IT LIVES! The Outsider ain't just a blueprint.

Jim March

Jim March

Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
Joined
Oct 7, 1998
Messages
3,018
outscan3.jpg


Design concept: me
Design assistance (mainly "heft and balance" issues): Harald Moeller
Maker: Harald Moeller
Materials: 1/4" ATS34 heat-treated by Harald using Ernie Mayer's suggested low-temp cycle plus cryo, black linen Micarta grips.

My baby. I was trying to get a big, fast blade capable of "overhead smash" power yet retain the speed and most of the stabbing power of a good "light Bowie" like the Black Cloud Bowie4, Mad Dog Cougar/Panther family or similar. The short grip allows it to socket "inside" the palm to aid tip maneuverability.

Influences include elements of the REKAT Hobbit, the Spyderco Civilian, the Mad Dog Shrike, the Black Cloud Bowie4, a Kukuri, grip related to a Puuko, etc. The single biggest influence was the Jaws4, built by Ernie Mayer of Black Cloud, designed by Laci Szabo. It has a short grip, an upper guard somewhat like The Outsider, a slender single-point "harpy" blade of 6" and a lower guard that can also act as a "trigger" for increased retention. What it didn't have was anything like this heft.

Over in the "design" forum at knifeforums you can look up old posts that include early blueprints. Harald did two plexiglas mockups including one close to my first blueprint, the other more like "where he thought I wanted to go". He was right; I modified that one somewhat with moldable epoxy scales and got the "spike" down as radical as you see here, dropping the same 1" from the prime cutting edge as the lower guard.

Scott Evans of Edgeworks is sheathing it now; the Kydex sheath will be a "pop out the side" design similar to an ISPC gun rig; the draw will involve moving the grip 2" sideways then rolling it 1" up and out to clear the tip.

It lives.

My martial arts teacher, Dale Seago called it a "Klingon marital aid". It was actually NOT built as a "movie replica" and every detail has a tactical purpose.

Oh ya.

Jim March (smiling and waving at Scott with a pained expression of urgency...
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)

(post updated to reflect new graphic URL)

[This message has been edited by Jim March (edited 14 February 1999).]
 
Jim,

If you can live with out the knife for a couple days, send it to me so we can get a really good pic and put it on the cover!

Congrats it looks awesome!

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Best Regards,
Mike Turber
BladeForums Site Owner and Administrator
Lead - Follow or get out of the way!
www.wowinc.com



 
Was the name inspired by a Dean Koontz novel?

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Joshua
A wayward wanderer.

[This message has been edited by Feneris (edited 23 November 1998).]
 
The name came from an OLD discussion pre-dating this happy place on the REKAT Hobbit in which I called it "an attempt to build the ultimate "insider"" - meaning a knife for reverse-grip very close range work "on the inside" of an attacker's arc.

That led me to wonder what the opposite would look like, an "outside specialty fighter" for point-forward grips.

Mike: Obviously, I want to play with it first but I'll remember the offer and probably do it.

Jim March
 
All you need now are some Klingon slanders.
biggrin.gif


Now, exactly what're you gonna say again when you get stopped? Prune pit picker? Hehe!

And how much did it cost you for the entire knife and sheath?
 
Very nicely done, Jim. Could you explain the practical, tactical rationale of the dual tips for me?

Jack
 
That knife is a testament to the art of the custom knifemaker. Harald Moeller should be congratulated on pulling it off.

This project of March's is the epitome of a
custom knife.

1)Customer has a need or a whim.

2)Customer makes a drawing and works hand in hand with cooperative, kindly custom maker for final execution.

3)Customer gets knife in timely fashion is is happy as a clam.

Shouldnt they all be this fun?

Everyone, go out there and call Harald Moeller and give him your ideas, no matter how bizarre -its obvious they guy loves what he does and will go to an extreme to please a customer. he is a true CUSTOM maker, and believe me there aint many of them around.




------------------
++++++++++++++++++++++++

Anthony P. Lombardo
-will destroy knives for
food-

 
No argument here! Harald was a *great* collaborator, he didn't put his ego "in the way" yet he helped me tweak it "in the direction I was headed".

Highly recommended, absolutely A1.

Jim March
 
From a box over the bench where I do my most specialized Kydex work I keep hearing a faint and slightly muffled sound; "Daddy … Daddy … I want my Daddy".

Jim, … Somebody misses you.

