japenese water stone question

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ubet

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Nov 20, 2009
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I have an izula and a rc5 in the mail. Have always used arkansas stones to sharpen everything and was looking at other/better options, after reading some posts about japanese water stones. Was wondering if these would work good on my esee knives, and also good on some s30v (?) knives I have. Or would something like the dmt diamond stones be better? I dont want any gadgets to sharpen with, I sharpen everything freehand and want to stay that way and stay with stones.
Thanks in advance

japanese stones

http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Naniwa-Super-Stone-P290C97.aspx
 
For what it is worth, I have heard nothing but praise for those japanese stones but I have never used them before so I guess that's not much help.
 
I use myself Naniwa Chosera Stones for my RC-3 and my Junglas.
They work very good for these knifes. And also with all my other knifes, and some knifes of friends which i sharpen too.
I get rasor sharp edges with only a few strokes.

The Choseras are some of the best stones you can buy.

I finish with a few strokes over a leather with some grinding paste.
 
Freehand sharpening is the ONLY way to find independence and performance satisfaction for the serious tool or cutlery user. Though jigs and gadgets may have their place in some technologies, I loathe the thought of any avid knife user enslaving themselves and their potential skills to contraptions. Good for you on the freehand! :)

All of the tools in the wood, leather, and ranch butcher shop are sharpened freehand using a variety of stones and abrasives that I feel give me the best cutting characteristics for what the tool is intended for (one type of stone doesn't do it all). Water stones are certainly a favorite for the cutting tools in the wood shop, kitchen cutlery, and some types of outdoor knives.

I have a rather large collection of Norton bench oil stones (collected over the many years) that I prefer to sharpen my ESEE knives on. These oil stones are super fast from dull to razor sharp, and I simply finish up on the fine stone before some light stropping. This works well for me on this type of knife (I have also used my slack belt grinder on the larger blades). I rarely have the time and patience to use Arkansas stones these days (they cut slow!), except for finishing, polishing, maintaining some types of edges (they are great for this).

Water stones can be aggressive (fast cutting), or tediously slow with the higher grits. Choosing the right stone to begin with is a bit more simple with general outdoor knives. In my collection of water stone sets, I use the Shapton, Norton, and King stones the most often. With outdoor knives, I usually reach for the inexpensive, fast-cutting King stones http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/Set-of-3-Japanese-Water-Stones-3A/productinfo/406-003A/. Though the lower grits wear quickly (dish out), they are fairly fast and efficient. Many folks like using a flattening or "truing" stone to maintain their water stones. Sandpaper (100 to 220) on a flat surface (piece of heavy glass) works well too. I have a flat cinder block in the shop that flattens a dished out water stone very, very quickly. I check my water stones before every use to make sure they are flat. Some guys choose to work around the dished out areas on the stone to extend the life of the stone (they sharpen on the very ends), but I can afford more stones once they are used up, I think. :)

The proper water stones should work well on your Esee knives and I have never had a problem sharpening any of the higher alloy steels on water stones, including the S30V that you mention (I haven't tried CPM 3V on water stones yet).

These two blades were finished up on a King 6000 with a Nagura stone slurry. Moving up to an 8000 or 12000, a little stropping with a polishing compound would take that polish even further...if desired.
ijknives10.jpg
 
I was thinking of using the 220, 1k, 5k, and 12k. Are naniwa good water stones, if not whats a good brand?
 
I use the King brand water stones aswell for my v-edged knives. They're good stones and pretty affordable. They are soft and will dish easily requiring you to flatten them often, but it's no big deal. That softness actually makes them very forgiving in use imo. Stay below 1000 grit for nicked edges or reshaping a bevel. If they edge is not in bad shape, you can generally start with 1000 grit and move up from there. Naturally, the higher you go in grit, the more refined and polished your edge will be. If you do go with the King brand, don't forget to pre-soak for at least half an hour.
 
I'm Very..VERY much in agreement with what Dannyboy Leather posted here. And have the same feelings for oddball High dollar Gagets (sp. of Gagets with intent) I have used a Norton India combination stone for over 40 years. (I have other Nortons now as well) And I can use an old belt (rough side) with a bit of red rouge on it for a strop. Or I at times use a 1000-8000 japanese water stone on the edge if I want to have it a polished edge. Any way I do it, It allways comes out as a hair popper. (I have even shaved my neck *No Joke*) to prove how sharp stones can get an edge with a Very short time, and cheap way to do your blades. IMHO I think every blade owner should have the very basic skill of using a stone. Plus they can go with ya anywhere. One thing, no "Kit" parts, dodads, right set up for certain blades bother. A stone has been used for 1000s of years, why stop now? Keep our skills and our blades tip top. An average blade takes me 30-40 secs. And its done & ready. One of my nicknames is edgy, and its not because I'm nervous. have fun. enjoy. edgy :thumbup:
 
ubet said:
Are nortons water stones?
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Norton makes a variety of sharpening stone types , waterstones included. The majority of them though are silicon carbide and aluminum oxide or a combination of both ( double sided med./fine for example. They also make a diamond paddle unit similar to DMT's double sided diafold.
Their waterstones are slower wearing than comparable Japanese ones and I have great success with them , especially the 1000 grit. The A.O. and Sic. C. ones are extremely slow wearing and do a great job as well for coarser grit stones.
 
