Inbound

MikeC

MikeC

Joined
Sep 16, 2005
Messages
1,364
Inbound, Steve I sent the Mission MPF 3 off today, got back to the office and the order form was laying on my desk. It goes out tommorow. My bad.

Thanks for taking this on.

MikeC
 
Thanks for the heads up Mike. I figured it was in the mail already but no big deal.

As we discussed in our email, once it is here I'll eval it and see what I think is possible based on your request and then go from there.

If its possible I'll let you know and we'll cover the details and time frame to expect and all that then. Thanks :thumbup:

STR
 
Steve, I've seen some of the other stuff you've done and I have complete confidence in your ability to make it happen. I am not concerned about time frame whatsoever, it is not a factor.
 
Got the folder this morning. You know Mike looking it over briefly when I opened it all that is really wrong with it is the vertical play its developed and the reason for that is more to do with the fact that the lock was never sprung enough to continue self correcting any farther than it went so far. If I add some spring to the lock it will self correct and be firm again. Personally thats all I'd do if it were mine. Many companies do this since it makes the lock easier to manipulate rather than give it super spring to where it sticks really bad. Once its worn down though it is ok to respring it and it won't stick like when new.

By the way this is the first time I've seen one of the Mission ti folders for anything. I love the size of it and may just have to see if I ever find one if I can get one for my own collection.

STR
 
Steve---Sorry to butt in but Mission knives don't get the recognition they deserve. I have a MPF Ti and it's a heck of a folder. Glad to hear that you like it!! :thumbup:
 
Just to let you know I did adjust the lock today and there is no vertical play now. It sticks a little as I figured it would but I don't think it is bad and it probably will work in shortly based on how you seem to use it, I mean from the looks of it. :D I can tell you put it to work and it seems it takes it.

On rebuilding the lock side. Ok here is what I found in taking it apart to adjust the lock and look inside. There is no traditional detent ball installed on the Mission folder apparently. Now, based on my own making of some all titanium folders in the past I can kind of guess as to why. The ball kind of makes the action gritty no matter how much oil or grease you put on it and this is due to the ti blade. They are not smooth. Apparently Mission (John) found some way to use something else for the blade to slide on as it rotates. It may be titanium or it may be something else. I really can't tell but whatever it is it does not act like a detent in the sense that it keeps the blade closed by defeating gravity. Its sole purpose is to allow the blade to ride on it so it feels smooth. My fear if I rebuild the lock side is that it will be so gritty the trade off will not be worthwhile because the only way I have to do it is a detent ball. I can't duplicate whatever Mission did here for this part.

Otherwise it looks like a typical frame lock. The pivot is tight and apparently they have to be to keep the pocket clip from moving back and forth. If I adjust it to an action that is still somewhat stiff but easier to open the clip moves some and if I tighten it down to keep the clip solid the action is so tight that I find the thumb stud too small for comfort sake and I find my stout well callused thumb actually, wishes there was a bigger diameter stud there to make the blade open more comfortably. I can't say I really care for the way the pocket clip was designed to be integral into the pivot screw tension but I do understand why the folder was made for tip down carry because tip up could be enough to allow the blade to open by gravity if the action were loosened on it to make opening it easier.

I believe if it were mine I'd have to come up with something else for a clip on this one. I'd leave it tip down in this case due to the details about the detent being absent but maybe a ti plate to sit under the pivot screw recessed in the cut out in the lock side and then a low rider or standard style clip with a hole in the mount to stradle the screw but cover the plate?? It seems there is enough room to the right and left of the pivot screw to make some wings from a new clip mount but it would require some time to design it. I'm not sure a low rider would work but a standard clip could be made to fit there I'm sure. Even after I did that though I am not sure how I could improve on the action much. I may find that its possible just can't be sure you know.

Anyway, this is my findings just looking it over briefly as I was mapping out my steps for another job I'm getting my ducks in a row for trying to figure out what I'm going to be up against when I start it.

STR
 
Yeah that makes sense but its not a ball. Its flat and kind of rectangular from what I recall. Whatever it is I have no way of duplicating it.

Truth be told I see nothing wrong with the folder as is other than a somewhat awkward pocket clip/ pivot screw relationship.

