Kel-Tec Sub 2000 as Glock Accessory

S

Stiletto Raggio

Joined
Jan 29, 2000
Messages
546
First I want to thank everyone who helped in my last post in this arena. For those who aren't familiar with my quest for firepower, after I turn 21 in 30 short weeks, I will be getting a couple Glock 40 cals and will be ordering hi-caps for them. My dad mentioned the Sub 2000 as a "survival rifle" and it looks like it would be a great utility carbin and compliment the Glocks quite well. I was wondering about a few things, though:

a) Are they accurate enough to stay on a man-sized target at 100 meters?

b) Are they reliable with all sorts of ammo?

c) What accessories are worth getting for it?

d) Is the trigger bad, and if so, is it easy to work on?

e) Do Scherer hi-caps work well in them?

I am probably going to get a G23 and G35, and want a carbine to keep with them so I will have a full system with ammo and mag interchangability. I have seen the tactical lights they offer and they look pretty decent. Your help is much appreciated.
 
Not exactly answering your questions, but for what it's worth ... IMHO ammunition compatibility is a greatly overrated advantage. It's very convenient for an army, but for an individual ... a pistol-caliber carbine is a pretty poor substitute for a real rifle, and what's the advantage? A little extra space in your sock drawer? It's not that hard to find enough space in your home to store both pistol and rifle ammunition.
 
The real advantage is ammunition compatability. That combined with compactness and light weight are very important to this application. As I have said in my other post (Saving for Glocks... which one?), I will be undergoing training to gain "reserve officer" status in my local PD. Thier sidearm is a .40 Glock, and I will be purchasing my own. I would have bought my own .40 Glocks regardless of what the police use, but this is a convenient situation. I want a compact carbine to keep with my Glocks in a case. The Kel-Tec is a neat design, not too expensive, and has the ability to use the same ammo and mags as my sidearms.

Given a choice, I would take my Benelli for house work, my AR for streets and my M1A for long range, but this "utility carbine" will do a lot of jobs reasonably well. I can discretely keep it in a briefcase, suit case or duffle bag in the car, along with my larger sidearm and a half dozen magazines, first aid kit, jumper cables, road flares, a hatchet, a SF shovel, a crowbar or anything else that might be useful in a bad spot. I may get a folding stock for my 870 so I can have a carbine and a shotgun in a small case, but that may be a little excessive.

One final thing: I can keep the Kel-Tec with me when I travel. While there are many places that require special registration to even own a handgun, I don't know of anywhere in the Union that a rifle is illegal.
 
Originally posted by Stiletto Raggio
While there are many places that require special registration to even own a handgun, I don't know of anywhere in the Union that a rifle is illegal.
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Slightly OT, but if you bring it into Massachusetts without a Class A or B pistol permit, it is illegal.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that owing to the use of detachable mags and the pistol grip configuration, it's flat out illegal to bring a new one into California.
 
A rifle requires a handgun permit in Mass? Look what the cradle of the revolution has become...

And do we still count Kalifornia as part of the Union? I thought that to be part of the Union you had to respect, enforce, and abide by the law as set forth in the Constitution...

Thanks, though. I'll be sure to look out for those traps. Hell, I'm not even allowed to "import" certain kinves into CA and MA.
 
I was going to say... it depends on the rifle.

IF you have an AR/Benelli/M14 then you are pretty much set on the longarm end. The .40, however, even from the carbine length bbl will still not give you the stopping power of the others. And I'll give the preemptive "no I would not want to be hit with a .40."

I'm not sure in which scenario you envision deploying this, but if as a RO you see yourself using this, check with the chief as many agencies will dictate when/where/what you carry. The KT sounds like a good idea, especially if you only want to carry .40. Personally, I'd much rather be making the transition to an AR or 870 if all hell breaks loose rather than the KT.
 
The lights are not available yet.

My 9mm folds up and fits into a camelback along with 4 Scherer mags.

I can consistantly hit a man-sized target at 100 yards with it.

The Glock 17 factory and aftermarket mags feed just fine. So do the Scherer mags.

Pre-ban semiauto 9mm Ar-15s are cool, but very expensive. My 9mm Kel-Tec may not be as cool, but it cost 1/3 of a 9mm AR and hits as well.

Compatabiltiy in ammumition is over rated but if the opportunity exists it's an interesting option, and ammo and magazine compatabiltiy is very interesting.
 
I have only heard a litte about the MechTech conversion units: http://www.mechtechsys.com/ but it's all been good. Maybe well worth looking into.

