This would be awesome, imagine that, a spyderco military w/a sebenza/pinnacle type handle, it would have the same exact shape handle and blade as the standard military, but the handle would be a dull grey titanium handle, each slab 1/8inch thick, and would just have the pivot, a nested stop pin-a stop pin thats inside the handle, a solid stop, not screwed bye both sides, and no spacer, instead of that big lanyard hole and hub on the military, it would just have one big pivot type bolt, and a sleeve around that to act as the spacer, Hey Sal, any thoughts. Oh, and of coarse a pocket clip, hehe...
Is it just me, or dont you wanna see a Integral lock Military!!!
- Thread starter rage
- Start date
Sal Glesser
Moderator
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- Dec 27, 1998
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Rage - Not a problem for me. Just wsaiting on Chris & Anne. Someday? Maybe? Hopefully?
sal
sal
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- Jun 11, 1999
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Well, as long as Chris can sell all the knives he can make at the dollars he charges, I doubt it
I'd love to see a military integral lock and buy one, too
I'd love to see a military integral lock and buy one, too
Please correct me if I have been misinformed.
The Intergral lock was the brain-child of Chris Reeves. Unfortunately, it was not properly patented (if at all), so other companies such as Benchmade and CRKT "took" the idea and used it in their own knives.
Imitation may be the highest form of flattery, but ethically, I think it would give Spyderco (or any other company) a black-eye in the PR dept, and that's something that I HOPE Spyderco would not do. In my eyes, their reputation is as good as their products, and I would like to see it stay that way.
Instead, I think it would be great if Sal and Chris got together to do a folder. A Chris Reeves production Spyderco with the Integral lock! Ahhh....
The Intergral lock was the brain-child of Chris Reeves. Unfortunately, it was not properly patented (if at all), so other companies such as Benchmade and CRKT "took" the idea and used it in their own knives.
Imitation may be the highest form of flattery, but ethically, I think it would give Spyderco (or any other company) a black-eye in the PR dept, and that's something that I HOPE Spyderco would not do. In my eyes, their reputation is as good as their products, and I would like to see it stay that way.
Instead, I think it would be great if Sal and Chris got together to do a folder. A Chris Reeves production Spyderco with the Integral lock! Ahhh....
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
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- 4,842
I was under the impression that Chris Reeve did not invent the integral lock, although the SEbenza is what popularized it. Can anyone confirm or dispute that?
Anyway, a Military (or Starmate, or ...) with a rolling lock or whatever other cool lock Spyderco is currently working on would be just as great, IMO!
Joe
Anyway, a Military (or Starmate, or ...) with a rolling lock or whatever other cool lock Spyderco is currently working on would be just as great, IMO!
Joe
- Joined
- Jan 13, 1999
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- 1,422
Any idea when the rolling lock will be available for the Military?
Cougar Allen
Buccaneer (ret.)
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"...what on earth would I do with 2 of the same knives?"
I came up with about a dozen answers before I realized it was a rhetorical question ... too much coffee tonight ...
-Cougar Allen :{)
I came up with about a dozen answers before I realized it was a rhetorical question ... too much coffee tonight ...
-Cougar Allen :{)
The trouble with "inventing" the integral lock is that there is no clear line bewteen where a liner-lock ends and where an integral lock begins. Mel Pardue has made knives with .100" "liners" and partial scales, for example - which category do these fall into?
There is little doubt that Reeve popularized this style, and I do feel he should be given credit for it.
Spyderco recently ran into an analogous situation with the locking-bar cutout that they will be using on some lockback knives. People have been modifying knives this way for ages, and perhaps there have even been a few old designs that had it as standard. But it was David Boye who put this into his production folders and popularized it. Spyderco "did the right thing" and gave credit where it was due.
Unless a true patent is involved, giving credit is usually all that's necessary. In my mind the only thing worse than taking a design without giving credit is attempting to take credit for someone else's design. Benchmade did this by producing an integral lock (which incidentally is quite similar to the Sebenza, at least in the handle) without giving Reeve credit, and then applying their own trademarked name, "Mono-Lock," to the system. This is very bad business, IMO, and I encourage folks never to use Benchmade's term for this lock.
-Drew
There is little doubt that Reeve popularized this style, and I do feel he should be given credit for it.
Spyderco recently ran into an analogous situation with the locking-bar cutout that they will be using on some lockback knives. People have been modifying knives this way for ages, and perhaps there have even been a few old designs that had it as standard. But it was David Boye who put this into his production folders and popularized it. Spyderco "did the right thing" and gave credit where it was due.
Unless a true patent is involved, giving credit is usually all that's necessary. In my mind the only thing worse than taking a design without giving credit is attempting to take credit for someone else's design. Benchmade did this by producing an integral lock (which incidentally is quite similar to the Sebenza, at least in the handle) without giving Reeve credit, and then applying their own trademarked name, "Mono-Lock," to the system. This is very bad business, IMO, and I encourage folks never to use Benchmade's term for this lock.