The "Outsider" is excellent piece. The workmanship is among the best I have ever seen (and I have seen a few). At the moment I don't have the time for a proper review so I will give just a few words until another day.
When I first saw Jim's design (on paper) I thought that Jim was after a look. When it arrived at my shop and I held it for the first time I thought that the handle was too small. However, as I continued to hold it and examined the balance and feel while trying to envision how I would use such a weapon … the light came on. Its size is that of a knife but the balance is of a short sword. With the index finger in the handle notch the remaining portion of the handle rotates in the palm. This combined with the forward weight of the piece makes for extremely fast and powerful snap cuts. And I do mean powerful !! Next I moved my hand forward on the grip and wrapped my index finger around the chiol. This changed the balance to that of a knife and provided better control of the point for thrusting. It is an extremely well thought out design that provides for the effective execution of a multiple of fighting blade styles. (Much more than I have time to talk about at the moment.) I am far more impressed than I thought I could be from initial glimpses of the drawings. The "Outsider" is a serious weapon.

 
Kewl!

Scott, there's one thing you may have missed. If you're in the "rearward, fast-chop" grip you can lay the palm edge of your off hand across the "thumbramp" area and do blocks of "short heavy club" class weapons on the lower guard. After that trap, the off-hand can roll around and grab the enemy shaft while you nail 'em with now-disengaged blade. The two times I've been threatened with weapons on the street it's been claw hammers and a 12" Cresent wrench, hence there's a "gameplan" built in to deal with the suckers.

This sort of "support the blade's spine with the off hand" is seen in Bando/Kukuri techniques. The odd position of the upper guard allows this with a double-edge blade.

Jim March
 
Jim,

Neat looking knife, but I am curiuos as to how you are going to carry it, seeing that you live in the Peoples RepubliK of Kalifornia. If you get caught with it concealed, you might find your self shot full of holes by the local PD, and if you live, you'll be sharing a cell with some sicko...oh well....What I really wanted to know is if you are planning to commision a large folder with that particular blade design, in the "Grande" size catagory (6-8" or so). That would be a neat toy....

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Off in search of Knirvana....yek


[This message has been edited by Yekim (edited 26 November 1998).]
 
!@#$%^& double post.......grrrrr


[This message has been edited by Yekim (edited 26 November 1998).]
 
Hmm, what a nice looking knife! How long did the whole design & collaborate process take? Gee, that looks like it could do severe damage to someone if the user chose to use it in that way.

-aaron
 
Well lesse. I did the initial design concept sketch around late July. I put it out for quotes within a week, Harald Moeller's initial bid was $350. I picked him due to fast EMail response and he's done pieces in the same materials, similar construction methods (notably this piece at http://www.c-zone.net/revrhorn/hmoeller/pic11.jpg with somewhat like the level of complexity) and a very broad line of "standard products". His Viper throwers got universal rave reviews so I figured he oughta know balance.

Within two weeks I recieved a pair of plexiglas mockups, one scaled like I'd originally figured and another bigger, with more overall "heft". I spent four days with it, adding grips, altering it, adjusting the feel, then sent it back. The pics show a piece *very* close to that final mockup.

We were on target for delivery by Oct. 3rd when we ran into a major glitch. His steel supplier slipped him 440C instead of ATS34. Which would have been fine except heat-treating it with the wrong recipe destroyed it...Harald started over and finished the piece three weeks ago. It went straight to Scott Evans from there, Scott will have it out the door soon.

Oh well, excrement occurs.

It'll be worth the wait. Harald's lead time is a LOT less than many others, the steel screwup wasn't his fault. I'd recommend him in a heartbeat.

Jim March
 
Jim,
I have took the time to view the rest of the work Mr. Moeller has displayed at http://www.c-zone.net/revrhorn/hmoeller and it would appear to me that you had definetly picked the right maker. It was worth the clicks to view the rest of his work. Oh, and by the way, it was worth drive over to Edge Works to SEE the Outsider
smile.gif
Happy Thanksgiving!

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>)-RadarMan-(<


 
Ohhhh...you barsterd!
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I ain't even fondled it yet, and two regulars on the forum HAVE!

Sigh. It ain't fair, it ain't.
smile.gif
<-note grin!

So waddya think?

Jim March
 
Now HOLD it...I no-BS hit "submit" ONCE! WTF? - JM

[This message has been edited by Jim March (edited 26 November 1998).]
 
Jim,
Would it be a lie if I said I didn't touch it? Scott is very protective of his clients knives...... My first thought was, "very interesting", my second thought was verbal. "So Scott, what does one do with it?". Scott quickly extolled the virtues of this "knife" on me, him being better trained in the use of this type of weapon, many of the design features became clear.
One of the guys drug a bear out of the woods behind Scotts shop last week and he quickly explained that as tempting as it looked Mr. March would not be happy if we gutted a bear with his knife! the Outsider really begs for flesh!!!

Warning!! The following is off topic but I can't help it..... A record 800 lb. black bear was killed in North Carolina this month, it was eating discarded hog carcasses!! What a pig!

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&gt;)-RadarMan-(&lt;


 
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