GLOCK1.jpg


-SB
 
I thought about the MechTech conversion, but it would require me to give up one of my Glocks to use it. For the price of the CCU, I could have the Kel-Tec, a tac light and one of the new folding scope mounts ( http://www.geocities.com/johnhhenderson/keltecscopemount.html ). The Kelt-Tec is lighter and more compact than the MechTech and comes with open sights. In my mind, the only reason to get a MechTech is for a better trigger pull, and I am willing to live with a slightly less refined weapon given the apparent advantages.

Another thing I would use the Kel-Tec for is camping/backpacking, like the Marlin camp guns were designed for. The idea of keeping it in a CamelBak is great, too.
 
Originally posted by SharpBits
I have only heard a litte about the MechTech conversion units: http://www.mechtechsys.com/ but it's all been good. Maybe well worth looking into.

-SB
Click to expand...


I second the choice on the Mechtech carbine conversion unit. Its a real accurate sucker with a red dot scope. As far as compatability with Glock. It'll only accept the Large Glock frames at this time. SO the 23 or 27 would not switch over. I'm sure its in the works.

I'd also look into This quick attachable stock (All NFA rules apply, check local laws)
 
STAY AWAY FROM AFTERARKET MAGAZINES!! If you are just using them for plinking, then they will work fine, because a failure to feed will not matter. However, if you are planning on having the Hi Caps for self defense, they are too risky. I have tried several brands of magazine for my G23, and all of them had problems with feeding reliably. Granted, they may shoot 100 rounds flawlessly, but then misfeed once(this is being very generous with the numbers. Most are much worse). I have never had a problem with my factory magazine. Ask yourself, what good are 13 rounds if only 3 will load before you have to clear a jam? This could mean the difference between life and death. Do you really want to tempt Murphy's Law? If you are looking for Hi caps for your G23, search for Genuine Factory and be prepared to pay a hefty price since not many were made prior to the Brady Bill, not to mention they are a Bi+ch to find. Did I mention, STAY AWAY FROM AFTERMARKET MAGAZINES?

Mike
 
I am avoiding the butt stock additions. They still require the use or conversion of an existing Glcok, and I would be asking for trouble as far as "intent to create an NFA weapon".

If I get any non-glock hi-caps, it will be the 29+2 Scherer mags, and they will be for fun shooting. I bought a few all polymer G19 mags for 13 bucks a piece and they are pretty crappy. I think I'll be utilitzing the "damaged or broken magazine body" clause of the ban to buy some new replacement drop free bodies. I will then destroy the old magazine bodies, keeping me clear of any legal complications.

Any thoughts on the Plus two mag bases? I'll carry a flush fit on my 23, but all of my 22/35 mags will have the plus two extensions. If you aren't going for concealment, why not go for firepower?
 
To answer the question about the plus 2 extension and why you see them on the very small glock. They can have them because the capasity isn't bumped over 10 rounds with it installed. If you put the plus 2 extension on a post ban magazine that has 10 rounds already, you are in a sense making it a high cap mag which is illegal. Be careful about trying to skirt the law. Could land you in big trouble. Same would happen if you had a LEO friend buy you a post ban high cap mag. I looked into it because the price isn't jacked up. However the magazine is stamped "For Law Enforcement Use Only". If you get caught with this magazine, you can get into trouble also.

Mike
 
I was under the impression that there were major internal differences on 10 round Glock mags, and that changing base plates wouldn't do anything. After all, if the follower is the only thign different, how hard owuld it be to make 10 round look-alike hi-caps? I don't think Glock would put themselves in that position.
 
Well, the 10 rndrs cannot be converted due to a thicker wall that only allows the rounds to single stack instead of double stack. That is the main difference. Also, if I'm not mistaken, the +2 plate would only add 1 extra round because of this difference. Again, not worth the legal complications for 1 extra round.

Mike
 
just 'messing around' i tried a GLOCK brand +2 floorplate (FP)on a std 10 rnd mag from a 32, it didnt add even one round in the one i tried. BUT the 9 round from a 33 (or 27) w/a GLOCK brand +2 FP will add 2 rounds, for a illegal total of 11. the scherer +2 FP in .40 only adds 1 round in the 13 round preban 23 mag, and 1 in the 33 mag also. on a 26 9MM w/a 10 round cap, the GLOCK FP adds 2 here also, for a 12 round total, again, illegal - i then put all of them back on the correct mags before the ATF came rappelling into my living room and busted me........

i have some old pre ban sherer 13 round mags, bought in '95 or so, and mine have worked 100%, no probs, the 33 rounders, who knows, i dont have any of those

the GLOCK brand +2 floorplates are hard to find, i would like to get at least one or 2 if i could find 'em, at a reasnoble price, anyway, one guy at the gun show wanted $40 for a USED one, lol, had to pass on that one.

greg
 
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