hiwa said:
Norton makes a variety of sharpening stone types , waterstones included. The majority of them though are silicon carbide and aluminum oxide or a combination of both ( double sided med./fine for example. They also make a diamond paddle unit similar to DMT's double sided diafold.
Their waterstones are slower wearing than comparable Japanese ones and I have great success with them , especially the 1000 grit. The A.O. and Sic. C. ones are extremely slow wearing and do a great job as well for coarser grit stones.
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+1 On the Norton 1000 grit water-stone. I can get some hair whittling results with just it and some CrO. Right now their 220/1000 is my only benchstone. They work very fast on my Izula and other mild steels, but as far as S30V goes while they work much better than Alluminum Oxide or Arkansas, I think diamond is the way to go if you need to worry about steels like that. Not to mention you don't need to worry about flattening.

Nice thing about Norton is that they work without producing a slurry and you only have to soak them for about ten minutes. I think their 220 wears out a pretty quickly though; and avoid their flattening stone, you'll spend enough time truing the actual flattening stone on sandpaper you'll just start using the sandpaper for the stones themselves. Which is better anyway, since Norton actually recommends using sandpaper anyway; 220 grit for the 220 and 1000 grit stones, and 400-600 grit for the 4000 and 8000 grit. I actually like to use 320 for my 1000 if I'm just doing a touch-up, because the stone cuts so aggressively I can usually finish without exposing new stone surface ( that's not finished as fine as it would be with 320 ) and get a smoother finish than I would normally. Doesn't work up past 320 grit, but it's a nice way to get a little more out of the 1000 side.

Here, this is a good brochure/manual on them: http://www.nortonconsumer.com/document.aspx?docId=205538
 
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Are the dmt diamond stones a good route to go, then get a 5000grit water stone and a 12k grit too? I dont know if I want to worry about the wearing on them, my arksansas dont wear, so Im not sure if I want to deal with that. I dont know ANYTHING about stones, other than all I have ever used is arkansas, but their is a lot of choices out there I see.

ps, for some reason my izula wont sharpen if my coarse and medium arksansas are wet, but my hard stone has to be wet to finish. Just thought that was weird.
 
ubet said:
Are the dmt diamond stones a good route to go, then get a 5000grit water stone and a 12k grit too? I dont know if I want to worry about the wearing on them, my arksansas dont wear, so Im not sure if I want to deal with that. I dont know ANYTHING about stones, other than all I have ever used is arkansas, but their is a lot of choices out there I see.

ps, for some reason my izula wont sharpen if my coarse and medium arksansas are wet, but my hard stone has to be wet to finish. Just thought that was weird.
Click to expand...

A couple of links that may help with the water stones:

Which water stone should I choose? http://www.fine-tools.com/japwas.htm

Care and use of Japanese water stones. http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/waterstonesharpening.aspx

If you are new to water stones and not sure about them, there are a number of combination stones at reasonable prices that might be worth your time to check out. You can mix and match grits and stone sizes as you choose.

http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=33009&cat=1,43072,43071&ap=1

I have a combination set of Norton stones (among other Norton water stones) in one of my kits that provides four grit options in a compact two stone system. A little more money than some combination stones but a good value and investment if you do much sharpening. http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Water-Stone-Kit-P94C18.aspx

Most all stones "wear", BTW. The faster they cut, the more they wear. It really just depends on how much grinding, sharpening, honing you do with a particular stone. Yes, I have an old 12" black Arkansas that never seems to wear as it is used only for finishing up an already sharp shop blade for either wood or leather working. However, Hades would freeze over before you could establish a burr on a dull edge with one. Myself, I like to sharpen quickly without fooling around with needless ceremony. :)

Diamond stones work well (I have a pile of these too) and, diamond stones will wear also. Remember to use little pressure when sharpening with a diamond stone. Let the highly abrasive diamonds do the cutting in a gentle manner. If you sharpen with a diamond stone under lots of pressure, you will prematurely wear out the expensive stone. I have a couple of large diamond bench stones that were used the wrong way by a few students. Over about a three week period, they managed to take a coarse diamond stone (DMT) down to the point that the stone is actually smooth and couldn't scratch a fingernail. The next time around, I made 'em bring their own tools. Heavy-handed and diamonds don't go together.
 
Dannyboy

Those are a couple of the most beautiful Puukkos I have ever seen. What are they? I am especially intrigued by the bottom one in the picture, the one with the solid wood handle. That is amazing.

Thanks.

QB
 
I've had ok luck with stones. The diamond (metal) sharpeners seem to bring the ESEEs back to life really easily.
 
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