STR
 
Mission would no doubt give you the polymer pad. Ask for Caroline or Elouise.
Warren Thomas uses a polymer ball. There's another idea, maybe.
Rolf
 
Steve, funny you mention that, once you read my letter/request you will see you and I are on the same page. The clip kills me and that is also my biggest complaint about the knife. My redesign calls for no clip at all as I carry it in my pocket, just to remake the handle lock side as the original without the big divot or recess cut out to allow for the counter sinking of the pocket clip. That pocket clip is a horrible design in my opinion and as you state you can tell I use it, that knife has cleaned about 20+/- deer and been used exclusviely in the salt water marshes, gulf of mexico and hardwood bottoms swamps of Louisiana in my pursuit of fish and game. Its seen use from 30 feet deep to 25 feet up in a climbing tree stand, the reason the blade is marred is because I had to use it to cut through some thin aluminum sheet, didn't want to but I did. I should have waited and used a pair of tin snips but it did the job. Steve, thanks for respringing for me does the handle travel over in further on the end of the blade now? If so how far can get over and still be functional as it was already traveling over the half way mark, you can see where I marked it with a pencil to keep track of movement.

Thanks
 
It comes over about midway at the most now leaving room for wear yet so no worries there. Actually there are no worries on that even if it did cross the tang all the way because they can stay there for years unchanged. I've seen many that have been that way for years still with no vertical play. There is no reason for vertical play in these. Titanium galls on everything not just itself. Its all about the lock and contact relationship and if you can get that relationship to work better you can actually have a great contact with minimal sticking and no play.

I can rid the knife of the clip and what I'd suggest is a replacement plate to inlay there in place of the clip and I can make that of titanium probably pocket clip thickness to take its place. This could be cut to not only fill the gap allowing the screw to still work but also act as a stabailizer for the lock to keep from hyper extending the lock out the wrong way when closing the blade which can cause it to lose spring. That is how I'd do it and just give the plate a double purpose.

One of the draw backs to a frame lock is the chance of hyper extending the locks out the wrong way, particularly on models that have paper thin lock cuts to make the bends that spring the lock because cutting them that thin is why they are so easy to manipulate. ( the Mission folder is not thin like others I've seen though and I like that personally.) Those thin cuts making the lock liner lock easy to work can be a double edged sword so to speak because its easier to hyper extend too and if you have the clip there at least there is something to block the travel to some extent. With the clip gone though, it is a good idea to have another safe guard there for you in my opinion.

I find the knife appealing. I'd like to have one just like this one actually but I'm not paying $400 for one. :D

I'd buy a used one and clean it up though if one ever comes up on the for sale threads here. Still I'd have to say that while I find it appealing I don't care for the thumb stud. I'd have to change those to something bigger in diameter I think but then you'd have to modify the handle some for it to clear when opening the blade.

I find it interesting that the web site lists this as a 5 ounce folder. According to my digital postal scale its 3.1 ounces.

STR
 
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Lycosa, Caroline and Elouise have long since left Mission. Elouise left some time back due to health concerns and Caroline left immediately after she sold Mission to Anthony several months ago. Mission is now owned by Anthony last name escapes me at the moment, he also owns a company that manuf. titanium parts for the areo space industry. Steve, if your interested in a Mission MPF 3 Ti plain edge folder like mine, you can buy a brand new one from Mission right now for $274.99, as Anthony has lowered prices across the board on all remaining John More made Mission knives in order to clear out all of the John More inventory. I paid $415.00 for mine, so right now you can get one for $140.00 less than what they were selling for, the cheapest I ever saw one go for on ebay was $330.00. So the price right now is as good as it gets and its brand new from Mission. Lycoas same goes for you if want to pick up anthing Mission now is the time as all prices are ridcules, however there is limited selection of what is available.
 
I appreciate you letting me know Mike. These have some features I like, the choil built into the design is a real plus and I like that. The corrosion resistance would be nice at times but I really have no need for a non magnetic folder and I doubt it really can cut with a steel knife or even a talonite blade so weighing the beta ti blade based on my own ti blades I made I'd have to say the market is limited there. I have a talonite blade folder I made here and can't say I get it with all the hype about that material either and based on my use of it and this one in limited uses now I can't say this is really any different. They both cut flesh well but anything else you can roll the edge pretty easily which limits the uses some although both are tough stuff. You can force them through a lot but the edge suffers some from it. I've used this talonite for a lot of things now and can't say I'll do anymore lets put it that way.

Anyway, if you want my view point I'll give it here at the risk of starting a pissing match with some of the Mission fans.

First I'd center the lanyard better between the mounting screws in back that go through the rear stand off to space the folder and maybe even consider using G10 in there as a spacer instead of titanium and I'd make that G10 the same color as that used on an overscale. (see below)

I'd rid the knife of this cheesy pocket clip set up and probably equip it with a tip down low rider of titanium so its all the same material. I'd rid it of the grooves going down both sides of the body too and I would not mill out all the lock to thin it as they do but just do it as I usually do in two spots in the rear.