-Drew
Chris Reeve DID invent the integral lock. There's more to the integral lock than just the thickness of the bar; the lock is also part of the handle, which makes it quite different from a liner lock. He never patented it because patents are very costly to defend. He just copyrighted the name integral lock.
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Johnny
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Johnny
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I'm with you Drew, I feel that Benchmade pulled a non-challont(yes I KNOW it's spelled wrong) little quicky.
However, some people call it the Pinnacle; fewer people call it the Mono-Lock; and still fewer people; although I do, call it the Poor Man's Sebenza.
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I need a bigger bucket.
However, some people call it the Pinnacle; fewer people call it the Mono-Lock; and still fewer people; although I do, call it the Poor Man's Sebenza.
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I need a bigger bucket.
- Joined
- Dec 26, 1998
- Messages
- 239
Please, no offence to anyone, but I very much like the military just the way it is. Have a sebenza, had an axis, and other types of locks, like them all, but I still really like the military just the way it is. It is the only liner lock that is half way trustworthy for me. Did modify the spine a bit with my dremel, other wise it is great.
Of course if Sal makes another type of lock, and calls it a military, well I would probably buy one of them as well.
Jim
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What? Another knife? Don't you have enough of those things already?
How many does one person need?
And just what are you going to do with this one that you can't do with the others?
What is the purpose of all these knives anyhow??
Of course if Sal makes another type of lock, and calls it a military, well I would probably buy one of them as well.
Jim
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What? Another knife? Don't you have enough of those things already?
How many does one person need?
And just what are you going to do with this one that you can't do with the others?
What is the purpose of all these knives anyhow??
- Joined
- Oct 3, 1998
- Messages
- 3,264
The Military is not a design I've imagined as an integral lock (or whatever non-trademarked term I should call it), but there are others that I have coveted in that form (Benchmade Mini Spike, for example).
If somebody produced an integral lock hollow ground drop point that looked and felt like a Sebenza, without consulting Chris Reeve, that would be bad karma. Neither a Benchmade Pinnacle nor a CRKT S2 can be mistaken for a Sebenza. The S2 is a radically different shape. The Pinnacle has a different blade and a different approach to machining some "flex" into the titanium locking finger.
Moving up in price instead of down, it would also be hard to mistake a Darrell Ralph Apogee for a Sebenza.
I'm biased in favor of more choices for us knife nuts. If Chris Reeve wants to work with a manufacturer on a collaboration, that would be good. If a manufacturer goes it alone, I would hope to see a good knife that shares mechanical features with a Sebenza, but which is not a Sebenza clone, and which does not violate any Chris Reeve copyrights or trademarks or use his name without permission.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
If somebody produced an integral lock hollow ground drop point that looked and felt like a Sebenza, without consulting Chris Reeve, that would be bad karma. Neither a Benchmade Pinnacle nor a CRKT S2 can be mistaken for a Sebenza. The S2 is a radically different shape. The Pinnacle has a different blade and a different approach to machining some "flex" into the titanium locking finger.
Moving up in price instead of down, it would also be hard to mistake a Darrell Ralph Apogee for a Sebenza.
I'm biased in favor of more choices for us knife nuts. If Chris Reeve wants to work with a manufacturer on a collaboration, that would be good. If a manufacturer goes it alone, I would hope to see a good knife that shares mechanical features with a Sebenza, but which is not a Sebenza clone, and which does not violate any Chris Reeve copyrights or trademarks or use his name without permission.
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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
You bring up another "fine line," Mr. Mattis. That between "giving credit where it's due" and "using a name without permission." While I feel Chris Reeve should be given credit for inspiring the Pinnacle (especially its lock), it may be that he does not want his name in any way associated with it.
I do disagree on the feeling you seem to be expressing that credit is only due when designs are so close as to be mistaken for one another. That is not a "credit due" situation, it is a "lawsuit" situation. Credit is due whenever a design, lock, idea, or anything else directlty influences the creation of a piece. If you can say, "I couldn't have done it without X" or "inspired by X," credit is due. The Pinnacle would never have come about without the existance of the Sebenza - is there any doubt of that?
I'm in similar situation with a folder I'm working on. I examined a Mel Pardue piece like the one I mentioned above. The strength and simplicity of its construction impressed me, so I decided to construct a folder in a similar fashion. My design is completely different, but I will be sure to give Pardue credit for inspiring the construction.
-Drew
I do disagree on the feeling you seem to be expressing that credit is only due when designs are so close as to be mistaken for one another. That is not a "credit due" situation, it is a "lawsuit" situation. Credit is due whenever a design, lock, idea, or anything else directlty influences the creation of a piece. If you can say, "I couldn't have done it without X" or "inspired by X," credit is due. The Pinnacle would never have come about without the existance of the Sebenza - is there any doubt of that?
I'm in similar situation with a folder I'm working on. I examined a Mel Pardue piece like the one I mentioned above. The strength and simplicity of its construction impressed me, so I decided to construct a folder in a similar fashion. My design is completely different, but I will be sure to give Pardue credit for inspiring the construction.
-Drew