool. Do you use anything for honing or stropping?
Click to expand...

Yes, I have a block of wood with a strip of CRO(green stropping goo) loaded leather on the top.
Stropping is definitely worth practicing, it'll help take your knife to the
extreem levels of sharpness.
I also have a lansky super fine hone, but find I don't use it.
the strop seems to do well enough without using the hone
beforehand.
The highest grit sandpaper I use is 1500.
 
La goata: I have thought of getting a custom La griffe. Do you have one? I don't know much about blade steels...I believe the customs are made with 1050. I heard that 1050 rusts easily...is that true? What versions of the custom do you like?
Click to expand...

I've owned two actually but have long since sold them off to fund my custom bali obsession, but I will definitely vouch for their quality and I plan on getting another.
The blade steel is actually 1075 and a lot of custom makers seem to like it. You'll find a few makers on this forum that like anything in the 10xx series of steel. It rusts easier, but not necessarily easily. Just make sure you maintenance it like you would any knife every once in a while (Ren wax, militech).
I liked any of the 2 inch wood handled versions, but for true concealed carry get a plain cord wrapped model. Here's a great review of them if you want to learn more about it.

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/2292/grifferev.htm
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top