- Mar 29, 2007
See, we're back to arguing Not Enough again.
not enough what?
Can't rely on trapping and snaring. . .why? Because you don't have space to ram it up in your butt(stock). Carry a decent kit, and having trap and snare equipment is not a problem.
I won't rely on trapping and snaring in this environment, but it's not something I've brought up. No argument- if you are an experienced trapper, go for it.
Why are you limited to turkey with a rifle? Keep in mind we're talking survival: "Game laws don't allow it" need not apply. If they do, you're not really talking survival.
Okay, this is in direct response - the turkey comment- to a cernterfire rifle caliber. Go right on ahead and shoot a squirrel or dove with a .308 and see what you get out of it in terms of meat. Nope. turkey as about the size you need to have anything left after using a large rifle.
Now, to be completely honest, the shotgun really is the most versatile tool to center around. Much as people (especially on the internet) don't like to admit it, the vast majority of game kills occur at less than 100 yards, closer to 50 yards being the norm. Yes, even out west. People don't HAVE to take 300 yard shots, they do it because they can. These same game animals are taken each year with traditional archery equipment -- 40 yards being LONG shot.
Furthermore, if you are worried about defense, the majority (over 93%) of infantry combat occurs under 100 meters, much of it under 50. A shotgun with rifled slugs will do just fine for the vast majority of hunting and defense use.
Mostly agreed- discounting the silly survival kit thing, which is better placed in your shoulder/game/ammo bag that goes with the shotgun- the shotgun - especially in 20 or 12ga, is going to handle most of your needs more adequately than any single rifle of any caliber.
The .410 gets a bit iffy but I'd argue is still a better choice than a .22 and is used for closer range deer hunting. I'd definitely trust the brenneke 1/4 ounce .410 slug at out to 50 yards.
Now 200 yards with slugs? If you are going for such shots, you need sabot slugs and a rifled barrel. This means you either carry an extra barrel, or you give up pretty much all of your ability to use shot, and truly might as well carry a rifle.
200 yards would be an extreme case, but it is doable with rifled slugs. you have to know how it is going to shoot, which means practice- and it's a set piece steady rest, careful- and iffy- shot to make. But mostly irrelevant to the argument as 150 yards as a reasonable max is dandy. I'm aware of the extreme drop and holdover necessary at longer ranges. BUt it's not any harder than a 300 yard shot with a .45-70, and you can go to any cowboy shoot and see those. It's a matter of learning the weapon, the ranges, and the holds.
The real detriment to a shotgun is the weight and bulk of the ammo. However, I don't think anyone is dumb enough to think they are going to survive very long with just this shotgun and buttstock survival kit, so the need to carry large amounts of animals really isn't there.
The two main failings of the video project are in ammunition type/capacity and the crazy little kit.
In truth, I'd be a lot happier carrying 100 rounds of 20ga than 100 rounds of 12ga. Yet another reason (and there are many!) that I prefer the 20ga. The new 28ga slug adds some elements of joy to carrying that, as well.
Even with the bulk of the ammo, if you are looking for food, the shotgun is going to be your most versatile choice. In terms of ammo- yeah, you can take a LOT more .22LR or .22WMR than you can 20 ga. But I would posit that you'll get more out of your 20ga ammo- both in terms of hunting and defense.
This is another area where the often ignored .410 has advantages. Accepting the limitations, it's a servicable caliber for hunting upland fowl, small ground (and tree) mammals, and for closer range shots at deer. I'd argue that with the prevalence of decent ammo choices due to the saiga, hs410, and judge market- it's perfectly adequate for self defense in situations not involving platoon scale combat.
Carrying 200 rounds for a .410 pump is going to be cake. Accessorizing won't be, but that's solvable.
For reference, I have taken most upland game, bunny, hare, squirrel, snake, and coyote with a .410 - I have not taken a deer with one. (never tried.)
To bring up another related topic- the shotgun/rifle combo hasn't been mentioned. I think the .410/.22 pairing is silly because they are used for much the same game. a .410 over a .44 magnum would make me happiest, but I've seen things like .30-30/20ga and such that would work out reasonably well. Again- no platoon combat.