Introduction and Hand Sharpening Questions

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Jan 23, 2008
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I wanted to introduce myself and ask a few questions. My name is David Polan and I have been shaving with, restoring, sharpening, and selling straight razors for a long time now (I go by the same name at straightrazorplace.com) and decided that I really wanted to learn the art of hand sharpening knives. I purchased a Spyderco Native with CPMS30V steel from Walmart and also a cheap Smith & Wesson Homeland Security folder with 440 steel to practice my blade angles and honing strokes. The Spyderco was very sharp out of the box and the S&W was pretty dull, so I decided to try to sharpen the S&W with some of my Spyderco bench stones (Medium and Fine); I am not going to attempt to sharpen the Spyderco until it gets dull from use as I am really enjoying it right now.

I really think that my experience honing hundreds of straight razors helped me because getting the knife sharp via hand honing was not nearly as difficult as I thought that it would be. First I colored the bevel with a permanent marker and then I honed the razor on my medium grit Spyderco stone at the angle that matched the factory angle (the permanent marker went away completely). I attempted to hold this angle constant in both directions by using my thumb as a guide for the height of the spine going away from me and my index finger to maintain the height when the razor was coming toward me. After spending a few minutes on the medium the knife felt much sharper and would easily slice through paper. I then moved on to the fine Spyderco bench stone and further polished the bevel with more light passes. Now the knife can easily cut newspaper, shave arm hair, and sticks in my thumbnail when I hold my thumb vertical and the knife 30 degrees from the nail so I assume that the knife is at least moderately sharp; it is definitely a lot sharper that it was before and cuts very comparably to the Spyderco. This early small success has encouraged me to learn as much about the art as I possibly can.

My main question is what DVD’s, books, and articles would those with extensive experience in hand honing knives recommend that I study to learn the fundamentals of the art? Are there any sources of information that are considered "must see or must read?" I am very eager to learn and practice, but would like a little direction as to what are the best sources of information because I am not sure what is good information and what is bad information on the internet. I know that there are several great “sharpening systems” like the Spyderco Sharpmaker and the EdgePro Apex that make getting a great edge very easy, but I am really interested and willing to put the work into learning to do it by hand. Thank you in advance for any help. If anyone has any questions about sharpening and/or shaving with straight razors then I would be happy to answer them and/or direct you to a source of information on the subject.

David
 
The 2 best I've seen are Murray Carter's video and Razor Edge Systems's video.
 
I highly recommend Dave Martells's 2 DVD set, "The Art of Knife Sharpening." He also has several sharpening demonstrations free on youtube.

And welcome to BF, David!
 
I highly recommend Dave Martells's 2 DVD set, "The Art of Knife Sharpening." He also has several sharpening demonstrations free on youtube.

And welcome to BF, David!

Thank you for the suggestions. I am very interested in this DVD but from the description it seems to be geared more toward sharpening Japanese Knives (I could definately be wrong). At this point I am interested in learning the fundamentals of honing American knives and I am not sure how much of the information presented in the DVD is "Japanese Knife Specific", or if it covers information useful honing all types of knives. Please forgive my ignorance but I am not really sure what the difference in the honing techniques are other than the fact that Japanese knives are harder in general with a higher carbon content, use lower bevel angles, and need higher grit stones. At this point I am most interested in learning about choosing and setting the proper bevel angle, holding the proper angle consistent (without the use of a device), raising the burr, polishing the burr, and different finishing techniques. Do you think that the Dave Martells DVD's would fit what I am looking for or are there better choices for me at this point?

David
 
I initially wondered about that too, but rest assured he covers all the bases. In fact, he doesn't touch steel to stone until about 40 minutes into the first disc!:eek: He goes over the theory & mechanics of the edge, the types of bevels, care & selection of waterstones, etc etc. Honestly, the disc would be worthwhile even if it didn't show any sharpening at all! Although the title would be misleading...;) The bulk of the material is geared towards double bevel, or "western" style knives. The key is his method of finding the angle- it's not his invention but I like the way he presents it. Once you have that figured out, a 50/50 grind isn't all that different to shapen than a differentially ground one (eg 90/10, 80/20, etc). There are a few differences when you sharpen a single bevel and he does describe that, too.

