Imperfections

You shoouldn't accept any flaws whatsoever. When people accept a flawed knife w/out complaining it tells the maker he can get away w/making an inferior product. If a makers flawed knives all sit unsold on his table he will hopefully get the message that it's a waste of his time to produce anything but his best.
 
C

Corduroy

Joined
Apr 15, 1999
Messages
1,442
Imp,

With all due respect, you need to look harder. All knives have flaws. If you think a knife is "perfect," look harder or ask the maker. He or she will know flaws in it you may never spot, but they put it out because it's their best honest effort. Excellence is not perfection, it's simply working to higher standards than your critics. My knives are very far from perfect (a few folks have told me they are, but they just didn't know where to look), but I'm working on it. If I ever make a perfect one, I might as well quit.

I do agree that we should demand more from most makers. We're up to our necks in simple, ill-fitted bead-blasted "custom" junk because folks will still pay much more for that than for a nicely finished "factory" piece. Raise your standards by all means. But if you go to a show asking for perfection, and when you come home your knife bag isn't empty, I encourage you to either get glasses or bring that knife to me A.S.A.P. - I want see perfection! I haven't yet.

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-Drew Gleason
Little Bear Knives
 
I guess I look at things a little different from you guys. Minor flaws, if they are acknowledged by the maker and reflected in the price can result in getting some great deals. I picked up a small drop point hunter with very nice fileworked blade from a well known maker several years ago. The catch was that while polishing the white micarta handle a few specks of grit got into the handle. Its hard to see unless you really look but the maker to his credit pointed it out and reduced the price. I'd always admired his knives but if he hadn't had this one at a great price I could not have afforded to own one. I also have a subhilt fighter by a maker who was very new to the game at the time. Fit and finish on the handle are quite good but the forged blade does not have a straight edge----it looks somewhat like a boomerang would if it was flattened vertically. I liked the knife, the price was right so I bought it. Last year I bought another knife from this maker who has now be at it for 6 or 7 years and the difference is remarkable. He has improved greatly but for a forged knife his prices are excellent. Anyway when I buy I look first for value. I don't like to pay more than the intrinsic value of the knife. Thats why I don't collect antiques. I just can't see paying four figures for an old Case pocketknife no matter how rare. Oh well, different strokes for different folks.

phantom4

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who dares, wins


 
Drew,

Nobody said perfection, and all people have their own perception of what is a flaw be it a ****ty lock or otherwise.

However too many guys will just toss a knife that they are unhappy with for some reason into the back of the drawer and forget about it, out of sight out of mind.

If there are flaws and a person can live with them so be it, but as you stated knife knuts do need to raise their standards and expectations especially w/handmade knives.

 
Yea to a point but don't nitpick a man to death flaws are part of it the last perfect thing on this earth was crucified ,but thats my view somthing else you must think about as to compairing knifemakers with alot of highdollar equipment to those that only have a few simple tools some of us just have to do with what we have
 
Tom,

"How about you guys that like the liner locks haven't you ever gone to the knifemakers table and handled different knives of the same model and seen noticible differences in them?"
Click to expand...

That's been my thinking for a while now.

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Johnny
[]xxxxxx[]=============>
 
I dont think there is a knife on the planet with absolutely NO human flaws. Sure they may not be detectable, but i would bet most knives have some human imperfection, thats just the nature of anything built with the possibility of human error.

I think it is however relative to price in many ways... If im paying $5,000 for a knife than i will expect the flaws to either be "undetectable" or at least minor. If i pay $150 for a "custom" knife than i expect to be able to find a "flaw".

I was standing at a well known and very talented makers table at the Guild Show. He was talking about this very topic. I will paraphrase- he said "Every knife in this building has an imperfection somewhere, but some are hidden very well". And this is from a maker that i consider among the cleanest of the "new generation" of makers.

Any how, i wouldnt give a maker a hard time about cosmetic flaws on anything under $1,000.

I think some folks really get carried away by this and break out the 20X viewing glass, to these folks i say- Try and make a knife.

I got serious about making about 1 year ago. I have a even fonder respect for the good, clean makers.

P.S. i cant afford a $5,000 knife.
If i could i would buy a restorable 69 Camaro.
 
Every custom work has flaws and the quality of any given maker's work ebbs with the tides of his life.

I appreciate it when a maker adjusts his prices when a particular piece doesn't come out as well as he expected.

I also understand that design and integrity do not come cheap, and these things usually have more value than superficial appearances.

Some years ago I sent a S&W M29 to Lou Ciamillo (1990 American Pistolsmith of the Year) for extensive modification and I asked him to make "perfect".

Many dollars and years (yes, years) later it came back.
Not perfect.
You might think it perfect if you handled it for a few minutes.
However, I have found every little flaw and imperfection.
At first they bothered me.
Now, as tracks of Lou's humanity, they give the piece more value.

