Ka-Bar Dozier Hunter - a new standard?

R

RH

Joined
Jan 31, 1999
Messages
2,094
I was fortunate enough to find a Dozier Folding Hunter for sale by a member a few weeks ago, and I am very impressed and pleased with it so far. This is the knife CRKT tried to build with the MoSkeeter, but fell short in a bunch of ways.

Pro's:
- blackened steel reversible clip
- tip-up carry (personal preference)
- high-quality steel
- lightweight
- not "scary" looking
- sharp, and sharpenable
- adjustable pivot
- wide (measuring from top to bottom) handle gives good purchase when opening
- lockback (I hate linerlocks)
- great ergos, high handle to blade ratio

Con's:
- the only beef I have is the opener. I really prefer a hole/slot, or at least a two-sided stud.

This knife simply blows me away for a $19.95 retail price! This is a knife designed by one of the most famous knifemakers, known for his no-nonsense working designs. This pattern is probabaly his best known and most ergonomic.

Measuring this knife against the Delica and CS Voyager, this knife overcomes a lot of the weaknesses in the other designs. The pocket clip is smoother than CS, as is the opening action. The wide handle makes it much easier to thumb open than the skinny CS, and the handle design lets you comfortably hang off a pinky if you want. The spearpoint (my version) eliminates the Delica's achilles heel - it's too pointy and easily breakable tip. It also looks more "normal", since it is the same shape as a SAK blade. Let's face it, to the uninitiated, the humpbacked Delica blade can be pretty wierd and scary looking. (The benefit is idiot-proof and variety of opening methods, and homebrew "waving", but it sure is ugly.) The design of the clip cutout keeps it in place better than the Delica's, another common failing in the Spydercos.

So, I am left with 2 questions:

1) How can KaBar afford to pay a top name to collaborate in this brand new design, tool up a new production line, and sell this high quality FRN lockback for <$20 ?

2) How can Spyderco and CS get away with charging $40+ for 10-year old designs in the same class, and in some respects are inferior to the Ka-Bar knife????? :confused: :mad:

I take back every recommendation I've made of the Delica as a good entry point into high quality knives. That distinction now belongs to the Dozier, at half the price to boot.
 
AUS8A at 56-58. A well tested and proven material in this class (Spyderco, CS, SOG).
 
In all fairness, it should be noted that Spyderco continually updates the Delica/Endura. Since I discovered Spyderco, the blade steel has been changed four times from GIN-1, AUS-8, ATS-55, VG-10. The clip has been re-designed also. Furthermore, the Delica and Endura are made in Japan, not lower wage Taiwan. To me, the miracle is that Spydercos, especially the USA made ones like the Native and Military, can be sold so cheaply.

As for the Ka-Bar Dozier Folding Hunter, I think that it is a great knife and great value, however, it uses AUS-8 blade steel, not VG-10 or S30V like Spyderco uses on the Delica and Native respectively. Also, you can never ignore the fact that labor costs are lower in Taiwan and the PRC than Japan and the USA.
 
I picked up one of these Ka-Bar Doziers also, as an "el cheapo" knife to carry while traveling on business.

I agree... design and execution are very solid for a $20 knife.
 
Originally posted by RH
How can KaBar afford to pay a top name to collaborate in this brand new design, tool up a new production line, and sell this high quality FRN lockback for <$20 ?

I take back every recommendation I've made of the Delica as a good entry point into high quality knives. That distinction now belongs to the Dozier, at half the price to boot.
Click to expand...
I think the affordability aspect is explained by the Taiwanese manufacture. But it's still a good trick. Assuming the retailer makes 25%, and the distributor does also, and so does Ka-Bar, that means the Taiwanese must sell this out of the factory for maybe $6.

I'd tend to agree that this is a really good knife for the person wanting an entry level at the $20 point. AUS-8 leaves me flat (or easily "rolled" I should say), but not at $20.