I'd leave the body scales sterile or as an option I'd offer an overscale of thin .060 or .080 thickness textured G10 or carbon fiber to add some grip on the non lock side and make it a partial scale only that can maybe add some flare to the design. This would look better and also offer some grip for a better thumb purchase of the folder to extract it from the pocket. If they didn't want to do that at Mission they could just machine some texture into the scale with a diamond pattern of slices not even needing to cover the entire scale but just enough to aid grip for the thumb on the non lock side. Sort of in the same general area as I did my overscales of textured G10 on my Ouparator custom ti frame lock folders shown in my blog on the small bushcraft and my hawkbill folders only using G10. Orange G10 or teal green or even thin textured carbon fiber would look great and serve a dual purpose.

I think the action could be greatly improved by switching to teflon washers in the pivot instead of the nylatron and by changing the thumb stud to a 3/16" diameter size maybe even adding some texture to that on the end and sides to aid getting it to stay put on the thumb better when you open the blade. The 1/8" stud just pokes too much even for my thumb and that discomfort adds to the difficulty opening it as does this pocket clip set up since the only way to keep that clip from moving all over the place is to make the blade pivot screw so tight that it is hard to open the blade. EDIT: Actually the action improved greatly by ridding the knife of the pocket clip set up. I rather found a happy medium I can live with on this one and think that in the case of this knife the clip was a big part of why the action felt so funny.

Do I like the knife? Sure its not bad and has some potential but I think they are a bit overpriced even now at the discount pricing. I don't just say that for the reasons I see above. EDIT again. With all that said I still may order one just to have one as a collector piece since with John gone there will be no more like this one. Even still I see enough to understand why the new owner of Mission knives wants to re evaluate the folder and knife line. I would assume he sees a lot of the same things I've noted.

The other factors that lead me to that conclusion are that there is very little attention to any sanding or real finishing to speak of on these based on what I see here. The stamping marks from blanking out the lock and non lock side, as well as the blade are all still visible indicating no clean up to do much more than deburr the pieces was done. It seems they cut them out or punched them out of the sheet and bead blasted them immediately and then made them into folders and sold them. Just looking at them that is not much hand work for what you'd expect in a folder of this price point, again when you compare it to others of the same price point and see how they'd be finished out. You just expect a certain minimum of finishing on a knife this expensive, or at least I do.

I mean no offense to Mission or to John and I do understand he has passed on but I'd have told him this if he was still here and had sent me one to evaluate. I just look at the knives for what I see and honestly I have handled $25 knives with much more finish work than I see here and again thats just calling it like I see it. Sticking with what I see and the facts as they are that would be my call on these. Ten or fifteen minutes of finish time would make a lot of difference in how they appear. Maybe the military is unconcerned about such matters I really can't say. For the cost it would be an issue with me though, particularly when you stop to figure that for less money you could have a small Sebenza with a fit and finish second to none and more than a fair amount of cutting power and corrosion resistance. About the only thing the Sebbie would fall behind in would be shear prying ability and the non magnetic thing.


STR
 
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What I did here is this. It took me two tries to get it to my liking but I managed to get you a quick and easy replacement for that clip set up. My hole for the screw to pass through the new plate is just big enough for the screw to pass through and no more. The hole in this clip is so large compared to the approx. 1/8" diameter pivot screw threaded area (basically the same diameter as the thumb stud on the blade) that it is part of the problem I think as to why the clip is all over the place side to side. The new titanium pocket clip thickness plate that I nested down in the inlay fits pretty tight around the screw and in the inlay so it should not move and it should be fine so long as the pivot tension is good. The only way it can move I think is if the screw backs up sufficient for it lift up. For some reason this nested inlay greatly improved the action also.

Not sure why on that last part but its fine now compared to before. The clip must have been putting something of a bind on the screw is all I can figure.

Anyway, I bead blasted it to match and stuck it on. Its a lot better. If you don't want a clip I'd say its basically finished as far as I can take it unless you want me to do something else to her Mike. I could probably come up with a low rider on it that may work but the screw sticking up underneath for tip down could present itself as a problem sliding over the rim of the pocket. I could still come up with a standard style pocket clip of titanium that would work but from the sounds of it you like carry without the clip so its probably good to go.

What I did here was not too time consuming or difficult. I wish all the work I had here was this simple. :) Just as I expected it to, the new nested plate functions as a good stop for the lock to butt up against preventing the lock from excessive travel going out farther than is needed than to just close the blade and free it up. Worked out great there. :thumbup:

STR
 
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