Gene Osborn has three knives on the way to me.
One of them I asked him specifically to send.
Gene has sent that knife to me, perhaps a little reluctantly because he knows its imperfections too well.
I find the design of this knife, the selection of materials and the pattern of filing fascinating.
I expect to enjoy finding the little imperfections and the dings from car keys and pocket change that happen to a daily carry knife.
I get to examine a knife maker's personal knife.
I hope I don't let my need for perfection get in the way of beauty, purpose and meaning.

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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11
 
Good post Matt...

Imperfections are just part of the game. Every knife I own has an imperfection but there are imperfections (pitting at the tang and handle) and there are Imperfections (blade cracks, lock fails, etc.)

What impresses me with a custom maker is the guy who:
1. tells me what the imperfections are
2. asks me for an honest assessment
3. offers to make the deal right if something happens to the knife that isn't my fault.

What makes custom knife collection fun is the knife, but to me, it's the maker. Makers are usualy very unselfish people. They share things that make the lore of knife collecting more fun. They share info, ideas and feedback. They are usually honest to a fault. The makers I buy from are great at working with me.

Drew is right, all knives have imperfections but I doubt that I will ever see a perfect knife. What I want is my money's worth and a good, reliable working tool. If there's a blemish, my philosphy is there would be one anyway 5 minutes after I start using it.

Regards,

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~Greg~


 
Earlier this week I finished a japanese-style kitchen knife for a customer, who had selected his own set of scales from several sets of desert ironwood I had.
After gluing and pinning, as I worked them down to the final shape, a large check in one side became apparent. This in no way interfered with the stability of the knife...was just a slight cosmetic defect. I filled it in with sawdust and cyanoacrylate the best I could, but it was still slightly visible.
I told the buyer about it, and offered to make him another one if he would just choose another set of scales. He'd have none of it...wanted that knife!
I then dropped the price $25.00, and he made me out a check for the full amount. I protested, but he refused to listen.
He's placed another order, and you can bet your bippie that blade will be "special".
Knife people...collectors and makers are for the most part, damn fine individuals!
 
You may think of a knife as a weapon or a tool.
When I think of a custom knife, I think of art, regardless of any other purpose it may have.
I do not expect perfection from Van Gogh.
Quite the opposite.
Why, then, should I expect perfection from Tom Mayo or Gene Osborn?
Unless, of course, the maker intends perfection as part of his or her art statement.
Consider a Rolex watch.
It keeps no better time than an inexpensive quartz watch.
One pays, in that case, for the art of mechanical complexity and aesthetic perfection.
If you engage a knife maker with that in mind, and he has a like mind, you should expect a reasonable level of perfection.
Otherwise, enjoy the minor irregularities as evidence of the human hand at work.

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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11
 
I just received a hand made folder by a well known maker yesterday and here are some flaws I have found in it. I don't see these flaws often in other knives I've handled. Please tell me how acceptable they are. Note, the knife is fully functional but I didn't expect these seemingly obvious errors.

1) blade still has some grind marks aside from the machine satin polish

2) anodized titanium handle slab is slightly scratched

3) screws holding handle together is not flush with handle slab

4) thumb studs are not flush with blade flat

5) two screws holding clip to handle are not set straight

6) clip looks unfinished, light uneven grind marks on side

Please comment.

Thanks,
Tim
 
Boy I know what you mean by finding a problem during the final touches I hand picked some of the finest M.O.Pearl I had seen in a while /made a 2 bld. slipjoint for a customer an found an internal crack you can't feel it but it is visible BUMMER
 
On The Knife receved I tell all my customers if your not happy I WAN'T to hear from you so I'me sure the maker would like to have the chance to make it right even though I don't know him
 
Tim,

#1, 2 & 6 are minor, although you'd expect a brand new knife not to have this kind of stuff. The other points are just poor workmanship and I wouldn't accept those "flaws". But you got to be the judge of whats acceptable to you and what isn't.

However, your Sebenza didn't have any of these problems when you got it did it?
 
After closer observation, I noticed that the filework on the spine of the handle didn't match up either. I consider this a really major aesthetic flaw.

No, the Sebenza did not have any of these problems. The only complaint I have about the Sebenza is the placement and orientation of the clip. But that's not a problem w/ worksmanship.

When I am compensated/refunded for this knife, I will get a Sebenza as a replacement.

Tim
 
The closer one gets to perfection, the higher the price of the product. When purchasing a knife, I don't expect perfection as I don't have enough $ to obtain it. I'm realistic.

I tend to work within a price range when purchasing and I try to obtain the best value in that range. If the value is there and I'm comfortable stepping out of the range or I simply want an example that I like of a particular makers work, the I'll also move in my acceptable price range.

As close to perfection as I have seen is Wolfegang Loerchner but unfortunately he has moved considerably out of my price range.

A maker who had something in my range and still creates a magnificent knife is Charles Bennica--so I have one.
 
The best description of a flawless knife can be found here. http://pweb.netcom.com/~bsmythe1/
Anybody that says there is no such thing as a perfect knife isn't looking hard enough.
We're not talkinhg about looking at a knife with a microscope . If I can't see it with the naked eye there is no flaw.
 
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