The one thing I would add to augment RH's comments is that with respect to the pointest of the 3 models (not the "spear", I think they call it the "drop point" but it's the pointiest)... it does not have a particularly optimized blade/handle ratio. The spear might be better optimized. But it looks like they could have left about another 1/8" to 3/16" on the blade length on this one, but it would have required a slight mod to the backspacer near the butt (and I'd have to assume the handles for the 3 blades are identical for cost reasons).

I like the thumb stud myself.

Blade came well and deeply hollow ground. Very pointy. Fairly sharp, but I don't complain about knives not sharp outta the box since I'm going to reprofile and sharpen anyway. But bad grinds suck (Kershaw Vapor had a blunted tip, took a good while to reprofile to rid the knife of the goof), but this Ka-Bar was ground well.

Overall, super bargain, and "Blade" mag did in fact give this knife the "Best Bargain of the Year" award. They did actually get it right. (can't say that about a lot of what they do/write).
 
anthony,
You twice mention the "lower wage" aspect of Tiawan vs. Japan...but what does that have to do with quality? I pay for a product, not a factory location (unless we're talking Made in USA).

Also, is ATS-55 or VG10 twice the steel that AUS 8A is? Will it cut twice as good, last twice as long, keep twice the edge, get twice as sharp twice as fast? Will the average user notice the difference?

Maybe I should not classify the Delica with the Dozier, since they have updated it to the point that it is no longer an entry-level knife. (?) That may be the case - the FRN Spydercos and Cold Steels on which they built their businesses are now the "2nd tier", replaced on the entry level by the Vapor, Dozier, etc.

That's a shame, because there is a huge market of people who know the $5 knockoff is junk, but who can't see paying $40 for a knife.
 
I didn't say that wage differential had anything to do with the quality of manufacture. I simply said that it explains the price difference. As for the steel difference, no Vg-10 or S30V are notr literally 2X better than AUS-8. This is where one gets into diminishing returns, after a certain point relatively small increases in performance may be increasingly expensive. The added performance may not be worth it to you. If not, stick with AUS-8 Sanvik, 12C27, 440B, or so other similar steel. All of the steels I mentioned are solid material, they are just not high performance steels.
 
Originally posted by JDEEBLADE
What steel is used in the blade? How hard is it? And will it hold an edge?
Click to expand...
AUS-8 at Rc56-58?

It sorta holds an edge. But we're talking $20 here. You could get an Opinel for 1/2, but you also get the Opinel lock thingie.
 
Better late then ever as I was doing some research. You say $20 and base your appraisal on that price - well when it comes down under we pay $60 Aust thats around $38-$40 US depandant on the vagaries of the currency market. Now my question is - is the Kbar dozier value if I by one in Australia - or to put it another way would you pay $40US for the knife.
 
$40? hmmm...probabaly not, but let me explain. I'm a very selective (aka "cheap") knife buyer. I look for trades, sales, used, and other bargains. My first "good" knife was my Delica, and I paid internet retail for it (about $40). Most of my collection is in the <$30 range, including several folders with G10 and ATS steels, but I accumulated them thru sales and trades.

I had to reprofile the tip of my Delica after it broke, and the clip does not stay put no matter how much I tighten the chicago screws. The Dozier is at least as good as the Delica, for half the price. Bottom line, if the Dozier is $40 in your corner of the earth, and the Delica is $80, go for the Dozier without a second thought. Sounds like it's just a question of markup. If $40 is the cheapest "decent" knife down under, then the Dozier is still a best buy at $40.
 
Looks like a good knife. If I see one at one of the knife shops in town I will pick it up for using at work. I have absolutely no problem with AUS-8A as a blade steel on a knife of this price.
 
It's my birthday gift of choice these days. I have one myself even though I don't like small knives. Inexpensive yes, but cheap, no. Kudos to Ka bar Dozier.
 
Who cares what blade steel it is In shop talk its been talked about many times blade steel matters very little for the average user the HT being right is what really matters. Sharpening a knife isnt that hard if you cant sharpen the knife you more then likely shouldnt have it. Every year the knives get better and the prices drop and it will continue as long as labor stays cheap and the machinery gets better and faster.
 
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