I can't say I've seen enough other videos to recommend them. I know Murray Carter's discs are considered a great source of info, but several very sharp guys (no pun intended) say Dave's discs are pretty much all you need.

Btw, I'm interested in the opposite: I am reasonably competent at sharpening knives of many kinds but ignorant of straight razor sharpening. My boss has one he'd like me to try to sharpen (it was his grandfathers) but I confessed I'm not all that sure how to do it.
 
Btw, I'm interested in the opposite: I am reasonably competent at sharpening knives of many kinds but ignorant of straight razor sharpening. My boss has one he'd like me to try to sharpen (it was his grandfathers) but I confessed I'm not all that sure how to do it.

The fundamentals of sharpening a straight razor seem very similar to honing a knife (except for the burr part) in that you establish a sharp edge with the course stones (course for a straight razor is 1K-4K) and then polish the bevel to a great shaving edge. On a straight razor you will need to go to at least a 8K stone to get a smooth shaving razor; I usually go to a 12-15K stone (Chinese 12K, Spyderco UF, Yellow Coticule, or German Escher). What makes sharpening straight razors easier than a knife is the fact that the spine of the razor sets the bevel for you because it always must be in contact with the stone; there are no double bevels or anything else, just the edge angle set by the spine. With straight razors a lighter touch and finer stones must be used because the edge needs to be as sharp and smooth as possible; edge longevity is not as much of an issue because you are not cutting anything really abrasive. If you really want to learn to hone straight razors then let me know what stones you have in your collection; then I could tell you how I would go about sharpening the razor (this might include getting a more proper stone for the job); however, I must warn you that the learning curve is fairly steep and you really need to be willing to put in some time to learn it. On the other hand if your boss just wants that particular razor sharpened then I have a honing service (I am listed on the vendor's list for straight razor sharpeners at the straightrazorplace) and would be willing to do this one for free.

David

P.S. That video seems like exactly what I am looking for at this point so I will be ordering it in the near future. Thanks for the help!
 
The 2 best I've seen are Murray Carter's video and Razor Edge Systems's video.

It looks like there are two Murray Carter videos: "Introduction to Knife Sharpening" and "Advanced Sharpening Techniques". Would you recommend one over the other?
 
On the other hand if your boss just wants that particular razor sharpened then I have a honing service (I am listed on the vendor's list for straight razor sharpeners at the straightrazorplace) and would be willing to do this one for free.


That's very kind of you. I'm not sure if Chef would want that; it's a family heirloom and he only asked me because I've worked with him for awhile. He may allow it to be sent out, or I might give it a go with your guidance...or he may well forget he ever asked me!;) Follow thru isn't always his strong suit. He's impressed by what I do with knives but it was just a passing comment on the razor.
 
I've only seen the first one of Murray's videos. I personally liked it because it has very little editing and shows him sharpen a few knives and you do see all the boring grinding from dull to sharp of a new edge. He uses water stones but you can use his methods with anything he even sharpens on a cinder block and cardboard.
I haven't seen Dave's video, heck I didn't even know he made one. I do know him from my time on another forum and I'm willing to bet he has covered all the bases and it is a good one.
 
Well I just ordered the Dave Martell DVD, so hopefully that will give me a good foundation for hand honing knives. Now I just need to get some more cheap knives that are good enough to take an edge to practice on. Does anyone have any suggestions on what knives would fit the bill? I am thinking that I could pick up some decent quality knives for cheap at a swap meet (where I used to get straight razors) but I would need to know what to look for. WalMart also had a decent selection of relatively cheap but "name brand" knives. Are there any knives from there around the $15-30 range that are known as being made of good steel? If I remember correctly some of the brands that they carried were Gerber, Victorinox, Buck, and Spyderco. I do not want to get any expensive knives until I get a lot more practice sharpening and maintaining inexpensive ones.

Thanks,
David
 
Victorinox they take a great edge and are fairly easy to sharpen. Not only that but SAKs are very useful knives.
 
Honestly, I think with your experience and your early success and the way you are describing what you are doing, no DVD is going to be much of a help to you. You are no beginner and probably already at the stage were only many hours of practice with an open eye to your results and a willingness to experiment will be your best teacher.
 
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